Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Morty 1,426]

So am I correct in thinking that Hak has the Geek tomorrow, then Godo then Kise? And conversely Kise has Godo tomorrow, and Hak last? But who does he have Saturday? He's already faced both Sekiwake, and neither Komosubi is an option, so who? Takekaze, or do they go for someone lower on the Banzuke but with a better record like Ichinojo?

 

[ryafuji 771]

6 hours ago, Rocks said:

Can someone drop from j5 to makushita? because Kitataiki deserves it after this basho.

If he ends up 2-13 and there's a promotable makushita then it's certainly possible, yes.

[Akaoni 1]

5 hours ago, Jojo said:

Here you go....

Ooops the link in the thread is dead (should've known not to trust Kintamayama :-D), here is a working one....

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20151018075149/http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0002157910

 

 

Thanks for the clarification.  I surmised as much, just didn't know what the formal rule was.  Cheers!

[Jakusotsu 5,006]

1 hour ago, Morty said:

So am I correct in thinking that Hak has the Geek tomorrow, then Godo then Kise? And conversely Kise has Godo tomorrow, and Hak last? But who does he have Saturday?

My money is on Takanoiwa.

[Bumpkin 438]

5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Kise almost lost again.  In the last 3 or so matches, Kise wasn't very impressive IMO.  

Could Takanoiwa or Ichinojo surprise Kise, and even take the yusho cup?   I hope not but both of them look solid so far.  

Mitakeumi at M1w with 9-3 record already may end up being M1e in the next basho regardless of what he does in the next 3 matches.  Bummer.

 

 

No. Kw Tochinoshin (0-6-9) will be demoted. Mitakeumi will be promoted.

[Bumpkin 438]

52 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

My money is on Takanoiwa.

If they do it by rank, than it will be M5e Takekaze. 

[Morningstar 115]

13 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

No. Kw Tochinoshin (0-6-9) will be demoted. Mitakeumi will be promoted.

Not necessarily. There are many scenarios where he is not promoted. For example: Kotoshogiku will take Shodai's Sekiwake slot. Then Shodai will take Tochinoshin's Komusubi slot as long as he does not lose more than once. Thus leaving no open spot for Mitakeumi.

[Rocks 1,750]

I think Kise will have Takakaze on Saturday. I think the only way he'll see Takanoiwa or Ichinojo is a playoff or if he loses to Goeido, and Kise won't be losing to Goeido,

[Rocks 1,750]

The interesting match tomorrow will be Hak - Giku. Giku can't help himself but he can help his best bud Kise. Hak will be over confident and looking for a quick kill considering Giku has been lousy and just lost his rank. Hak will come out guns blazing. Does Giku ever henka?

[serge_gva 52]

20 minutes ago, Morningstar said:

Not necessarily. There are many scenarios where he is not promoted. For example: Kotoshogiku will take Shodai's Sekiwake slot. Then Shodai will take Tochinoshin's Komusubi slot as long as he does not lose more than once. Thus leaving no open spot for Mitakeumi.

It seems that a Sekiwake could be demoted directly to Maegashira even with a 7-8 record. It happend 4 times in 1991 and 1992 (but maybe the rule was different in these cases?).
To the contrary, only one M1 rikishi stayed at M1 with a 9-6 record in 30 years (Toshinoshin Natsu 2015).
And (according to the database and if my query is right) a 10-5 rikishi at M1 never get stucked at M1 in sumo history. Then it looks like Mitakeumi needs only one more win to become Komusubi.
 

Edited January 19, 2017 by serge_gva

[Rocks 1,750]

13 minutes ago, serge_gva said:

It seems that a Sekiwake could be demoted directly to Maegashira even with a 7-8 record. It happend 4 times in 1991 and 1992 (but maybe the rule was different in these cases?).
To the contrary, only one M1 rikishi stayed at M1 with a 9-6 record in 30 years (Toshinoshin Natsu 2015).
And (according to the database and if my query is right) a 10-5 rikishi at M1 never get stucked at M1 in sumo history. Then it looks like Mitakeumi needs only one more win to become Komusubi.
 

Ahh, but you've hit upon the key point. The Komusubi spot that is available is Toshinoshin's and as we all know any promotion/demotion involving Toshinoshin has a high probability of being messed up. So you never know.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Rocks

[Dwale 419]

Man, you've gotta give it to Ikioi, you could see on his face he was giving it absolutely everything. Kisenosato able to keep the pressure on and wear him down. Good match and shows how Kise can overwhelm his opponents...more of a riptide than a crashing wave in this case.

[Bumpkin 438]

M1w Mitakeumi (9-3) will be promoted to at least Komusubi in March. Even if he finishes 9-6 and Shodai finishes 7-8. He is the future and they will promote him.

[d_golem 213]

Can someone tell if palm strikes to the head/face is legal like what Kinjo did to Maeta today? If it's that effective, why don't people use it more instead of slaps and chest thrusts?

[Rocks 1,750]

6 minutes ago, d_golem said:

Can someone tell if palm strikes to the head/face is legal like what Kinjo did to Maeta today? If it's that effective, why don't people use it more instead of slaps and chest thrusts?

It's legal as long as it's open hand. Just look at the whoopin' Takanoiwa laid on Nishikigi last night. You see it attempted a lot, along with a lot of misses. But even when it lands unless it's got a lot of power behind it and really connects it isn't that effective and if it doesn't work can put you out of position. Kinjo's hit was both hands so that's gotta hurt but to tell the truth I think Maeta milked it quite a bit. 

[Dapeng 231]

19 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

M1w Mitakeumi (9-3) will be promoted to at least Komusubi in March. Even if he finishes 9-6 and Shodai finishes 7-8. He is the future and they will promote him.

They just need to create an extra (the third) komusubi position. I remember in one basho there were four komusubi.

[Dwale 419]

I would be remiss if I didn't mention Kotoyuki's signature "manatee torpedo" technique, which he honed long ago and continues to employ.  

Chiyoshoma and Sokukokurai was entertaining, Takekaze's eye still a finger-magnet (but otherwise doing so well!), and Mitakeumi still in blazing anime protagonist mode. Apart from my main man Osunaarashi being hurt, I'm finding this an especially entertaining basho. 

[Dapeng 231]

35 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Ahh, but you've hit upon the key point. The Komusubi spot that is available is Toshinoshin's and as we all know any promotion/demotion involving Toshinoshin has a high probability of being messed up. So you never know.

Do you mean Tochinoshin will be tochinoshined all the way down to the makushiri or even into juryo? 

[YoungSumo 93]

Let's say Kise and Hak both win their next two bouts and then Hakuho beats Kisenosato on the last day, would Hakuho win the yusho based on head to head with Kise (assuming Ichinojo and Takanoiwa don't win out) or would there be a rematch in the form of a play-off?

[Rocks 1,750]

1 match playoff.

[RabidJohn 1,274]

10 minutes ago, YoungSumo said:

Let's say Kise and Hak both win their next two bouts and then Hakuho beats Kisenosato on the last day, would Hakuho win the yusho based on head to head with Kise (assuming Ichinojo and Takanoiwa don't win out) or would there be a rematch in the form of a play-off?

Wow, you are new to this, aren't you? Still, you've come to the right place to get questions like that thoroughly answered, and asking is the right thing to do!

In your scenario the regulation basho ends in a draw and there's a play-off between them to decide the yusho winner. It's called a kettei-sen and it's not a regulation bout, so it doesn't count towards win-loss tallies and the result will be recorded as 13-2-Y for the winner and 13-2-D for the loser.

Kettei-sen involve all rikishi tied for the win, so there can also be 3, 4 or more (happens more often in the lower divisions). I saw a 3-way makuuchi kettei-sen between Y Hokutoumi, O Konishiki and O Kirishima many years ago, and it was a winner-stays-on job until 1 had beaten the other 2 on the trot. There were 4 extra bouts before Hokutoumi clinched it.

"That bugger's going off-topic again!" I can almost hear the moderators thinking, but I'm not because I'm starting to think Hak winning out and Kise only losing to Hak is an increasingly plausible scenario, and we could even see a multi-way tie involving Takanoiwa or Ichinojo.

[YoungSumo 93]

Just now, RabidJohn said:

Wow, you are new to this, aren't you? Still, you've come to the right place to get questions like that thoroughly answered, and asking is the right thing to do!

In your scenario the regulation basho ends in a draw and there's a play-off between them to decide the yusho winner. It's called a kettei-sen and it's not a regulation bout, so it doesn't count towards win-loss tallies and the result will be recorded as 13-2-Y for the winner and 13-2-D for the loser.

Kettei-sen involve all rikishi tied for the win, so there can also be 3, 4 or more (happens more often in the lower divisions). I saw a 3-way makuuchi kettei-sen between Y Hokutoumi, O Konishiki and O Kirishima many years ago, and it was a winner-stays-on job until 1 had beaten the other 2 on the trot. There were 4 extra bouts before Hokutoumi clinched it.

"That bugger's going off-topic again!" I can almost hear the moderators thinking, but I'm not because I'm starting to think Hak winning out and Kise only losing to Hak is an increasingly plausible scenario, and we could even see a multi-way tie involving Takanoiwa or Ichinojo.

I know how the play-offs work but I wondered if a head to head match on the last day could replace a play-off in that specific scenario. Kind of dumb since a head to head on another day also wouldn't eliminate a play-off but I was a bit unsure of it.

[Benihana 1,751]

Even with a 9-6 they won't dare not to promote Mitakeumi, end of story.

Aminishiki finally got his MK. The old man and the knees...he still does a good job and with some more health points he could struggle back to makuuchi, but sadly this isn't a computer game and you can't just hand him a magic healing potion. Ganbatte!

 

[808morgan 793]

2 hours ago, Benihana said:

Even with a 9-6 they won't dare not to promote Mitakeumi, end of story.

Aminishiki finally got his MK. The old man and the knees...he still does a good job and with some more health points he could struggle back to makuuchi, but sadly this isn't a computer game and you can't just hand him a magic healing potion. Ganbatte!

 

Yeah he and geek at the same time... I will miss a decent Aminishiki, I still wonder if Toyonoshima will get back up.

[dingo 690]

I'm glad that Kagayaki seems to have finally settled in in Makuuchi. He seems to be quite comfortable now with the level of opponents he's facing now. I'm not sure he has joi level sumo in him, but lower to middle maegashira is not a struggle for him anymore.