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Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Terunofuji, missing out on a first Juryo zensho yusho since Tochinoshin's in Aki 2014: "I wanted to zensho if it was possible but what can I do.. I don't know if 14 wins will be enough to return to Makuuchi. I'd like to win tomorrow to make it possible."

Kotoshougiku, getting his 700th Makuuchi win and guaranteeing himself another basho in Makuuchi: "I'm happy. My feeling is regardless of dropping to Juryo or not, if I would want to go on, it would be OK."

Kiribayama, double digits as a Makuuchi newbie: "It's good. I was thinking if I would makekoshi it would be a bit.. I'd like to face tomorrow like business as usual.."

Hokutofuji, withstanding Kagayaki's pushing and thrusting, tying his own record of 11 Makuuchi wins: "My face hurts. I got married so I'm no longer alone so I feel a heavy sense of responsibility. I have to make that extra effort."

Mitakeumi, three straight losses, facing tomorrow with a 7-7 record: "All I can do is go about it as usual. It's OK for me to lose, as long as I do my own brand of sumo.."

Enhou, facing Daieishou who he beat last basho, unable to get inside: "I wanted to stop my opponent's movement but I was stopped instead. I was not patient enough.."

Shouhouzan, yoritaoshi'ing Goueidou while falling himself: "I though I had no choice but to move forward. At the end I did my best not to put my hand down, falling with my head.. I want to gambarize and move forward tomorrow as well."

Goueidou,  down to Sekiwake and now with nine losses: "I'm doing my best to use all my power. In any case, all I can do is concentrate  tomorrow ."

Takakeishou, losing to Asanoyama and no more yusho dreams this time, in front of the Imperial Family: "Today's bout was important for the future, so it's regretful.. I was telling myself not to do embarrassing sumo. I did my best but could not win. Tomorrow I'll be facing the bout as usual, but of course it's the final bout of the basho so I would like to win.."

Shoudai, losing to Tokushouryuu and dropping one win behind the leader: "I was over-eager to win. It's difficult. I'll face tomorrow as usual. Sorry, no more questions.. (grave, serious face)"

Tokushouryuu, beating Shoudai and now it's all up to him, still didn't know who he would be facing tomorrow as he left the venue: "I'm the lowest ranked rikishi on the banzuke. I can only go all out! If I had gone for the dashinage, he would have followed me. Man. I can only do clumsy sumo.. ( six tsukiotoshi in seven days, most of them at the edge..)  Still, I'm happy when I win and sad when I lose.. " 

Sakaigawa Oyakata, on the decision not to pit the Ozeki against each other in the final bout tomorrow: "It would have been fine for them to face each other, but Goueidou has that record, and there are no Yokozuna present"..

Edited by Kintamayama
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6 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Opponent pushes Tokushoryu to the bales then falls over. Haven't I seen this before?

Both these guys have been living on the bales.  So of course: "No, Shodai, you fool, don't try to push him out! ... Auggh, haven't you learned anything this basho?"

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Tokushoryu winning would not be the first maegashira yusho although its not a common occurrence. If Tokushoryu is unable to handle the step up in competition next basho he could be in an unusual situation. Maegashira who win the yusho pretty much always reach a higher rank in their career. The last time a maegashira won the yusho and never reached Komusubi or higher is Orochiyama. He won the yusho in may of 1926 and he never went beyond his career high rank of M1e. 

 

Tokushoryu is already 33 years old and he spent most of his careers outside of makuuchi. We'll have to see if this is part of a late career resurgence or just an anomaly caused by a breakdown at the top.

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8 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

The Enho match with the royal family:

Aaaaand, Enho blows his chance for a date with Aiko.

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14 minutes ago, YoungSumo said:

Tokushoryu winning would not be the first maegashira yusho although its not a common occurrence.

Shodai's won't be either.

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Some images of the royal family, for those interested but not interested enough to watch the video posted earlier.

PVO5iAg.jpg

A62EI6f.jpg

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Everybody facing the VIP seats area:

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A pan turned panorama inside the Kokugikan:

CkIEPmv.jpg

And finally, there they are:

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They even have a retainer.

Also worth including because he's the #1 dapper person in sumo, Kisenosato:

27eWhze.jpg

And a random favorite, Headpat Gaijin:

D4fxulh.jpg

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18 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:
33 minutes ago, YoungSumo said:

Tokushoryu winning would not be the first maegashira yusho although its not a common occurrence.

Shodai's won't be either.

I've checked, you're absolutely right.

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45 minutes ago, YoungSumo said:

Tokushoryu winning would not be the first maegashira yusho although its not a common occurrence. If Tokushoryu is unable to handle the step up in competition next basho he could be in an unusual situation. Maegashira who win the yusho pretty much always reach a higher rank in their career. The last time a maegashira won the yusho and never reached Komusubi or higher is Orochiyama. He won the yusho in may of 1926 and he never went beyond his career high rank of M1e. 

 

Tokushoryu is already 33 years old and he spent most of his careers outside of makuuchi. We'll have to see if this is part of a late career resurgence or just an anomaly caused by a breakdown at the top.

This seems self-evident. Maegashira who win yusho tend to make the sanyaku ranks as a direct result of the yusho. Most Maegashira who have won a championship got promoted to Komusubi or Sekiwake the next tournament. They didn’t all manage to stay though. Take Kotofuji, for example. He may be the closest to Tokushoryu in ‘recent’ history. From M13 he won Nagoya 1991 with a 14-1 record and got promoted to Komusubi where he lasted one basho (4-11). True, his career high was Sekiwake but that was one appearance before his yusho and was also a disastrous 4-11. Eight career wins in sanyaku is all he ever managed. Takatoriki was somewhat similar in that he’d had his sanyaku success before he won his yusho late in his career ranked at M14. Again, that led to a Komusubi makekoshi which was the last appearance he ever made in the titled ranks. Tagaryu was very similar too (one makekoshi at Sekiwake before the yusho, one makekoshi at Komusubi directly after it).

Tokushoryu won’t be getting into sanyaku but wherever he ends up it will be a career high and if he flops and never gets back again, it won’t be an original story.

Edit: It may be a career high. He’s been at M4 previously.

Edited by Eikokurai

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Some tenran-zumo data: the first in Reiwa, the first of the family as Tenno family. The Imperial couple (or only one of them?) was 7 times in the kokugikan as crown prince and princess, last Natsu 2017 (that is not tenran but tairan 台覧). For Aiko-sama (18) it is the 3rd time, the 2 earlier times were at age 4 and 5, at the Aki basho 2006 and 2007. (Masako-sama was not always there, when her husband watched - the data may be fuzzy)  Tenran-zumo started in 1955, it happened 40 times in Showa, 23 times in Heisei.  Nikkan  Yomiuri

Edited by Akinomaki
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Slightly overshadowed by his M17 compatriot but Kiribayama has really turned it around this basho.

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4 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Kiribayama has really turned it around this basho

Kiribayama is Chiyoshoma with all the nasty bad bits removed.

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57 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

This seems self-evident. Maegashira who win yusho tend to make the sanyaku ranks as a direct result of the yusho. Most Maegashira who have won a championship got promoted to Komusubi or Sekiwake the next tournament. They didn’t all manage to stay though. Take Kotofuji, for example. He may be the closest to Tokushoryu in ‘recent’ history. From M13 he won Nagoya 1991 with a 14-1 record and got promoted to Komusubi where he lasted one basho (4-11). True, his career high was Sekiwake but that was one appearance before his yusho and was also a disastrous 4-11. Eight career wins in sanyaku is all he ever managed. Takatoriki was somewhat similar in that he’d had his sanyaku success before he won his yusho late in his career ranked at M14. Again, that led to a Komusubi makekoshi which was the last appearance he ever made in the titled ranks. Tagaryu was very similar too (one makekoshi at Sekiwake before the yusho, one makekoshi at Komusubi directly after it).

Tokushoryu won’t be getting into sanyaku but wherever he ends up it will be a career high and if he flops and never gets back again, it won’t be an original story.

Edit: It may be a career high. He’s been at M4 previously.

Hope Tokushoryu reads that and realises he'd best enjoy his (possible) yusho and meteoric rise as it's all downhill from then on. 

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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Aaaaand, Enho blows his chance for a date with Aiko.

Any chance for Prince of Sumo dating Princess of Japanese Emperor? (Laughing...)

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51 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Kiribayama is Chiyoshoma with all the nasty bad bits removed.

Now that you mention this... noob question: what's the deal with Chiyoshoma? What are the bad bits that you speak of? Some rikishi do seem to dislike him from what I've seen.

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Perhaps I missed something, but there don't seem to be any comments on the Forum about Terunofuji's loss to Nishikigi today.  Somewhat surprising, I would say, but Nishikigi has been fighting somewhat better in this tournament (after 6 straight MKs).  Perhaps we won't be seeing Teru in the Top Division in March, but he's definitely coming!

While almost all eyes will be focused on the big Tokushoryu v. Takakeisho bout (can't wait to see how many kensho that final bout will attract), I will be quite interested to see how Naya will do in his bout against Akiseyama down in Makushita.  Both men have 3-3 records, so each has nothing to lose and everything to gain.  Not sure, however, if a KK will push Naya up into the Juryo Division in March (I fear not).  

Another key bout is Enho v. Kagayaki.  This is great matchup for day 15.  IIRC both men are schoolmates and have wrestled together before turning pro.  They have an even 1-1 record in the Top Division, so there is no clear sign who actually has the upper hand.  Kagayaki is already at 9-5 in this tournament, while Enho has surprised many with his KK at M5w.   In my opinion, a conditional Sansho would not be out of order for Enho, but there are so many other possibilities out there in this tournament, that Enho's performance may get overlooked.

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Hearing both English commentators on the NHK broadcast today say that there was no way that Tokushoryu would be able to pull off a tsukiotoshi against Shodai, and then witnessing yet another masterful tsukiotoshi by what news services are characterising as the "unfancied" [sic] and "unheralded" Tokushoryu made me feel a little better about all the predictions I've gotten wrong in the past. (Laughing...)

That's sumo for you.  Full of surprises!  Perhaps none more so than in this tournament!

Edited by Amamaniac

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Kotoshougiku, getting his 700th Makuuchi win and guaranteeing himself another basho in Makuuchi: "I'm happy. My feeling is regardless of dropping to Juryo or not, if I would want to go on, it would be OK."

 

A question to the respected board: aside from demotions due to injuries, who was the the last ex-Ozeki carrying on in the Juryo division ?

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Perhaps I missed something, but there don't seem to be any comments on the Forum about Terunofuji's loss to Nishikigi today. 

11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

A recovered Nishikigi can beat an ozeki any day - this was just the style of sumo for him

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

almost all eyes will be focused on the big Tokushoryu v. Takakeisho bout (can't wait to see how many kensho that final bout will attract),

Much less than a bout with Goeido would have had

Edited by Akinomaki

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Assuming Asanoyama wins tonight, he'll have 31 wins over 3 tournaments. Not good enough for promotion. But with his yusho just two tournaments before that, and with Goeidou dropping down to Sekiozeki, is there a chance of some weird flex that sees Asanoyama promoted? 

 

P.S.  Assuming, of course, that Goeidou doesn't get three wins tonight. 

Edited by Benevolance
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1 hour ago, Gospodin said:

A question to the respected board: aside from demotions due to injuries, who was the the last ex-Ozeki carrying on in the Juryo division ?

Didn't even have to investigate B-): http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=842

Edit: Unless he doesn't fit your criteria of "aside from demotions due to injuries".

Edited by Jakusotsu
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10 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Congrats to Tokushoryu on taking that all-important consecutive tsukiotoshi record. B-)

And guess how Tokushoryu won the last time he met Takakeisho... B-)

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1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

Assuming Asanoyama wins tonight, he'll have 31 wins over 3 tournaments. Not good enough for promotion. But with his yusho just two tournaments before that, and with Goeidou dropping down to Sekiozeki, is there a chance of some weird flex that sees Asanoyama promoted? 

 

P.S.  Assuming, of course, that Goeidou doesn't get three wins tonight. 

The 33 wins in 3 basho thing is a guideline, not a hard rule (as shown quite emphatically in Takakeisho's ozeki run, and ozeki have been promoted with fewer than 33 wins in the past). That said, I don't see why they would promote him this time. He has had matches this basho where he looked like an ozeki, but he has had some where he looked rather bad.

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1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Didn't even have to investigate B-): http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=842

Edit: Unless he doesn't fit your criteria of "aside from demotions due to injuries".

Yep, after a horrible 3-12 at M16 in Jan. 2013 he fell to J9, where he repeated with a 3-12 and went intai.

A previous injury (?) may have been responsible for his 0-0-15 in Nagoya 2010, which sent him from M9 to J2 for one basho.

[Wait a minute. 10 total sekitori rikishi had 0-0-15 in Nagoya 2010.  Was this related to match fixing?]

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OMG...

Edited by Otokonoyama

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