Sakura

Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

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4 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Perhaps I missed something, but there don't seem to be any comments on the Forum about Terunofuji's loss to Nishikigi today.  Somewhat surprising, I would say, but Nishikigi has been fighting somewhat better in this tournament (after 6 straight MKs).  Perhaps we won't be seeing Teru in the Top Division in March, but he's definitely coming!

If anyone, I believed it would be Nishikigi who could beat Terunofuji in the current basho.   He had a size and sumo style to give Terunofuji a run for zensho.  I was sad for Terunofuji's zensho to end but happy to see Nishikigi back in Makuuchi.

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23 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Sanspo mentions the possibility of Tokushoryu getting paired against Takakeisho on day 15 - I said I don't think they'll do this, so it should be quite likely they'll do it. Takakeisho is the highest ranked rikishi active in the basho and Tokushoryu the lowest ranked in makuuchi. Since the start of Showa, only 2 times a maegashira was in the final bout of the tournament, last time had the (first) yusho of m5 Tochiazuma I, Hatsu 1972, with a win over ozeki Kiyokuni.

The other maegashira in the final bout on senshuraku was just at the beginning of Showa, Wakahitachi, Haru 1927. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/01/26/kiji/20200125s00005000410000c.html

He was 5-5 and got paired against yokozuna Miyagiyama for day 11 - and lost. Miyagiyama got the yusho with a 10-1 - totally different system then, so not really a similar case.

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6 hours ago, code_number3 said:

Any chance for Prince of Sumo dating Princess of Japanese Emperor? (Laughing...)

If the princess were to marry Enho she would have to give up being a princess, unless of course she could settle for being Princess of Sumo.

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9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Tokushouryuu, beating Shoudai and now it's all up to him, still didn't know who he would be facing tomorrow as he left the venue: "I'm the lowest ranked rikishi on the banzuke. I can only go all out! If I had gone for the dashinage, he would have followed me. Man. I can only do clumsy sumo.. ( six tsukiotoshi in seven days, most of them at the edge..)  Still, I'm happy when I win and sad when I lose.

Wow! I like that self-awareness. He really said clumsy about himself? To think about it: I'm not a native english speaker but the word 'fluke' is the one, that describes my feelings about him the most... :D (Not this basho...) 

I'm really curious about him tomorrow, and even more in March... :-P

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3 hours ago, Dwale said:

The 33 wins in 3 basho thing is a guideline, not a hard rule (as shown quite emphatically in Takakeisho's ozeki run, and ozeki have been promoted with fewer than 33 wins in the past). That said, I don't see why they would promote him this time. He has had matches this basho where he looked like an ozeki, but he has had some where he looked rather bad.

Yes, I'd agree. I don't think Asanoyama needed a big number this basho given the Ozeki situation, even a 10 could have done it. But it would have to be a good 10 and this wasn't. He had no business losing to an injured 1-3 Abi and Tochinoshin. Never mind  Enho. Plus those losses, and when they occurred, meant he was basically never in the yusho race really. Good news is the same situation means he'll be in prime position for promotion next basho. If Goeido doesn't get his 10 wins 10 could do it for Asanaoyama. Otherwise 11. With 4 double digit basho in a row, a yusho, and the depletion of the Ozeki ranks I don't see how they deny him.

Speaking of Ozeki's, what a sad basho for Goeido and Takayasu. Goeido could get his 10 next basho, but I doubt it. This is the first basho, that he's finished, in over 2 years that he didn't get double digits or close to it. He can still put up that number if he's healthy. Takayasu on the other hand is done. He hasn't put up 3 double digit basho in a row since becoming Ozeki and I don't see him ever doing it again. But I don't expect him to just tumble down the banzuke either.

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28 minutes ago, Naganoyama said:

If the princess were to marry Enho she would have to give up being a princess, unless of course she could settle for being Princess of Sumo.

Won't happen anyways, because he's more into cougars ^^

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This basho was the saddest in a long time. I have a hunch that after the Olympics we'll lose both Yokozuna.

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Better they both retire than continue this kyujo farce that the whole scenario has become. But agreed, it's sad to see the end of an era.

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That farcical pairing took home half the yusho in 2019...  (Laughing...)

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This basho was actually very entertaining, all about it was unbelievable from start to finish and i don't know how anyone can not find this fun.

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16 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Other than maegashira yusho that were decided by Day 14, I wonder if there's ever been one that only had maegashira in the running on senshuraku.


Edit: Okay, two - Kongo/Aobajo Nagoya 1975 and Tagaryu/Konishiki Aki 1984.

And my oh my, I never realized just how many of those maegashira winners had wrapped it up by Day 14...

Wouldn't Kyokutenho's playoff with Tochiozan be the most recent?

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Hattorizakura has completed another six consecutive winless bashos.

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12 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

This basho was actually very entertaining, all about it was unbelievable from start to finish and i don't know how anyone can not find this fun.

I think it's been pretty "meh". It feels like most of the top guys have been exposed and embarrassed these past two weeks, and the leader is an M17 who didn't face anyone "important" until Day 14. One of his wins includes someone from Juryo...someone check sumodb and remind me the last time that's happened...

Kinda hard for me to be excited for what seems to be a pretty big mess of a basho.

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6 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

[Wait a minute. 10 total sekitori rikishi had 0-0-15 in Nagoya 2010.  Was this related to match fixing?]

Gambling scandal.  Buncha rikishi got a one basho suspension.  Kotomitsuki got booted while active Ozeki, Takatoriki as oyakata as well.  Covered in various periods of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_in_sumo

Edited by Gurowake
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4 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Gambling scandal.  Buncha rikishi got a one basho suspension.  Kotomitsuki got booted while active Ozeki, Takatoriki as oyakata as well.  Covered in various periods of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_in_sumo

Also Shohozan failed to admit to gambling and received a two basho suspension when evidence later came out.

Edited by Gurowake

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13 minutes ago, fultron said:

I think it's been pretty "meh". It feels like most of the top guys have been exposed and embarrassed these past two weeks, and the leader is an M17 who didn't face anyone "important" until Day 14. One of his wins includes someone from Juryo...someone check sumodb and remind me the last time that's happened...

Kinda hard for me to be excited for what seems to be a pretty big mess of a basho.

Chaos is beautiful, i love some Hakuho zensho but the chance of Tokushoryu or Shodai getting the yusho is simply awesome.
The era change is happening and it's not that i'm happy to see the greats fall but happy to see the new rise.

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59 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

This basho was actually very entertaining, all about it was unbelievable from start to finish and i don't know how anyone can not find this fun.

Yeah I don't really mind it chaotic as well. For me what I hate is when there is multiple bullshit going on, like henka every other bout, 80% hiki-waza (pulling techniques), gyoji acting like little tyrants and injuries destroying any chance of good sumo. Kyushu 2019 was the worst I remember. This time I have seen quite a few decent bouts and some great fighting spirit from some rikishi. Only one gyoji has annoyed me so far. And while the injuries are there, they haven't had as much impact as last time on the quality. And, of course, I am rooting for the humble, down-to-earth Tokushoryu every day. I'd rather he win it than Hakuho any day of the week.

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13 minutes ago, fultron said:

I think it's been pretty "meh". It feels like most of the top guys have been exposed and embarrassed these past two weeks, and the leader is an M17 who didn't face anyone "important" until Day 14. One of his wins includes someone from Juryo...someone check sumodb and remind me the last time that's happened...

Kinda hard for me to be excited for what seems to be a pretty big mess of a basho.

Last time a yusho winner faced a juryo was Takatoriki in Haru 2000

The fact that almost all top ranked rikishi did not compete at their "expected" level is not something to blame on hiramaku. Overall there is a brunch of entertaining bouts this basho

And in Natsu 1961 there was a lower hiramaku that won a yusho, facing and losing to a juryo wrestler, and only meeting one sanyaku, on senshuraku. Then M13 Sadanoyama ended up with a big rope around his belly

Rikishi do not pick up their opponents, and Tokushoryu was virtually bound to meet at least once a juryo opponent given his rank.

Even if he does not win the yusho, only the fact to appear in a kettei-sen whilst meeting a juryo opponent is equally remarkable (there is this Orochiyama/Nishikinada case in Natsu 1926 but it was in the east/west division time and it is unclear to me if there were kettei-sen as we know them at that time)

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18 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

Chaos is beautiful, i love some Hakuho zensho but the chance of Tokushoryu or Shodai getting the yusho is simply awesome.
The era change is happening and it's not that i'm happy to see the greats fall but happy to see the new rise.

6 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

Yeah I don't really mind it chaotic as well. For me what I hate is when there is multiple bullshit going on, like henka every other bout, 80% hiki-waza (pulling techniques), gyoji acting like little tyrants and injuries destroying any chance of good sumo. Kyushu 2019 was the worst I remember. This time I have seen quite a few decent bouts and some great fighting spirit from some rikishi. Only one gyoji has annoyed me so far. And while the injuries are there, they haven't had as much impact as last time on the quality. And, of course, I am rooting for the humble, down-to-earth Tokushoryu every day. I'd rather he win it than Hakuho any day of the week.

I know a few people on here have said that the quality of the sumo has dropped during this period, but I've got to say that I have enjoyed the intriguing possibilities of the last four years (starting from around Kotoshogiku's yusho) way more than I did the previous ten where it was just a question of how Asashoryu and then Hakuho would take the yusho (with occasional interventions by Harumafuji) rather than whether they would at all. I love watching the individual sumo of all three of those guys because they are so damn good, but they made the outcome of each basho pretty boring. The decline of Hakuho has made sumo more interesting. Chaos IS beautiful, give me more

 

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2 hours ago, bettega said:

This basho was the saddest in a long time. I have a hunch that after the Olympics we'll lose both Yokozuna.

Why do you say sad? Who are you sad for? I enjoy the change of guards! 

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On 22/01/2020 at 16:43, kumoryu said:

What is the record for the number of former Ozeki in Makuuchi at any one time? We could, just conceivably, have five next basho, if Terunofuji gets promoted, Goeido gets demoted, and Kotoshogiku survives, plus Tochinoshin and Takayasu.

So we now have four who are confirmed and theoretically Terunofuji could still join them, so can I ask again, what is the record?

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1 hour ago, specialweek 2 said:

Wouldn't Kyokutenho's playoff with Tochiozan be the most recent?

Ozeki Kisenosato was tied with them before the final day.
 

32 minutes ago, Nantonoyama said:

Even if he does not win the yusho, only the fact to appear in a kettei-sen whilst meeting a juryo opponent is equally remarkable (there is this Orochiyama/Nishikinada case in Natsu 1926 but it was in the east/west division time and it is unclear to me if there were kettei-sen as we know them at that time)

Playoffs were only introduced in 1947. Orochiyama won that yusho by virtue of holding the higher rank.

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4 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Ozeki Kisenosato was tied with them before the final day.

Sorry thought the original question was about senshuraku.

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A changing of the guard is inevitable but a 33 year old former college guy with 5 straight Tsukiotoshis who just returned from Juryo is not the future of sumo. He is one of the guards that will need changing. 

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5 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

A changing of the guard is inevitable but a 33 year old former college guy with 5 straight Tsukiotoshis who just returned from Juryo is not the future of sumo. He is one of the guards that will need changing. 

Tokushoryu is the chaos element that will happen quite often until the next era is settled, Tamawashi yusho is still fresh in my mind.

The changing of the guard is our 23 year old Ozeki Takakeisho and the bunch young rikishi with promising futures. Now we see Hokutofuji and Shodai have good potential, Enho can stand up for himself against the big guys and Asanoyama is doing his thing, Mitakeumi and Endo have their consistency problems while Yutakayama and Ryuden seem to have gotten it together this basho, even Kagayaki looked good. Abi and Meisei are injuried but i would put money that those two will be regulars at sanyaku, the future is bright and fresh with new talent.

 

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