Kyushu 2022 discussion (results)

[Seregost 130]

32 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Well, congratulations to Abi on his hatsu yusho - earned the hard way with 17 bouts!

That's the 1st tomoe-sen I've seen. I thought it was a great end to an unusually interesting basho and to an extraordinary year of ozumo; that's only the 2nd time there's ever been 6 different yusho winners.

The henka in the play-off bout was a little cheap (and bound to be divisive amongst fans), but Abi had already decisively beaten Takayasu in regulation and there was nothing cheap about his victory over Takakeisho. I'm also chuffed to bits for Shikoroyama-san, who was always one of my favourites when he was Terao.

Talking of henka, is that the 1st time Chiyoshoma has gone the full 15 days without pulling one?

Still on the subject of firsts, Terutsuyoshi's 0-15 is a scoreline I haven't seen before...

He did one in his bout against Takarafuji on day 10th. But now I'm not sure what is henka or not anymore...

[rhyen 1,822]

No Shikoroyama oyakata at the heya party.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0bU9WMbbNxSDzgV8LWGRWtWMGfD9j9yCzjZEwk73G3SmrsWcuJkxKjzGxovPxHaG9l&id=100031704922250

[Sumo_da 34]

I thought of Takakeisho being the favourite going into the play-off. But after watching it, it does make sense that Abi won this quite easily. He has the most stamina out of the three (even after 10 playoff matches he would still be going strong probably), he is the most cunning (henka or not, he is a mid-maegeshira not an ozeki, what "shame" is there really?) and after his regular bout against Takayasu you could see he brought his A-game today.    

[Old Shatterhand is dead 29]

4 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

His head hit Abi's upper arm/armpit and his neck went back.

Yes exactly! Intentionally or not but Takayasu was knocked down. Which is a kind of karma as he fought all along this basho with vicious kachi ages.

[Katooshu 3,176]

Speaking of the 0-15, another recent sekitori went zenpai, as Asanowaka finished 0-7, losing most matches haplessly. I don't know that he would've KK'd even in jonidan.

There didn't seem to be a particular part of his body troubling him, but he was totally powerless.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[rhyen 1,822]

6 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Speaking of the 0-15, another recent sekitori went zenpai, as Asanowaka finished 0-7, losing most matches haplessly. I don't know that he would've KK'd even in jonidan.

There didn't seem to be a particular part of his body troubling him, but he was totally powerless.

For Asanowaka & Takarafuji, it might be reduced stamina/cardio conditioning while suffering from Long Covid. 
it is easier to see in Takarafuji, since he has been missing for a huge portion of pre-basho training and Jungyo tours.

[Tenshinhan 1,599]

Weird tachi-ai between Takakeisho and Abi with the ozeki not anywhere near the dohyo with his hands.

[Morty 1,483]

2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Gutted for Takayasu. Still have hopes for a former stablemate Kisenosato-like redemption story after so many heartbreaking attempts. Aside from his basho-end failures, he's as strong as anyone in sumo right now. If today's defeat didn't destroy his will forever, as they say, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger...

Kise choked for so long that I eventually gave up hope for him and then when it actually happened it was a huge and pleasant surprise. I'm kind of at the same point with Takayasu, even going into the final day with a one win lead I felt no optimism (which was justified). I thought he'd broken his neck in that last bout and am glad he didn't have to mount the dohyo again. If he ever achieves a yusho I'll be overjoyed, but I have given up hope for it happening.

[Rocks 1,807]

3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

On the Japanese side they are calling it a henka, but get this-  Kitanofuji was adamant  in saying that Abi did a henka against Takakeishou as well.. Mainoumi tried to reason with him that it wasn't a henka, but Kitanofuji was relentless saying it was a henka as well and that he won the yusho doing 2 henkas.

Talk about ridiculous.

Of course they are, because it was a henka. It is ridiculous what he said but it's a reflection of how people are going to feel about this, which is anger and or disappointment.  Abi fans can be happy. Heck i really like Abi. You can argue Takayasu is a seasoned pro, former Ozeki, and should be able to handle a henka. He wasn't robbed and that henka is legal. You are right. But it doesn't change the fact that fans were robbed by his action. Robbed of a unique experience that comes around rarely. A playoff with the 2 or 3 best on that day going at it. Giving it their all.  A henka is fine for a Kisenosato that just tore his shoulder to bits. An injured guy.  A smaller guy giving away 4 inches and 50 KGs. It has no business in a playoff between two guys in good enough shape to be there. Or even 2 Ozeki in good health in a regular match. To use it then may achieve what the rikishi wants, but it's at the cost of the fans and not just the money they paid for their ticket.  More than anything fans, of any sport, want to see the best at their best. A henka from anyone isn't their best. It's a tacit admission they don't think they can win any other way.

[Gospodin 187]

Whatever Abi´s move was, it would have badly backfired if Takayasu weren´t knocked down more by chance than anything else.

[Gospodin 187]

3 hours ago, Chijanofuji said:

Neither have I and I've been watching Ozumo since 1995.

Apparently this is only the 5th time it happened. The last time was Itai in July, 1991:

 

Rikishi	1    >			Sum (total)
	Date	Rank	Record
Katsuragawa	1942.01	M17e	0-15	0
Kiyosegawa	1963.11	M11w	0-15	0
Sadanoumi	1988.03	M10w	0-15	0
Itai	1991.07	M14e	0-15	0
Terutsuyoshi	2022.11	M16e	0-15	0

Looks like Itai, an admitted yaocho participant and on his very last leg, held a fire sale for his Ws ! 

[Seiyashi 4,072]

24 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

4 hours ago, Chijanofuji said:

Neither have I and I've been watching Ozumo since 1995.

Apparently this is only the 5th time it happened. The last time was Itai in July, 1991:

 

Rikishi	1    >			Sum (total)
	Date	Rank	Record
Katsuragawa	1942.01	M17e	0-15	0
Kiyosegawa	1963.11	M11w	0-15	0
Sadanoumi	1988.03	M10w	0-15	0
Itai	1991.07	M14e	0-15	0
Terutsuyoshi	2022.11	M16e	0-15	0

Looks like Itai, an admitted yaocho participant and on his very last leg, held a fire sale for his Ws ! 

That Sadanoumi is the father of the present one, if I'm not wrong.

[Kashunowaka 300]

Some thoughts and impressions from Kyushu basho 2022.

I never thought I would say this, but Chiyoshoma is growing on me. His bout today against Endo was an example of solid sumo, winning by oshidashi for a change. A narrow make-koshi this time but he is holding his own in makuuchi.

Wakamotoharu has improved a lot this year. Five kachikoshi in makuuchi and ending the year with 10-5, 10-5 is impressive. Under more normal banzuke circumstances he would be komusubi next basho.

22-year old Oho's development is more expected. Having such a great first week meant that he was pitted against strong competition in the second week, including the aforementioned Wakamotoharu in an excellent bout. Let's hope that Oho doesn't emulate Kotoshoho, who has been one of the biggest disappointments since his makuuchi debut.

Kachikoshi for Midorifuji at M3? Thoroughly deserved, but I wonder if he will be "figured out" like Enho was and drop back to lower makuuchi.

Poor Terutsuyoshi.

Meisei is back where he belongs. Good enough to cause trouble for anyone on a good day but inconsistent. Hardly ozeki material, as opposed to Takanosho who I think is ozeki material but is currently far from the level he showed in May.

I liked Hiradoumi in juryo and was happy to see him do so well this basho.

Kotonowaka is already the guy with the worst banzuke luck ever: tied worst promotion from M6w/11-4 to M2w, followed by worst promotion from M2w/9-6 to M2e. He is sanyaku level in all but name, and perhaps he will finally get that komusubi slot now that Mitakeumi lost. Kotonowaka is solid but kind of boring IMHO, but if this style eventually takes him to ozeki I am all for it.

Time to start taking Tobizaru seriously, I guess. He has also reached a new level recently, which I prefer compared to the "flying monkey" style.

I didn't expect Nishikifuji to get kachikoshi at this rank, but with so many sanyaku M5w was actually well outside the joi-jin. And if your sumo works at M10, why not at M5. Next basho will be the real test for him.

Disappointing to see Hoshoryu be the sole leader after day 11, only to drop out of the yusho race three days later. Still 11-4, start of an ozeki run or just a fluke?

Regarding the yusho outcome I don't have much to add that hasn't been said, except that it was exciting, anticlimactic, heartbreaking, expected and well-deserved in that order.

[Seiyashi 4,072]

8 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

Disappointing to see Hoshoryu be the sole leader after day 11, only to drop out of the yusho race three days later. Still 11-4, start of an ozeki run or just a fluke?

Better rikishi than him have flubbed their first try (and second, and third, all the way to seventh ) at the cup, so while disappointing, it's not unusual. What's more important is that he seems to have gotten a lot more consistent early in the basho plus has visible improvement in his sumo, and his last act slump can, at least this time, be excused by nerves, That should, bar injury, mean a serious ōzeki challenge some time next year, even if not continuing in Hatsu 2023.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Seiyashi

[Koorifuu 913]

10 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

That Sadanoumi is the father of the present one, if I'm not wrong.

Surname does check out (Matsumura).

[themistyseas 236]

6 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I find it mildly unnerving how most of Herouth's Sumo Twitter community is excoriating him right now so badly when I don't think he'll pull a henka in his life ever again.

I'm a fan of her updates of course, but it's a community where people are constantly looking to blame someone or something and someone has to be always right and someone is always wrong. Despite the fact that sumo always has a winner and a loser, there is often grey area in the narrative. Case in point: the feelings that Abi may or may not have had on the dohyo in the aftermath of the Takayasu win. There are even folks on this thread people replying (including to your comment here) and saying that's not payback because fans were cheated. It can be both. It can also be neither. That is the beauty of the situation and of narrative. I tend to agree with you.

6 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

I'll be honest, we're talking about Takayasu's chances at ōzeki but I fear there's a small chance he retires. That's the second playoff he's lost in a year, and he wasn't even disappointed in the hanamichi - he was just crushed.

If anyone needed a word of encouragement in their ear the day after, Takayasu's arguably got the best senpai in the business. It's remarkable that Kisenosato had almost double the runners-up tallies before his first yusho and some collapses from equally as incredible positions. Takayasu's obviously had a more up and down career and has suffered in terms of form and fitness since his buddy's collapse and retirement but - while his oyakata could be a bit of a wild card - he seems to have a good support group around him.

[Akinomaki 40,021]

The most positive fact this basho: after 16 years again no sekitori went kyujo during the basho, last time was Haru 2006.  http://www.sanspo.com/article/20221127-BAMUHPKSNRJD3KU65RSTJDQ7YY/

A nice ending to a year with the most sekitori post-war going kyujo in one basho - Nagoya

Wakatakakage with makuuchi 57 wins has the 3rd worst result for a year with 6 basho, worst was Asanoyama with 55, then Hakuho with 56 - award pic

Edited November 27, 2022 by Akinomaki

[junsan 170]

Abi's yusho is thoroughly deserved.

[Fukuyamada 42]

Agreed. Forget about that one bout. Abi finished with 12-3, won a three-way playoff, sat out an entire tournament to injury in September, fought his way back up the banzuke and served his suspension before that. 

Fighting spirit!

[RabidJohn 1,715]

Having now seen Abi's yusho interview, I'm convinced of his redemption.

I mentioned on his return to makuuchi that he seemed altogether more serious, and I believe it's safe to say the daft lad is no more. He didn't have to say it at his moment of triumph, but he owned up to the trouble he's caused his oyakata, which impressed me no end.

[Jakusotsu 5,866]

I've been watching the replay again and again, and I still have no clue what prompted Takayasu to collapse like he did. Smashing his head at an opponents chest (who is already retreating) has been part of his daily routine for years.

Perhaps I need another camera angle than abema's.

[Sumo Spiffy 543]

14 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

I've been watching the replay again and again, and I still have no clue what prompted Takayasu to collapse like he did. Smashing his head at an opponents chest (who is already retreating) has been part of his daily routine for years.

Perhaps I need another camera angle than abema's.

Chris's video just popped, and he says (it's slightly out of frame) that Takayasu landed pretty hard on his head/neck when he somersaulted backwards off the dohyo in the first fight. He didn't seem messed up from that, but it's certainly plausible that he took a knock and the collision with Abi exacerbated it, as opposed to it purely being due to the impact in the second fight.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Sumo Spiffy

[Kotomiyama 165]

I am completely divided by the basho finish.

My head is happy to see Abi winning. I was convinced that his suspension would destroy his sumo career, but he has returned humble and focused. He is not the most charismatic rikishi, but he deserves the yusho nevertheless. His interview seems to support his history of redemption.

My heart is devastated to see Takayasu losing yet again in the deciding moment. I didn't see a concussion, I saw a powerful man mentally destroyed. In his first bout against Abi he seemed for a moment to be able to fulfill his (our) dream and then, a doubt, a moment of hesitation and a defeat. I would have never bet for him in the playoff, but my heart was with him like it has never been before with a rikishi. To no avail.

Just a remainder of how great sport, some in particular, can be.

[Reonito 1,380]

9 hours ago, Godango said:

In short, yes. I had another post a while ago where I looked at recent yokozuna promtion precedent, and 12-3 D is definitely a starting point

EDIT: Here's the post: 

 

12-3 D with a loss to a maegashira though...

[Jakusotsu 5,866]

And since nobody mentioned it: all that big talk about improved concussion protocol has been proven moot again since their only concern was to awkwardly pull Takayasu from the dohyo as quickly as possible with nobody actually helping in any way. Pathetic.