Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Asashosakari 18,786]

18 hours ago, Kaitetsu said:

Kaisei XD (although idk if he would be a good strict oyakata)

My vote would be for ex-Ikioi. Isenoumi-beya can spare his services, and the Miyagino wrestlers might not notice any difference.

[Jakusotsu 5,806]

43 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

My vote would be for ex-Ikioi. Isenoumi-beya can spare his services, and the Miyagino wrestlers might not notice any difference.

But isn't the whole point of the operation that they *should*?

[Leoben 121]

It's insane that there are known abusers in the kyokai who have beaten their wrestlers and done all sorts of crazy shit and many have faced less severe punishment than Hakuho.

[Akinomaki 39,769]

12 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Asahi reports that the Ichimon has already decided to transfer the rikishi to other heya and close the heya down and will report it to the NSK today o

It is more or less decided now, next the NSK executives will discuss it. The plan now is: the rikishi will go to Oshima-beya, Miyagano has to go to Isegahama - what nobody there wanted: seperation from Hakuho.

Continuation of the heya now no, but to allow a renewal in the future, the rikishi won't be split up.

http://www.47news.jp/news/10633976.html

Hakuho, unlike the rikishi, can change heya later.

Edited March 10 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki 39,769]

Back to work

in the press club

o o o

and on duty in the hall

o

 

[rhyen 1,809]

24 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

It is more or less decided now, next the NSK executives will discuss it. The plan now is: the rikishi will go to Oshima-beya, Miyagano has to to to Isegahama - what nobody there wanted: seperation from Hakuho.

Continuation of the heya now no, but to allow a renewal in the future, the rikishi won't be split up.

http://www.47news.jp/news/10633976.html

Hakuho, unlike the rikishi, can change heya later.

So the most successful Yokozuna has to go learn from one of the most successful heya right now?

[dingo 1,160]

They're keeping a window open for him, or at least pretending to do so. Let's see if Hakuho has the patience to wait for it. 

[Leoben 121]

1 minute ago, dingo said:

They're keeping a window open for him, or at least pretending to do so. Let's see if Hakuho has the patience to wait for it. 

I think it depends on what kind of stories we get in the media over the coming days/weeks. If we get leaks that outline a timeline and actions Hakuho must undertake to regain his position, then they really are leaving the door open for rehabilitation. If it's "at some point in the future we'll talk about it" they're inviting him to resign while trying to keep up appearances.

[junsan 170]

Curse that Hokuseiho and the Kintamayama jinx.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

1 hour ago, junsan said:

Curse that Hokuseiho and the Kintamayama jinx.

Kintamayama doesn't jinx anyone, he just tells it like it is and we don't listen

[Yarimotsu 522]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Back to work

in the press club

Those are some images of a man chewing on lemons. Or stung by a bee but not sure how, when, or if it's too late to say anything about it.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

the rikishi will go to Oshima-beya, Miyagano has to to to Isegahama

This will make nobody happy. More specifically, Oshima rikishi will have newcomers outnumbering them 2 to 1 dumped on their heads, disrupting existing hierarchy, organization and power balance.

[Akinomaki 39,769]

13 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

This will make nobody happy. More specifically, Oshima rikishi will have newcomers outnumbering them 2 to 1 dumped on their heads, disrupting existing hierarchy, organization and power balance.

Maybe one third will retire

[Itachiyama 107]

28 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

This will make nobody happy. More specifically, Oshima rikishi will have newcomers outnumbering them 2 to 1 dumped on their heads, disrupting existing hierarchy, organization and power balance.

well, this is the best solution as far as I can see it. Kyokutenho is like a brother to Hakuho and at the same time like an uncle for many Miyagino Rikishi. He will take care of them with friendly contact to Hakuho. Both Heya have been linked to each other for many years by dekeiko or private activities like parties. Also the Heya are just located by a short walk. Once the media are focusing on new or better "business" all this is calming down thus it's optimal to move to an own place again.

Edited March 10 by Itachiyama

[Asashosakari 18,786]

I wonder what's the latest status of the repeatedly delayed Oshima-beya move to Katsushika...

[rokudenashi 291]

11 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I wonder what's the latest status of the repeatedly delayed Oshima-beya move to Katsushika...

Funnily enough I was just searching the same thing. This article from late November is the most recent report I can find. They were supposed to move in October last year, but it got delayed - I guess the delays continue

Edit: that’s the same article as you posted back then….

Edited March 10 by rokudenashi

[themistyseas 226]

It really seems like the best case scenario to me to send Hakuho over to Isegahama. Especially from the point of view of his ability to re-branch at some point in the near future. Isegahama himself only has 7 more basho after this one, at which point someone new is going to need to assume control of that heya, making it a logical break point anyway. Hakuho reporting to Isegahama makes a ton of sense in terms of him getting a year to learn at close quarters off one of the most senior figures in the Kyokai, who's also survived/thrived despite some internal issues. Hakuho reporting to Terunofuji or Takarafuji doesn't make a ton of sense. So if he's able to step back out on his own next July, it ends up being a more lenient punishment than the Kise example.

And does it really stop his scouting & recruiting? "Here, come work under not under not one but two Yokozuna, in a stable that also has the only active Yokozuna." Even the innovators at Nishonoseki beya can't match that kind of pitch.

9 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

My vote would be for ex-Ikioi. Isenoumi-beya can spare his services, and the Miyagino wrestlers might not notice any difference.

Honestly I absolutely love this solution however unlikely it may be. I seem to remember he has spoken in the past about wanting to run his own heya, the chances of that at present where he's at seem quite small, and it moves an Isenoumi name back to Isegahama ichimon after the Takashima theft.

Sorry for using shikona and kabu interchangeably, I'm sure that's annoying to people like using metric and imperial in the same sentence.

[Akinomaki 39,769]

The interesting part will be, Hakuho scouting - if he scouts for Isegahama, those are lost for him, he can't take them with him. If he scouts for where his rikishi are, he may be rebuked by Isegahama and the NSK, and the deshi won't be guided by him and may have to wait for years till they become his deshi.

[Akinomaki 39,769]

40 minutes ago, Itachiyama said:

well, this is the best solution as far as I can see it. Kyokutenho is like a brother to Hakuho and at the same time like an uncle for many Miyagino Rikishi. He will take care of them with friendly contact to Hakuho. Both Heya have been linked to each other for many years by dekeiko or private activities like parties. Also the Heya are just located by a short walk. Once the media are focusing on new or better "business" all this is calming down thus it's optimal to move to an own place again.

This is no solution, this is boosting up the problem. This is simply a penalty, detention as schooling: Hakuho has nothing to learn, neither from Isegahama, nor from anybody else. He learns enough from his own mistakes.

[Ripe 70]

Yeah, I don't really see him scouting... or doing anything more than necessary.

I think Kintamayama is right that it will take an absolute miracle to have him stay... he'll probably use next few months to solidify his business and then resign and leave to absolute delight and happiness of NSK and his fellow oyakata who never even wanted him to become one of them. Which is why they eliminated Ichidai-Toshiyori, why they had him sign that agreement before allowing him to become Magaki (which I don't think any other oyakata had to do) and why they're shutting down his heya at first possible reason even tho in the past they allowed heya to remain after much, much bigger scandals (Tokitsukaze comes to mind... if there was ever a reason to shut down heya it's after oyakata beat rikishi to death!).

[Itachiyama 107]

3 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

This is no solution, this is boosting up the problem. This is simply a penalty, detention as schooling: Hakuho has nothing to learn, neither from Isegahama, nor from anybody else. He learns enough from his own mistakes.

The best solution within the already decided penalty!

[Asashosakari 18,786]

29 minutes ago, Ripe said:

Yeah, I don't really see him scouting... or doing anything more than necessary.

I think Kintamayama is right that it will take an absolute miracle to have him stay... he'll probably use next few months to solidify his business and then resign and leave to absolute delight and happiness of NSK and his fellow oyakata who never even wanted him to become one of them. Which is why they eliminated Ichidai-Toshiyori, why they had him sign that agreement before allowing him to become Magaki (which I don't think any other oyakata had to do) and why they're shutting down his heya at first possible reason even tho in the past they allowed heya to remain after much, much bigger scandals (Tokitsukaze comes to mind... if there was ever a reason to shut down heya it's after oyakata beat rikishi to death!).

Can people please just stop trying to score points off of Tokitaizan's death? That was almost 20 years ago, and the way the Kyokai is addressing scandals has evolved significantly since then. It's frankly rather unseemly to try to imply that their handling back then constitutes some kind of bizarre gold standard that shouldn't be exceeded by penalties in later scandals. Or do you actually believe that a case like that would be treated the same way today?

That aside, I find it rather surreal how some people keep trying to switch offender and victim. The facts: The Kyokai brass were highly suspicious that Hakuho would prove troublesome as oyakata, and they made him sign that pledge to express their reservations in the most public manner possible. Inside of just three years, Hakuho managed to prove them spectacularly correct. But somehow the Kyokai's approach is the problem here? Did the pledge-signing make him more likely to be a bad oyakata or something? If so, he should probably be dismissed outright. But I guess that's not where that weird line of argument is meant to lead to...

Edited March 10 by Asashosakari

[Ripe 70]

Yes, the way Kyokai addresses the scandals evolved, but sadly not much changed since we're still having situations like this almost 20 years later. Because if some of the things that were reported about Hokuseiho's behavior are true then it's a miracle nobody ended up seriously injured or possibly even killed.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with shutting down Miyagino heya and sending all the rikishi to another stable. They might have also broke them up and spread them over several heya but that is minor detail. But that is only if this becomes gold standard for dealing with similar situations in the future (rikishi bullying others and oyakata doing nothing about it)... sadly, I don't believe that will be the case.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

The NSK has had to evolve with how they have dealt with these issues. In the case of Tokitsukaze, the stablemaster at the same time was expelled from the heya, plus he and the perpetrators were criminally charged and sentenced. And, another wrestler's career was cut short by him retiring to take over the stable. The NSK was likely not wanting to shut down a heya with such as long and storied history like Tokitsukaze. With other heya we have seen how this has changed. Nakagawa did close down after the stablemaster was found to have mistreated his wrestlers. But I get how people may see this treatment as being hypocritical when heyas like Shibatayama and Kasugano seem to have no repercussions when it was found how they had mistreated their wrestlers. I personally don't get how Shibatayama can stay on the board, but he has likely forged many alliances and is also good at his job, although at the expense of the success of his wrestlers. It goes without saying that the ways that things have had to evolve are not perfect, but nothing ever is

[Benihana 1,901]

On 08/03/2024 at 09:10, Akinomaki said:

Latest Weekly Post rumour claims Hakuho plans to establish a new NSK - that sounds like an interesting idea

Should appear in more readable format in a few days

Sounds less and less LOL. Hakuho is popular, somewhat wealthy, well connected, hasn't the longest fuse...and they poke him. Then they stop for a short moment and start poking again, this time harder. How many pokes will it take until he snaps and how realistic would it be? Less strict (housing) rules, sponsor deals and TV ads for more money. Isn't it always about the money? He could call it XV Sumo...