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On 平成28年11月26日 at 11:23, McBugger said:

Let's do this!

2016 is set to become the first calendar year since 1997 with no banzuke changes among ozeki or yokozuna.

No promotions to ozeki, no promotions to yokozuna, no Y/O intai and no ozeki demotions.

This sparked an interesting manual query.

First, I wrote down the 1997 banzuke for yokozuna and ozeki. Then I found out how long those people remained unchanged at the top of the banzuke.

So, that set was as follows:

Yokozuna: Akebono, Takanohana

Ozeki: Wakanohana, Musashimaru, Takanonami.

So, these guys made up the top of the banzuke for way longer than a full calendar year. The set made its debut with Takanohana's promotion to yokozuna in Hatsu 1995, and ended with Wakanohana III's promotion to yokozuna in Nagoya 1998. So, that means that this set was there for 21 basho, 1995.01 through 1998.05. 

 

First off, no other set of Y/O in the history of sumo has remained unaltered for 21 basho. Ever.

But I continued my query to see who made up the last set of Y/O which remained unaltered for more than 3 years. So I clicked on banzuke date after banzuke date, scrolling back to before the 6-basho era, before the 5-basho era, before Futabayama, onto the 2-basho era, onto the pre-yusho era, onto the pre-yokozuna era, passing even Shiranui and Unryuu's times, and finally found the pair of ozeki that matched the nineties' Famous Five.

Ozeki Koyanagi from Chiba-ken and Kaganiiwa from Niigata-ken  reigned for a measly 7 basho before the simultaneous rise of Iouzan (Miyagi-ken shusshin) and Kaigatake (Toyama-ken shusshin). These 7 basho spanned 3.5 years from Fuyu 1852 to Haru 1856 (yes 7 basho; Fuyu 1855 was not held due to the aftereffects of a devastating fire earlier that year in Tokyo).

 

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Maybe this has been answered before but what is the highest number of rikishi from one heya in makuuchi in a single basho? I tried a query but couldn't seem to narrow it down. From browsing around the most I could see was 10.

Holy cow! Dewanoumi made up like almost the entire east side for the Natsu 1941 basho.

Edited by Rocks

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10 hours ago, Rocks said:

Maybe this has been answered before but what is the highest number of rikishi from one heya in makuuchi in a single basho? I tried a query but couldn't seem to narrow it down. From browsing around the most I could see was 10.

Let me guess... Futagoyama, mid 90s?

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23 hours ago, Rocks said:

Holy cow! Dewanoumi made up like almost the entire east side for the Natsu 1941 basho.

Hmmm... Wonder what could have been going on in Japan that might have caused this.  ???  (Sigh...)

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4 hours ago, Asojima said:

Hmmm... Wonder what could have been going on in Japan that might have caused this.  ???  (Sigh...)

That's not the reason. It was like that for most of the time since the mid-1910s.

Relevant link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitachiyama_Taniemon#Later_years

Edited by Asashosakari
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On 11/28/2016 at 15:53, McBugger said:

But I continued my query to see who made up the last set of Y/O which remained unaltered for more than 3 years. So I clicked on banzuke date after banzuke date, scrolling back to before the 6-basho era, before the 5-basho era, before Futabayama, onto the 2-basho era, onto the pre-yusho era, onto the pre-yokozuna era, passing even Shiranui and Unryuu's times, and finally found the pair of ozeki that matched the nineties' Famous Five.

I'm not really sure on the details of this, but I think if you go back far enough to would get to a time where the Ozeki couldn't ever be demoted, so one would have to retire for someone to move up, as there was no sense of there being more than one of each sanyaku on a side of the banzuke.  If this was at the same time that things were heavily segregated by having an ichimon being entirely on one side of the banzuke (and only facing the other side of the banzuke), one could easily get stuck behind someone in one's own ichimon for a long time.  Thus, I would venture to say that such times are not particularly comparable at all to modern sumo.

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On the Hatsu 2017 banzuke, the 9 lowest ranked rikishi (in this case Jk19e to Jk 23e) in the whole ranking all belong to the same stable : Isegahama beya

I don't know if it is possible to query in order to know if 9 rikishi of the same heya were ever aligned in a banzuke (moreover at the very bottom of it)

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20 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

On the Hatsu 2017 banzuke, the 9 lowest ranked rikishi (in this case Jk19e to Jk 23e) in the whole ranking all belong to the same stable : Isegahama beya

I don't know if it is possible to query in order to know if 9 rikishi of the same heya were ever aligned in a banzuke (moreover at the very bottom of it)

I'm interested in the first day of Jk torikumi to see how they handle the matchups.

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2 hours ago, Sakura said:

I'm interested in the first day of Jk torikumi to see how they handle the matchups.

Well obviously the guys ranked Jk18w and above will have to face them. No big deal. 

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1 hour ago, Bumpkin said:

Well obviously the guys ranked Jk18w and above will have to face them. No big deal. 

Yes. Quite. I'm more wondering about the exact pairings. 

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1 hour ago, Sakura said:

Yes. Quite. I'm more wondering about the exact pairings. 

It is impossible to know in advance. But it is not insane to imagine that our friend Hattorizakura will have a full-Isegahama basho (and perhaps become the first rikishi to fight rikishi from one single heya in all his tournament bouts, I doubt it ever happened...)

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2 hours ago, Sakura said:

Yes. Quite. I'm more wondering about the exact pairings. 

Barring absences, Jk14w - Jk18w in descending order should face  Isegahama wrestlers Jk19e-Jk23e.

Edited by Bumpkin

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It's not possible to know whether there will be an even number of rikishi available for a match in Round 1, and while the odd man out is usually the last guy on the banzuke, with the heavy Isegahama contingent they might leave someone else off Round 1 in order to be able to more easily work them in for two matches in a future Round.  So we can't really say anything for sure about what the exact matchups will be until they're announced, although there's probably a 50% chance it will happen as Bumpkin indicated.

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Hakuho's results on the days of tenran-zumo (Tenno watching) - should also be the recent list of those events - the 1st time he was in juryo, before the Tenno arrived http://www.sanspo.com/sports/expand/20170109/sum17010905030005-l13.html

Hatsu Day Rank W/L Result
2004 8 j12e w   9-6
5 1 kw l 11-4
6 13 sw w 13-2
7 13 o3w l 10-5
10 1 ye w 12-3
11 1 ye w 14-1Y
15 8 ye w 15-0Y
16 1 yw w 12-3
17 1 y2e w  
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Daiju has earned the most sansho (11) without ever picking up a kinboshi, while Futatsuryu has scored the most kinboshi (4) without ever winning a sansho.

(The latter stat is restricted to rikishi who had their first kinboshi after the 1947 sansho introduction.)

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The first three days in the juryo division this basho have been scheduled as 7 entirely separate mini-roundrobins: matrix

As far as I can tell that's the very first time things have been this neat since they went to 14 juryo ranks in 2004.

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3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

The first three days in the juryo division this basho have been scheduled as 7 entirely separate mini-roundrobins: matrix

As far as I can tell that's the very first time things have been this neat since they went to 14 juryo ranks in 2004.

The same sort of philosophy was used in Makuuchi.  Except for exactly which sanyaku matches would be picked, my best guess at how Day 3 should look given a desire to keep things simple and orderly was followed perfectly, was probably has never happened before.  Day 4 isn't all that disorderly either, with only the necessary jumbling up of the lowest ranks given how many are Kokonoe-beya.

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

The same sort of philosophy was used in Makuuchi.  Except for exactly which sanyaku matches would be picked, my best guess at how Day 3 should look given a desire to keep things simple and orderly was followed perfectly, was probably has never happened before.  Day 4 isn't all that disorderly either, with only the necessary jumbling up of the lowest ranks given how many are Kokonoe-beya.

I'm appreciating the orderly nature of the match-ups so far. It'll break down as the go records-based later, but it delights me at the moment.

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I just notice, there are currently 15 career Sekiwake in Makuuchi, recently 2 added. Another one in Juryo.

This is a lot! (Though I don't know if it much on the historical perspective.)

Anyway - those were the days, when Kisenosato and Goeido were blocking a Sekiwake spot for a long time.

We've been having a dazzling 8 new (first-time) Sekiwake in the last 5 basho! That qualifies for a record though.

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Tochinoshin has lost for the 11th straight time on shonichi (day 1), which of course has to do with the kind of opposition he faces as a 'lower-upper-guy'.

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On 1/13/2017 at 02:46, Andreas21 said:

I just notice, there are currently 15 career Sekiwake in Makuuchi, recently 2 added. Another one in Juryo.

This is a lot! (Though I don't know if it much on the historical perspective.)

I think once on the live broadcast I mentioned a stat like that. Can't remember exactly but I think something like 60% of the top division that basho had reached sankaku at some stage. 

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7 minutes ago, John Gunning said:

I think once on the live broadcast I mentioned a stat like that. Can't remember exactly but I think something like 60% of the top division that basho had reached sankaku at some stage. 

Just checked the current banzuke and 64% of the current top division have been komusubi or higher at some point.

Here's an interesting challenge. Without using the database can you guess who is the lowest ranked former juryo/maegashira/komusubi/sekiwake on the current banzuke. None are sekitori right now.

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Let's do some guesses :

I'm quite confident for Sekiwake : Toyonoshima and Maegashira : Masunoyama

I have no clue for Komusubi and Juryo

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