Trivia bits

[Orion 431]

13 minutes ago, McBugger said:

Paging @Asashosakari and @Gurowake but help from anyone who might know this is very welcome.

When did the modern habit of jo'i scheduling (i.e. that the top 16 basically fight among themselves) begin? 

I can only reply from the opposite point of view. The first sumo I saw on live TV was Osaka 1968, when on the last day Wakanami, at that time a hiramaku, won his bout but nobody made a big fuss, as Kirinji (later Daikirin) was confidently expected to win his bout and clinch the yusho. When he lost, it finally sank in that Wakanami had already won the yusho a whole lot earlier. Many years later, when I was researching recent sumo history, a good friend (Dewanishiki?) told me that it was then that the rikishi themselves demanded that in the second half of a tournament lower-ranked men with very good scores should be brought up to face higher-ranked men in the top bouts.

Orion 

[Gurowake 4,016]

3 hours ago, McBugger said:

Paging @Asashosakari and @Gurowake but help from anyone who might know this is very welcome.

When did the modern habit of jo'i scheduling (i.e. that the top 16 basically fight among themselves) begin? 

The only way I would figure this out would be by brute force; I don't know anything about the history of scheduling.

[Asashosakari 18,967]

6 hours ago, McBugger said:

When did the modern habit of jo'i scheduling (i.e. that the top 16 basically fight among themselves) begin? 

I would say it's been like that pretty much ever since they scrapped the East-West scheduling in 1947.

[Atenzan 1,074]

For the second time in 7 years, multiple komusubi have gotten their kachikoshi in Natsu 2017. 

Haru 1999 marked the only time that 4 or more komusubi obtained kachikoshi, namely Tochiazuma (8-7), Dejima (9-6), Kaiou (10-5) and Akinoshima (11-4). It was the fourth basho in a row with multiple komusubi kachikoshi, with Kyushu 1998 featuring three. However, the streak ended there. 

[shimodahito 304]

when is the last time we had 4 special prize winners lose on senshuraku?

how often do makuuchi debutants win a special prize? (cheers to onosho!!!!)

[Asashosakari 18,967]

12 minutes ago, shimodahito said:

when is the last time we had 4 special prize winners lose on senshuraku?

Apparently hasn't happened before.

[shimodahito 304]

thanks!  That Hatsu 1981 banzuke was weird with HD ranks at Yokozuna, M8, M11 and J10.  

 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=198101

 

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

All three kinboshi winners for Natsu 2017 ended up being make-koshi (Chiyonokuni, Endo, Tochiozan). Can anybody tell when the last time that happened was? I tried looking up kinboshi through the DB query but apparently that's not a valid search parameter.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,261]

2 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

All three kinboshi winners for Natsu 2017 ended up being make-koshi (Chiyonokuni, Endo, Tochiozan). Can anybody tell when the last time that happened was? I tried looking up kinboshi through the DB query but apparently that's not a valid search parameter.

Seems like the big one was 2003 July where 5 (!!) rikishi took kinboshi then went makekoshi

But the last one was 2017 Haru where it was 4. 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&having=3&year=1929-2017&rank1=M&wins1=0-7&winsopt1=2&onlyw1=on&rank2=Y&group_expand=on

Here is the way to query

[Akinomaki 40,053]

Takekaze, who just turned 38, next basho will have 82 basho in makuuchi, the single most for a daisotsu rikishi from university sumo. And with 2 more days at the basho he will surpass Tosanoumi's most makuuchi appearances by a college graduated rikishi of 1183. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2017/06/22/kiji/20170621s00005000262000c.html

Edited June 23, 2017 by Akinomaki

[ryafuji 811]

20 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Takekaze, who just turned 38, next basho will have 82 basho in makuuchi, the single most for a rikishi from university sumo.

Not the single most, the joint most. Miyabiyama also has 82 makuuchi basho.

[Asashosakari 18,967]

 

25 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

20 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Takekaze, who just turned 38, next basho will have 82 basho in makuuchi, the single most for a rikishi from university sumo. And with 2 more days at the basho he will surpass Tosanoumi's most makuuchi appearances by a college graduated rikishi of 1183. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2017/06/22/kiji/20170621s00005000262000c.html

Not the single most, the joint most. Miyabiyama also has 82 makuuchi basho.

Pertinent part of Sponichi's stats claims highlighted. Miyabiyama left school early.

Edited June 23, 2017 by Asashosakari

[ryafuji 811]

34 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

 

Pertinent part of Sponichi's stats claims highlighted. Miyabiyama left school early.

I realize that but the part I was responding to was "single most for a rikishi from university sumo," which Miyabiyama clearly was. It's misleading to suggest otherwise as he was a makushita tsukedashi so met the requirements for amateur achievement at that time even if he didn't graduate. Takekaze will of course have the record to himself very soon but I just wanted to give Miyabiyama a shout-out.

Edited June 23, 2017 by ryafuji
add

[Akinomaki 40,053]

3 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I realize that but the part I was responding to was "single most for a rikishi from university sumo," which Miyabiyama clearly was.

Yeah, I should have put the "graduated" in both parts - happens often because I don't like to repeat phrases - corrected

Edited June 23, 2017 by Akinomaki

[Asashosakari 18,967]

3 hours ago, ryafuji said:

I realize that but the part I was responding to was "single most for a rikishi from university sumo," which Miyabiyama clearly was. It's misleading to suggest otherwise as he was a makushita tsukedashi so met the requirements for amateur achievement at that time even if he didn't graduate. Takekaze will of course have the record to himself very soon but I just wanted to give Miyabiyama a shout-out.

I'm guessing part of the reason Sponichi is using the must-have-graduated baseline is that it's about a longevity record, and turning pro two years early allowed Miyabiyama extra opportunities to amass tournaments.

[Asashosakari 18,967]

Between 1928 and 1952.01, every new banzuke featured at least one debutant in makuuchi. (In fact, nearly all of them had at least two.) Since then it's become fairly common to see basho where all promotions are for returnees and nobody gets a debut.

Longest streaks with at least one debut:

16 1968.09-1971.03
16 1988.09-1991.03
13 1955.01-1957.11
13 2007.03-2009.03
12 2003.09-2005.07
12 2015.07-2017.05
11 2012.09-2014.05
10 1963.01-1964.07
10 1972.07-1974.01
 9 1959.11-1961.03
 8 1952.09-1954.05
 7 1958.03-1959.03
 7 1998.05-1999.05
 7 2011.05-2012.05
 6 1996.07-1997.05
 6 2000.03-2001.01

Big gap between 1974 and 1988, a period that never saw more than 4 consecutive tournaments with a debut.

Longest streaks without any debuts (3 basho each): 1984.01-05, 1987.05-09, 2009.09-2010.01, 2015.01-05

[Gurowake 4,016]

From what I can tell from here, the only rikishi to finish with more than 10 wins per basho is Taiho.  However, Asashoryu was only one win short, and his number of basho includes one in mae-zumo for which he is credited with no wins.  Whether you count his maezumo wins (presumably 3), or don't count the basho at all, he also managed this feat even if it doesn't look like it at first.  Hakuho is well on track, with over a thousand wins in 97 basho.

Wajima was very close, though he started in Makushita and only had 2 basho there, giving him a significant advantage in having fewer basho with less than 15 matches.  If one were to switch to only counting basho that were competed in, he would qualify as he had one basho he sat out (and this would give another reason for Asashoryu to qualify).  The only other rikishi on that list that I noticed within ten basho of meeting the criteria are the original Wakanohana, Asahifuji, and former Ozeki Yutakayama, and none of them had more than one full absence.  There is also the case of Yokozuna Takanohana, who managed 11 full absences in his career (many of which came in a row).  If you remove all those, then he also had 10 wins per basho even before correcting for mae-zumo.

This has informed me that Wajima was much better than his yusho count suggests; the number was low not only because was he a college graduate with at least a couple years less of prime-time available, but he also shared time at the top with Kitanoumi.  Now, the makushita start certainly helped things in regard to the statistic being looked at, but no one else was particularly close other than those mentioned as qualifying, all of whom were among the absolute best.

[shumitto 418]

Not every one debuts at Sekiwake with a string of three kachi-koshi. Tamawashi is in good company, though a quick glance also reveals that he is one of the oldest. His debut took place more than 7 years after Baruto's, who is about his age.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&n_basho=3&form1_rank=S&form1_wins=>7&form1_debutr=on&form2_wins=>7&form3_wins=>7&columns=3

[WAKATAKE 2,644]

Was curious about this one and decided to check it out. In the 15 day era nine sekitori have had the "dishonor" of finishing 0-15; four in makuuchi and five in juryo. The last time it happened in makuuchi was Nagoya 1991, juryo it was Kyushu 2005.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_wins=0&form1_losses=15&form1_m=on

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_wins=0&form1_losses=15&form1_j=on

Edited July 22, 2017 by WAKATAKE

[Kishinoyama 582]

6 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Was curious about this one and decided to check it out. In the 15 day era nine sekitori have had the "dishonor" of finishing 0-15; four in makuuchi.......

I see that guy Itai again..... 

[Asashosakari 18,967]

Fun with rarely seen successive results:

6-1 -> 6-1 -> 1-6 -> 1-6

[Benihana 1,913]

Myogiryu and Aminishiki, both 10-5 at J4 had to stay in juryo. First time this ever happened. Aminishiki is only the 5th rikishi to go from J4 to J2 with this record.

[Asashosakari 18,967]

Last basho, Takarafuji became the 5th rikishi ever to win by okuridashi on three consecutive days. The others: Daio 1977.07 and Asahisato 1995.11, Takamisakari 2010.07, and Tochiozan 2013.11

[shimodahito 304]

look at Juryo results.  East dominates.  has there ever been a clean sweep?

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Results.aspx?b=201709&d=1

 

[Asashosakari 18,967]

Not sure if this belongs here but - was this site mentioned on the forum before? http://sumoelo.com/