Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[Yubinhaad 11,319]

57 minutes ago, ScreechingOwl said:

Takanoiwa's kinboshi is the first from a double digit maegashira rank since Ichinojo got one at Aki 2014. It's a very rare occurrence. 

Rarer still is a Day 14 kinboshi - this is only the fifth to be won, and the first one in the Ryogoku Kokugikan. The last Day 14 kinboshi was won by Konishiki in 1984 Aki, the final basho in the Kuramae Kokugikan.

I am absolutely delighted for Kisenosato, it's been a long time coming but he's finally done. Now the pressure is off I wonder if this is just the start.

By the way, if you're hearing a high-pitched whistling noise, don't worry - it's just the sound of the steam billowing out of Mike's ears. 

[fwuzzle23 65]

45 minutes ago, Rigel said:

I do agree that it'll be a big mystery if Hakuho wins tomorrow, but what if Kisenosato beats Hakuho? More than that, what if he beats him *convincingly*? If that were to happen, I think we'll have 4 yokozuna in March.

Its easy to think that this final match doesnt matter, but I think it matters a hell of a lot for Kise;

I don't think beating Hakuho, convincingly or otherwise, would be enough. He only faced (or faces, since it hasn't happened yet) a single yokozuna this basho, and the two ozeki he faced are currently 4-10. A lot of things outside of his own control had to go his way for him to yusho. And regardless of anything that happened this basho, his jun-yusho from November where he was two wins off the pace still counts against him. He's going to have to yusho/doten in March to get a promotion.

With that said, the Kise-Hak match will still be important, if for no other reason than to put Kisenosato in a better position for his March tsunatori run.

[Arn 24]

And Kisenosato does it! I am happy for him.

Now I really hope he goes out and defeats Hakuho tomorrow and gets promoted to Yokozuna. That and this yusho would probably make wonders for his confidence it the situations he has had problems with before.

I also think he has clearly shown over the last year the he has taken another step. With the other top guys being on decline and with Kisenosato being injury free and still on the rise I think the next couple of years could be very interesting for him. Maybe he can even become the dominant yokuzuna for a few years. History might not look at him as the choker with all those yun-yushos, but as the guy who was able to presevere and take the final step.

If  Kisenosato indeed does become yokuzuna it will also probably quicken the downfall of one or several of the other yokuzunas. Kakuryu really messed it up for himself this basho.

[YoungSumo 93]

Kisenosato with a Yusho. I can still hardly believe it, he deserved it so much after being such a consistent contender for years. I don't think he will be promoted to Yokozuna even if he beats Hakuho on the last day. His 12-3 J with two wins behind Kakuryu can't really be seen as equivalent to a Yusho. A Yusho Doten or Jun-Yusho with only 1 win behind next basho should definitely be enough though. If the likes of Harumafuji, Kakuryu and Goeido are healed up and ready to go it could definitely prove difficult but not impossible. 

[WAKATAKE 2,562]

All I can say is congrats to Kise, he worked hard and valiantly to get to this point. I will be of the opinion that he needs another yusho to show that he's ready for that yokozuna promotion, but at least he's finally joined the yusho club.

[Atenzan 1,074]

Congratulations to Kisenosato for his yusho and for ditching the unfortunate record of most jun-yushos without a yusho. Futahaguro will take that back. 

Also, Kisenosato seemed to me to be more relaxed and focused when he didn't get the hidari-shitate, rather than being like a deer in the headlights. More than a one trick pony this time around. 

As for whether he deserves the tsuna, he does not. Not immediately, anyway. We'll know after the Haru basho ends. 

[ryafuji 802]

Either the Kyokai or the YDC should come out right now and say that Kise will be promoted if he beats Hakuho tomorrow. Then we'll really know if he can handle pressure! 

[Stelios 30]

I remember when Kotooshu got his yusho that there was a discussion whether or not he would deserve the tsuna if he won a second one immediately after that. The general consensus was that there was no other choice if and only if the second one was zensho and the argument was his very bad sumo in the previous year. Now we have an ozeki with the best record in 2016 and we are still discussing whether he deserves to become a yokozuna. We choose to take only the previous tournament, consider a jun-yusho as negative to cry out loud, and ignore his performance before that. I see a major inconsistency here. We either give normally more emphasis on the last two tournaments and take into consideration the previous performance, or we ignore altogether everything before the last two tournaments. We cannot have it both ways. Ignoring the previous good performance but emphasizing the previous bad performance. Kisenosato well deserves to become a yokozuna and I dare a prediction: we will see several yushos after this one.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Stelios

[Naganoyama 5,750]

I think Kisenosato will win more yusho now that the pressure of winning the first yusho has been lifted. For some people it is a bigger hurdle than for others.

[Shokikogi 33]

Congratulations to Kisenosato!
I´m not a fan, but since a few basho I was rooting for him. Well deserved! I´m happy, that this unbelievable pressure is off from him. He´s surely much happier ^^

[Dwale 419]

Big congratulations to Kisenosato. Phew. Finally! Yeah, the stars had to align, but they did. Good for him, good for the fans. Yay.

But congratulations to Ikioi for getting KK as a joi, he's been working his ass off on the dohyo all this time. 

I do wonder how they're going to handle the incoming traffic jam at sekiwake...

[mikawa 1,794]

Congratulations Kisenosato! It's been a long time coming, but you finally did it! Next up - Yokozuna?

[Morty 1,460]

Finally! I have been a Kise fan since I came back to sumo in 2009. There is no question in my mind that he is Yok level and has been for the last four years - all he needed was a yusho to prove it. In my opinion (which counts for nought, I know, but I have shown this statistically for the past few years) his highly consistent performance since becoming an Ozeki has been above standard Ozeki level and more at a Yok level, but he has never been able to crack that Yusho. Take Hak out of the equation and I reckon he would have three or four by now. He deserves it, give him the rope!

Very happy for him, his reaction after Hak lost had me tearing up a bit myself:).

Edited January 21, 2017 by Morty

[WAKATAKE 2,562]

I most certainly hope that they give Takanoiwa a sansho tomorrow, he deserves it.

[Akinomaki 38,563]

Before and during the whole basho the main theme in the press was: "Kisenosato is on a yokozuna run now!" - if he wins against Hakuho convincingly, he'll have it. Also the YDC top has hinted as that already yesterday. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170120/sum17012021210018-n1.html

What was said after last basho is meaningless.

[RabidJohn 1,564]

Wow, 3 Japanese hatsu yusho in the last 7 basho - I think it's the start of a trend!

Not yet sure Kise has stepped up so much as just remained healthy while the 3 yoks have declined, but if he can achieve his first 14-1 tomorrow I'll have to start changing my mind. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him get his tsuna if he beats Hak, and if it were up to me I wouldn't argue against it. Mainly I'm absolutely chuffed to bits for Kise, just as thrilled as I was for Kotoshogiku and Goeido - the commentator's reaction actually brought a lump to my throat.

A trend that appears to have ended is the multiple shin-sanyaku we saw on just about each banzuke of the last year. It's going to get a bit crowded with regulars in there in March, particularly if Mitakeumi and Takayasu can both clinch their 11th wins tomorrow.

The yusho may be decided, but there's still a lot to come from zenshuraku, like who's getting the sansho? Multiple candidates, but Mita's surely up for the outstanding performance, and Takanoiwa and Sokokurai must be up for something too. Besides Takayasu and Ichinojo, either Tamawashi or Takekaze is going to get 10 wins tomorrow, and Chiyonokuni could too!

Edited January 21, 2017 by RabidJohn

[SumpaX 23]

2 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Before and during the whole basho the main theme in the press was: "Kisenosato is on a yokozuna run now!" - if he wins against Hakuho convincingly, he'll have it. Also the YDC top has hinted as that already yesterday. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170120/sum17012021210018-n1.html

What was said after last basho is meaningless.

That would be the weakest tsuna promotion performance i ever witnessed. 

[bettega 408]

4 hours ago, sumojoann said:

Will Kisenosato have to win another yusho in order to be promoted to Yokozuna or will he get it now??

I truly hope so.

[Morty 1,460]

10 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Before and during the whole basho the main theme in the press was: "Kisenosato is on a yokozuna run now!" - if he wins against Hakuho convincingly, he'll have it. Also the YDC top has hinted as that already yesterday. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20170120/sum17012021210018-n1.html

What was said after last basho is meaningless.

He has 11 Jun-yusho, has a better record than Kakuryu across the board (except for Yushos), had the best winning record last year, and most importantly, the only people who have a better winning record against Hak are Harumafuji and Asashoryu. If he beats Hak tomorrow he is a lock for the rope

[bettega 408]

Just now, Morty said:

He has 11 Jun-yusho, has a better record than Kakuryu across the board (except for Yushos), had the best winning record last year, and most importantly, the only people who have a better winning record against Hak are Harumafuji and Asashoryu. If he beats Hak tomorrow he is a lock for the rope

A pity, for sure. Kaio weeps 

[SumpaX 23]

5 minutes ago, Morty said:

He has 11 Jun-yusho, has a better record than Kakuryu across the board (except for Yushos), had the best winning record last year, and most importantly, the only people who have a better winning record against Hak are Harumafuji and Asashoryu. If he beats Hak tomorrow he is a lock for the rope

Dont get me wrong he did some impressive things in his career, but his last 2 bashos were not very convincing for a yokozuna promotion, esp. after that many drop outs... Kakuryu had 2  times 14-1 yushos and he won over both yokozuna.

Edited January 21, 2017 by SumpaX

[Morty 1,460]

23 minutes ago, SumpaX said:

Dont get me wrong he did some impressive things in his career, but his last 2 bashos were not very convincing for a yokozuna promotion, esp. after that many drop outs... Kakuryu had 2  times 14-1 yushos and he won over both yokozuna.

There will be people on here that think he deserves it, and people who don't, but none of our opinions will matter because it is entirely up to a group of old men in Tokyo who don't really care what we think .

[ryafuji 802]

I found it a little frustrating that at the moment Kise wins his first ever yusho we see... the back of his head. Couldn't NHK have got a cameraman in the right position at the crucial moment? 

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,201]

Man I told you guys Hakuho will lose some more!

 

Kisenosato yokozuna!

[Akinomaki 38,563]

YDC top Moriya: "I want him to win tomorrow. Then I raise both arms (in favor)."

Hakkaku simply: "I want him to do another bout tomorrow."

http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2017012100246&g=spo

Any win without henka will likely give him the rope, not just an overpowering win. And in case of 13 wins, they'll still discuss it http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2017/01/21/0009847730.shtml

Edited January 21, 2017 by Akinomaki