Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[dingo 1,160]

10 hours ago, rokudenashi said:

I vaguely remember that until the stock swap happened with ex-Chikubayama leaving his san’yo post early, there wasn’t much indication that Ishiura was going to stay with the NSK. Miyagino facilitated that whole deal by all reports, so I can imagine Magaki being seen as not fit to lead the stable simply based on his allegiance and a belief that he would be nothing more than a Medvedev to Miyagino’s Putin, if you will.

 

Had to like this post simply for the hilarious Medvedev/Putin parallel 

[Akinomaki 39,770]

6 hours ago, rhyen said:

I wonder if this is a subterfuge plan? 
can Hakuho and his deshi move to Oshima-beya (since he has close ties with Kyokutenho who is much older and will retire after a decade?) and then dump the excess deshi on another heya?

I rather think the excess rikishi will all quit. Oshima-beya seems to be the natural place for all to go, Tamagaki's heya.

On 07/03/2024 at 23:24, Akinomaki said:

Isegahama-ichimon on a near day will hold a general meeting and decide on the future of Miyagino-beya. Tamagaki revealed that there are rikishi who want to quit. Today Oshima-beya rikishi were there for degeiko, while the total seclusion of the heya to the outside continues. Pre-basho preparations are complete, they have trained properly, but motivation is a problem.

Miyagino is scheduled to be at the general meeting, Tamagaki in respect to going on as acting shisho gives a clear "no". Except for medical treatment and emergencies, house arrest for all continues, "Going to the basho and return, any eating out is forbidden" - as mentioned before, of course no senshuraku party.

[Kintamayama 44,350]

32 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

 

I guess he'll focus even more on those other businesses now, but why should he leave the NSK? He can do all this like before while staying there and get the extra salary, waiting till he gets to the better ranks again.

Because they won’t let him be. And he is not one to be caged.

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

Recalling Hakuho serving as the NSK's Dr.Jekyll to Asashoryu's Mr.Hyde, one can't help wondering what kind of fuzz the latter would have created as oyakata.

[Akinomaki 39,770]

Tamagaki spoke to the media today: "Nothing is decided yet. It's from good  cases to bad cases." "The number of people other heya can take on is limited" "It may be a in breakup manner" - there is also a plan to have Miyagino and the rikishi in separate heya: "Nearly all rikishi want to go on under Miyagino's guidance" "I hope those left behind won't be left out in the cold." o

o o o

[mugatake 33]

Does an ichimon have no obligation to protect those heya under its umbrella? My understanding, previously, had been that this was the case, but circumstances as described here seem rather different.

 

[Akinomaki 39,770]

Hakuho in the NSK has the same duties as before, mainly press club. His rank dropped from no. 74 to 83.

22 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

He will continue to be hanamichi guard at the basho. Shibatayama: "He has to silently do the assigned work. There are some tough  parts I guess, we need to have him get over that."

Longer version from Shibatayama: "For the moment he is separated from being shisho, but the deshi came relying on him. Silently doing the work properly is the way go get back to shisho as early as possible, isn't it? There are some tough  parts I guess, but we need to have him get over that."

Miyagino to the reporters before leaving in the car with Tamagaki: "From the day after tomorrow on again yoroshiku onegai shimasu"

http://www.zakzak.co.jp/article/20240309-QWQP5LBNIBPENIQYKOKXA22FCE/

Edited March 9 by Akinomaki

[Kintamayama 44,350]

2 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Hakuho in the NSK has the same duties as before, mainly press club. His rank dropped from no. 74 to 83.

Longer version from Shibatayama: "For the moment he is separated from being shisho, but the deshi came relying on him. Silently doing the work properly is the way go get back to shisho as early as possible, isn't it? There are some tough  parts I guess, but we need to have him get over that."

Miyagino to the reporters before leaving in the car with Tamagaki: "From the day after tomorrow on again yoroshiku onegai shimasu"

http://www.zakzak.co.jp/article/20240309-QWQP5LBNIBPENIQYKOKXA22FCE/

I don't believe either of them for a minute. They are saying what is expected of them to say. But, again, we shall see.

[Kintamayama 44,350]

1 hour ago, dingo said:

If the heya really closes that must be a huge setback for Hakuho.

It’s been decided-it closes after the basho and everyone disperses to other heyas of the Ichimon.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I don’t remember any scandal that resorted in the bringing in of an outside Oyakata to take over a heya, temporarily or not. This in itself is pretty humiliating for Hakuhou. I mean, they could have closed the heya outright like Kise in the past or just punished him with a demotion and a salary cut , but this?

I was reading up on the Kise-beya yakuza scandal yesterday, and its handling really doesn't seem too different from what's happening with Miyagino-beya here.

On 27/05/2010 at 12:08, Kintamayama said:

Kise Oyakata has been demoted by two ranks. His heya has been "put under the authority" of Dewanoumi Ichimon, effectively closing it down. According to the rijicho, the heya will be under Dewanoumi's supervision for Nagoya, but the intention is to close it down and disperse the rikishi among the various Ichimon heyas.

The main difference is just one of timing. That issue came to light right after the end of a tournament, so they had more time to make a decision and ultimately the closure and merger into Kitanoumi-beya happened before the next basho came around, without the need to appoint a stopgap caretaker like Tamagaki here.

Edited March 9 by Asashosakari

[ryafuji 807]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

It’s been decided-it closes after the basho and everyone disperses to other heyas of the Ichimon.

And yet Tamagaki has just been saying, "Nothing is decided yet...the number of people other heya can take on is limited." I'm confused.

[Ripe 70]

8 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I was reading up on the Kise-beya yakuza scandal yesterday, and its handling really doesn't seem too different from what's happening with Miyagino-beya here.

The main difference is just one of timing. That issue came to light right after the end of a tournament, so they had more time to make a decision and ultimately the closure and merger into Kitanoumi-beya happened before the next basho came around, without the need to appoint a stopgap caretaker like Tamagaki here.

If I understand it correctly, Kise-beya was shut down because of Kise oyakata deals with yakuza, not because of rikishi actions... was there ever before a heya that was shutdown because oyakata failed to properly oversee rikishi and their actions?

I know it was a different time, but Tokitsukaze wasn't shut down after oyakata beat rikishi to death! And he was still allowed to reopen heya two years later... whether Hakuho will be allowed to do that or not remains to be seen. Provided he doesn't retire soon.

Edited March 9 by Ripe

[rhyen 1,809]

27 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

And yet Tamagaki has just been saying, "Nothing is decided yet...the number of people other heya can take on is limited." I'm confused.

It is one of capacity, Isegahama is running at nearly full capacity (21 deshi - 6 sekitori = 15 in the common sleeping room), Oshima can probably take in around 8 maximum (7 deshi/no sekitori)

Asakayama just took in 3 new recruits and is busy integrating them (12 deshi in the sleeping room/3 max). The burning question is whether Asahiyama (7 deshi but he has a bigger heya outside the metro area?/10 possible) & Ajigawa want those excess (I can see Aminishiki declining since he is busy recruiting, even with 6 deshi)

miyagino has 16 non-sekitori deshi (including ex-sekitori). No heya has a spare common sleeping room/floor shared space to accommodate 16 drop in recruits.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

Which is why "Miyagino-beya is closing" is certainly still premature. There's a good chance now that there won't be a Miyagino-beya for Natsu, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the actual stable will continue intact at its present location, just under another name. The question is, is somebody going to be willing to take it on with all its baggage (and I would consider Hakuho to be part of the baggage)? Tamagaki clearly isn't, which is understandable given his advanced age. I wonder if the ichimon might even be inclined to accept willing candidates from outside? There's got to be somebody among the younger oyakata who has a good rapport with Hakuho (but still with enough professional distance, unlike ex-Ishiura) and the skills required of a shisho, and who isn't pencilled in as a near-term successor at his home stable...

That being said, IIRC in the case of the 25+ Kise guys who joined Kitanoumi-beya, the latter essentially converted a large storage area into additional living quarters, so the fact that no Isegahama-ichimon stable could accommodate all Miyagino people with its present room configuration doesn't necessarily mean that there's no single-heya transfer solution at all.

Edited March 9 by Asashosakari

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I don't believe either of them for a minute. They are saying what is expected of them to say. But, again, we shall see.

I think Shibatayama believes it, he seems to be a hakuho supporter. Whether he can convince the raging masses to agree with his statement, probably not.

[Kaitetsu 277]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

There's got to be somebody among the younger oyakata who has a good rapport with Hakuho

Kaisei XD (although idk if he would be a good strict oyakata)

[Yamanashi 3,724]

Pardon for the ignorance, but is the only-in-the Ichimon rule absolute?  Would the NSK make willing rikishi retire rather than find a heya outside of the ichimon to transfer to?

[Akinomaki 39,770]

Splitting the heya up won't work for most, if they are there for Hakuho - you can't get back to the core heya that some day may get independent again with Hakuho. If they close the heya, I expect around one third to quit.

[Seiyashi 4,071]

I cannot believe this is happening.

[Akinomaki 39,770]

Most articles for Tamagaki's comments focus on closing down the heya, Hochi on "That is not yet decided" and encouraging the rikishi o and Daily on "good and bad cases". o

Asahi reports that the Ichimon has already decided to transfer the rikishi to other heya and close the heya down and will report it to the NSK today o

[Adz_517 21]

I can’t imagine all this is going to encourage wrestlers to report any bullying- yes the perpetrator will be suitably removed but be prepared to have all your privileges removed too and your whole life turned upside down- for you and your friends. 

Personally I think a more appropriate punishment for Hokuseiho would’ve been a long ban, educational courses on how to behave around others and a good behaviour from now on or else contract. We all make stupid decisions and maybe took some things too far when we were young and everyone deserves a second chance. 
 

And Miyagino? Well,  to strip him the heya seems ludicrously harsh especially since I don’t think he was even stable master for the worst offences? He obviously has been neglecting the stable but again a last chance warning and demotion would’ve been enough, and I’m sure would’ve been the result if he had been anyone else but him. 

[Morning 74]

Hokuseiho's victims should not have to del with him again. He can get his second chance outside of sumo.

 

But, yes, the focus should be on supporting the other wrestlers and make sure it's not a punishment for them. The whole mess is going to be hard enough in them either way.

[dingo 1,160]

From what I've read this was not a single stupid decision by Hokuseiho, which could be written off as the foolishness of youth. Rather it seems he had a long history of malevolent behaviour, along with a feeling of impunity which was possibly reinforced by Miyagino's inaction. So I agree that his victims shouldn't have to deal with him again. There's been too many cases in the past where the solution has been to keep the perpetrator and let the victim leave sumo. 

[dada78641 884]

Yeah, it's a truly incredible situation and I honestly can't imagine that this is the ideal outcome for the victims of bullying. The end result is much too disruptive, to the point where future victims simply would not want to come forward and everybody involved is strongly motivated to solve things quietly and internally rather than through the proper channels. Which, of course, is not going to solve the problem, and will lead to the next Hokuseiho with a gigantic CV of abuse because it isn't stopped.

To me this solution feels like it's designed to make the NSK's life easier, not the lives of abused wrestlers.

[Jomangor 29]

On 09/03/2024 at 07:59, Kotomiyama said:

 I recently received a Hakuho's tegata. Now it rests in a cupboard and I wonder if one day will it hang on a wall of my house.

Frow, it is suspended.

Well, even if it were hanging it would still be suspended...