Kyushu 2022 discussion (results)

[Kintamayama 44,350]

Just now, Seiyashi said:

Balls. Any idea what for?

For srewing up and causing his Oyakata to lose face, for one. Mixed with tears of joy, prolly.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

If that doesn't count as a henka, the word has lost all meaning.

[Kintamayama 44,350]

1 minute ago, Katooshu said:

You're being ridiculous - Abi's already midair flying to the side when they connect.

Ridiculous? Is that how we're going to do this? Then I'm not playing.

[Katooshu 3,132]

This is when Yasu's head hits his chest - they hit because Yasu has already shifted his upper body in response to Abi, who is mid air, has both feet off the ground, and is so far to the side that we see the back of his arse. He lands squarely facing the gyoji. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[Benihana 1,901]

4 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

This is when Yasu's head hits his chest - Abi is mid air and so far to the side when he see the back of his arse. 

So what? There's solid contact, both feet on the ground. Mid-air looks different.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Benihana

[Katooshu 3,132]

10 minutes ago, Benihana said:

So what? There's solid contact.

So he's already flying to the side when they make contact, a clear henka rather than a head on tachiai followed by a shift. Never said there wasn't contact, just responding to the claim that it wasn't a henka. He already sent Takayasu flying off the dohyo earlier in the night then beat Takakeisho in straight up sumo, so I'm not even criticizing the move, but it was most certainly a henka.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[Katooshu 3,132]

6 minutes ago, Benihana said:

So what? There's solid contact, both feet on the ground. Mid-air looks different.

Both his feet aren't on the ground when Takayasu's head hit his chest, simply not true. His entire tachiai was a jump to the side.

People are reinventing terms if they say that's not a henka.

 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[Katooshu 3,132]

14 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

If that doesn't count as a henka, the word has lost all meaning.

Exactly 

[Koorifuu 886]

20 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

For srewing up and causing his Oyakata to lose face, for one. Mixed with tears of joy, prolly.

Seiyashi probably meant the hospitalization bit.

[Benihana 1,901]

3 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Both his feet aren't on the ground when Takayasu's head hit his chest, simply not true. His entire tachiai was a jump to the side.

People are reinventing terms if they say that's not a henka.

I've rewatched it multiple times in slowmotion, and if it's a henka, then it's a pretty light one. Yes, he twisted his body, but it was far from a blatant jump to the left. We've seen him do worse.

Whatever, i'm glad he won. He and Hoshoryu will be the next Ozekis.

[Katooshu 3,132]

Someone mentioned a basho or two ago that they thought Shikoroyama looked unwell........hope it's not too serious

[Katooshu 3,132]

35 minutes ago, Benihana said:

I've rewatched it multiple times in slowmotion, and if it's a henka, then it's a pretty light one. Yes, he twisted his body, but it was far from a blatant jump to the left. We've seen him do worse.

Whatever, i'm glad he won. He and Hoshoryu will be the next Ozekis.

He doesn't take an individual step on the tachiai, he jumps with both feet at the same time to his side, and when he lands he's facing a completely different direction. The contact happens as Abi is in the air and after Takayasu has already shifted in response to Abi's jump to the side. As mentioned, if that's not a henka the word is pretty much meaningless. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

Yeah, rewatching the YouTube video in slow motion, it does appear that Abi jumped to his left, and Takayasu tried to react to that and turned his own body into Abi's, where the contact with Abi's shoulder happened. 

Henka or not, doesn't detract from Abi's win. It's part of his repertoire and anyone facing him should be prepared for the possibility.

Saying this as an Abi fan who was rooting for Takayasu all the way.  

 

[Katooshu 3,132]

Abi fully earned it, winning 3 matches in the final day, including blasting out Takayasu (first match) and 'Keisho. The first match vs Yasu showed the best of both worlds, first using slick lateral movement with Takayasu on the charge, then coming forward to push him out. He's able to mix it up and he keeps you guessing, which is smart. Now it's a complete reinvention of terms to say what he pulled in the rematch is not a henka....but moving on from that

Hosh and Kotonowaka are really impressing me as the young talents lately. Hosh took it to a new level this basho and the final match vs Kiribayama was super skillful stuff - he's just so sharp when he's on his game. Although there's no dominant presence without a healthy Teru, there are some very talented youngsters who look ready to fill in the gaps being left by the previous guard. Oho had his best basho too, and though he again ended with several losses he showed significant improvement overall.

Going further down the rankings, 18-19 year-olds showed real promise too: Setonoumi going 5-2 at Ms25, Otsuji 6-1 at Ms24, Kototebakari 5-2 at Ms37, and Chiyotoora 4-3 at Ms19. 16-year-old Tanji also went KK at Sd32, and though he ended with 3 straight losses I think he's capable of reaching makushita before he turns 17.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[junsan 170]

Anybody with a heart should feel nothing but pity for poor Takayasu. That mental/emotional breakdown was just sad, sad to watch. His wife and parents must have been hysterical watching it live. Congratulations to Abi though, he did what he had to do.

Edited November 27, 2022 by junsan

[Godango 956]

In all honesty it really doesn't matter whether it was a henka or not, it's not like it's against the rules. His first match vs. Takayasu was a solid win as was his match against Takakeisho. Some of us will feel Abi v. Takayasu II was a bit cheap, some won't. 2 out of 3 were beyond reproach, he earned the yusho.

I still don't like him.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Godango

[Kintamayama 44,350]

On the Japanese side they are calling it a henka, but get this-  Kitanofuji was adamant  in saying that Abi did a henka against Takakeishou as well.. Mainoumi tried to reason with him that it wasn't a henka, but Kitanofuji was relentless saying it was a henka as well and that he won the yusho doing 2 henkas.

Talk about ridiculous.

Edited November 27, 2022 by Kintamayama

[Kishinoyama 582]

41 minutes ago, Godango said:

In all honesty it really doesn't matter whether it was a henka or not, it's not like it's against the rules. His first match vs. Takayasu was a solid win as was his match against Takakeisho. Some of us will feel Abi v. Takayasu II was a bit cheap, some won't. 2 out of 3 were beyond reproach, he earned the yusho.

I still don't like him.

I agree with all of this. 

If Takakeisho wins the next tournament I don’t see how they can deny him a Yokozuna promotion even if that would mean no Ozeki on the banzuke. He would have met the same requirements that were used in promoting Kakuryu, Kisenosato and Terunofuji.

[rhyen 1,809]

11 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

I agree with all of this. 

If Takakeisho wins the next tournament I don’t see how they can deny him a Yokozuna promotion even if that would mean no Ozeki on the banzuke. He would have met the same requirements that were used in promoting Kakuryu, Kisenosato and Terunofuji.

Kakuryu 14-1D, 14-1Y (preceded by Kisenosato 13-2JY)

Kisenosato most wins in a year, 14-1Y

Terunofuji 12-3Y, 14-1JY (zensho match on senshuraku).

we will see if the YDC will quibble about the yusho mark at 12-3, he might need a 14-1 like Terunofuji to quell any dissent. 
it will be comparable to Wakanohana III, 14-1Y, 12-3Y

Edited November 27, 2022 by rhyen

[Godango 956]

14-1 Y 100% they'll promote, 13-2 Y, probably, 12-3 Y, maybe. 

[RabidJohn 1,663]

Well, congratulations to Abi on his hatsu yusho - earned the hard way with 17 bouts!

That's the 1st tomoe-sen I've seen. I thought it was a great end to an unusually interesting basho and to an extraordinary year of ozumo; that's only the 2nd time there's ever been 6 different yusho winners.

The henka in the play-off bout was a little cheap (and bound to be divisive amongst fans), but Abi had already decisively beaten Takayasu in regulation and there was nothing cheap about his victory over Takakeisho. I'm also chuffed to bits for Shikoroyama-san, who was always one of my favourites when he was Terao.

Talking of henka, is that the 1st time Chiyoshoma has gone the full 15 days without pulling one?

Still on the subject of firsts, Terutsuyoshi's 0-15 is a scoreline I haven't seen before...

[Chijanofuji 110]

4 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

Still on the subject of firsts, Terutsuyoshi's 0-15 is a scoreline I haven't seen before...

Neither have I and I've been watching Ozumo since 1995.

Apparently this is only the 5th time it happened. The last time was Itai in July, 1991:

 

Rikishi	1    >			Sum (total)
	Date	Rank	Record
Katsuragawa	1942.01	M17e	0-15	0
Kiyosegawa	1963.11	M11w	0-15	0
Sadanoumi	1988.03	M10w	0-15	0
Itai	1991.07	M14e	0-15	0
Terutsuyoshi	2022.11	M16e	0-15	0

[Katooshu 3,132]

Never seen a makuuchi 0-15 before this, though I witnessed Oki's 0-15 in juryo and now always cheer for him in hope that he'll return one day for that first win....

What's worse, going 0-15 in your 1 juryo basho, or being Shiden and never even stepping on the dohyo for your juryo basho?

Edited November 27, 2022 by Katooshu

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

Gutted for Takayasu. Still have hopes for a former stablemate Kisenosato-like redemption story after so many heartbreaking attempts. Aside from his basho-end failures, he's as strong as anyone in sumo right now. If today's defeat didn't destroy his will forever, as they say, what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger...

[ryafuji 807]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

No henka-Takayasu's head would be nowhere near Abi's chest if it was a henka. Shifting at the tachiai is not an automatic henka, as ex- Yokozuna Harumafuji may tell you if you ever ask him.

I've seen a lot of HNHs. That was a H.