Harumafuji scandal thread- part 2

[Benihana 1,937]

If he were a few years older, it would be the perfect time for Isegahama-oyakata, to prepare the paperworks for a handover to Aminishiki.  

[Kintamayama 45,530]

2 hours ago, dada78641 said:

I've mentioned this before but I should say it again. I'm no yokozuna, but if someone else started suddenly thrashing someone in our company I'd probably be a deer in headlights for a good while too before realizing I should probably do something about it...

Well said. Exactly. And if the guy getting thrashed just trashed you, you'll be even less willing to step in on his behalf really quickly..

[Dapeng 236]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

.... as the disrespect initially was aimed at Hakuhou.

which makes me think that the actually target was Hakuhou, if there was a conspiracy against Mongolia-born rikishies.

[Asojima 2,874]

Perspective:  A day or two before the event, there was a report that Takanoiwa had made a statement to the effect that the yokozuna were slipping and would soon be overtaken by the young turks.  This was probably the subject of Hakuho's comments about respect which were judged as being ignored by Takanoiwa.  Takanoiwa was on the yokozuna shitlist before the get together, and he further aggrevated his status.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Asojima

[maorencze 144]

This is just absurd. Stripping Hak of his Jan payment for that stunt about non-matta, that I could understand. But when even witnesses asserted that Hak was the first one trying to stop Harumafuji and they do this? Not even sure I want to go on watching ozumo, definitely leaves a lot of a bitter taste in mouth

[CT3* 331]

 

This entire thing has left a bad taste with me as well. I usually travel to Japan in January to take in some of the Basho but I'm skipping it this year. Now I'm just feeling lucky that I got to see Harumafuji 6 times before his sudden retirement. Gonna miss his dohyo iri....

[Kintamayama 45,530]

44 minutes ago, Asojima said:

Perspective:  A day or two before the event, there was a report that Takanoiwa had made a statement to the effect that the yokozuna were slipping and would soon be overtaken by the young turks.  This was probably the subject of Hakuho's comments about respect which were judged as being ignored by Takanoiwa.  Takanoiwa was on the yokozuna shitlist before the get together, and he further aggrevated his status.

Exactly, important reminder. And back in the day, we had some pretty mean Japanese Yokozunae who were famous for bullying the hiramaku guys and an occasional bashing was not a rare thing. And in contrast to our story where we don't have all the facts, I have heard stories from people who were there.. Maybe a book someday..

[Kintamayama 45,530]

31 minutes ago, maorencze said:

This is just absurd. Stripping Hak of his Jan payment for that stunt about non-matta, that I could understand. But when even witnesses asserted that Hak was the first one trying to stop Harumafuji and they do this? Not even sure I want to go on watching ozumo, definitely leaves a lot of a bitter taste in mouth

I think some evidence showed that he didn't actually step in very quickly. All gossip of course, but the rumors are there.. And I wouldn't leave sumo just yet- a lot of interesting stuff coming up..

[maorencze 144]

4 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I think some evidence showed that he didn't actually step in very quickly. All gossip of course, but the rumors are there.. And I wouldn't leave sumo just yet- a lot of interesting stuff coming up..

Y'know, I've seen a lot of bad in people, but this way of settling events is just fundamentally wrong, and especially that whole YDC garbage. Them I always thought redundant, obstructive and intrusive and they only just reinforced my belief in their utter good-for-nothing-ness

[Asashosakari 19,667]

Duty news via Hochi: With Nishonoseki still sidelined after his bike accident and Isegahama no longer available due to his demotion, Dewanoumi will be filling in as head shimpan again in Hatsu basho. If I understand things correctly they're planning to have somebody else fill the role in March. (And then from Natsu onwards a new full-time appointment will be made after the newly elected board of directors takes office.)

Isegahama meanwhile has been moved to the fairly meaningless role as deputy chairman of the competition inspection committee, joining Takasago who's already deputy of that same group. I guess it's the officially approved position for parking the shisho of a scandal-retired yokozuna... According to another Hochi article, Isegahama's full-time position as head of the Osaka basho department will be taken over by "other director(s)", which I take to mean they'll just handle it by committee until April. An interesting bit from that article that I didn't realize before: The monthly salary for a yakuin taigu (executive officer, Isegahama's post-demotion title) is apparently 1,269,000 yen and thus identical to that of the three (elected) deputy directors, who are nominally one level above in the pecking order.

In other news (or "news"), Sanspo has run a report insinuating that the relatively harsh penalties on Hakkaku, Isegahama, Hakuho and Kakuryu are just a necessary precursor to applying tough sanctions against Takanohana as well, with a separate op-ed piece by a Sanspo reporter even claiming that closing down Takanohana-beya is on the table.

And back to Hochi, where people supposedly in the know are claiming that Takanohana has been softening his adversarial stance a bit, including finally letting them interview Takanoiwa, because he too is said to be worried about how all this would be playing in the elections next month if the news are still dominated by his ruckus against the establishment.

That last article also includes something that I'm not sure I've heard before, and consequently I'm not sure I'm even parsing it right (so, corrections welcome): Apparently following the Kyokai's shift to their new tax-favoured status in 2014, all stable-owning oyakata had to sign some sort of duties contract outlining their responsibilities as people tasked with bringing up rikishi for the Kyokai. Takanohana had refused to sign that until very recently, due to objections against the contract describing the primary relationship of rikishi as being Kyokai <-> rikishi, rather than shisho <-> rikishi. His decision to agree to the contract after all is seen as an attempt to avoid opening himself up to criticism ahead of the election. (I guess this might also play into the "closing down the stable" rumours, as not complying with Kyokai regulations would probably have given them major ammunition to justify doing that.)

Edited December 21, 2017 by Asashosakari

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

A nice summary of events.

https://tachiai.org/2017/12/20/update-on-harumafuji-scandal-ydc-nsk-special-meetings-and-report/

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Takanoiwa was questioned for two hours at a local hospital, where he has been since December 5th, it has been revealed. Takano head of CC met him there on the 19th, after Takanohana agreed to let him speak, as he felt the investigation was at its final stages. "He is recovering, no doubt about it. But he is not training so is physically out of shape. He told me he has lost weight," explained Mr. Takano. The reason for his getting beaten up was his speaking on his phone to his girlfriend while Hakuhou was preaching to him. "There was a pause, so I thought he was finished talking and I answered my phone. I didn't think it was rude, so I really don't understand Harumafuji's reaction," explained Takanoiwa. "Those present should have intervened much sooner. Why didn't anyone stop it?" he added. Why did he shake hands with Harumafuji the next day very publicly? "It wasn't something he wanted- some of my local supporters suggested I do it.." he said. At first, he told Takanohana he was drunk and fell from the stairs. "I didn't want to cause an uproar and I thought being a snitch is not manly. I was ashamed that all present saw what happened..," he explained.  As for Harumafuji's retirement- "It was not what I wanted to happen.."  "Takanoiwa was a victim of a serious attack. The Kyokai as a whole are supposed to protect him," said Kagamiyama Oyakata. Then the non-demotion from Juryo was announced.

Edited January 6, 2018 by Kintamayama

[dada78641 884]

NHK Easy News article about Hakuhou and Kakuryuu's salary deductions, for those studying Japanese.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/easy/k10011265571000/k10011265571000.html

[Akinomaki 40,801]

easy done - moved to an extra thread

Edited December 21, 2017 by Akinomaki

[Katooshu 3,335]

STILL at the hospital?

[Jakusotsu 6,049]

Some people might even find this pool of pics interesting, but for me it's yet another wall of spam to be loaded before the actual content.

Edit: Akinomaki kindly moved the picture part to a separate thread.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Jakusotsu

[Gernobono 467]

39 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Some people might even find this pool of pics interesting, but for me it's yet another wall of spam to be loaded before the actual content.

Personally,  I would prefer a thread without loads of pics loading before seeing the interesting stuff..... there is a line between fotos and foooooooootos 

[Kintamayama 45,530]

A nonpartisan group called "The League of Diet Members Who Are Seeking a Betterment of Sumo" (for real..) is not happy about the punishment given to the Yokozunae. "This fine is peanuts for Yokozunae who make a lot of money.." said Mr. Takemoto Naokazu the chairman.  "Yokozunae and ex-Yokozunae are the Kyokai's assets. There is a scandal right now but we will do our best to help towards the betterment of sumo.." he added.

[Kishinoyama 596]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

A nonpartisan group called "The League of Diet Members Who Are Seeking a Betterment of Sumo" (for real..) 

Politicians? Nonpartisan? Is that even possible? 

[rhyen 1,846]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

A nonpartisan group called "The League of Diet Members Who Are Seeking a Betterment of Sumo" (for real..) is not happy about the punishment given to the Yokozunae. "This fine is peanuts for (Mongolian) Yokozunae who make a lot of money.." said Mr. Takemoto Naokazu the chairman.  "(Japanese) Yokozunae and ex-Yokozunae are the Kyokai's assets. There is a scandal right now but we will do our best to help towards the betterment of sumo.." he added.

Perhaps this is a better way of reading between the lines, no?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

12 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Takanoiwa was questioned for two hours at a local hospital, where he has been since December 5th, it has been revealed. Takano head of CC met him there on the 19th, after Takanohana agreed to let him speak, as he felt the investigation was at its final stages. "He is recovering, no doubt about it. But he is not training so is physically out of shape. He told me he has lost weight," explained Mr. Takano. The reason for his getting beaten up was his speaking on his phone to his girlfriend while Hakuhou was preaching to him. "There was a pause, so I thought he was finished talking and I answered my phone. I didn't think it was rude, so I really don't understand Harumafuji's reaction," explained Takanoiwa. "Those present should have intervened much sooner. Why didn't anyone stop it?" he added. Why did he shake hands with Harumafuji the next day very publicly? "It wasn't something he wanted- some of my local supporters suggested I do it.." he said. At first, he told Takanohana he was drunk and fell from the stairs. I didn't want to cause an uproar and I thought being a snitch is not manly. I was ashamed that all present saw what happened..," he explained.  As for Harumafuji's retirement- "It was not what I wanted to happen.."  "Takanoiwa was a victim of a serious attack. The Kyokai as a whole are supposed to protect him," said Kagamiyama Oyakata. Then the non-demotion from Juryo was announced.

I am aware that in Japan hospital stays can be oddly long due to whatever reasons. If I think of a head injury patient in Finland who has been in hospital for 16 consecutive days, the diagnosis is severe. Otherwise such scenario wouldn¨t even be possible. Hatching patients like that is peculiar indeed. I`d dare to say Takanoiwa¨s brain injury is severe enough to keep him out of impact training for weeks or even months but since he is in Japanese hospital, maybe that is not the case after all. Hospital stays include aggressive diagnostics, treatment and/or rehabilitation. 16 days of any of those sound bad when it comes to future prospects as rikishi but again, Japanese hospital....I have read about rikishi who undergo standard ACL-reconstruction surgery and stay in hospital for even a WEEK! Why?? I stayed in hospital for 6 hours after my ACL surgery was finished 9 years ago and it was quite normal time.

Even if he has bad concussion (which has kept for example hockey players, NFL players etc out of game for months and months), what good does hospital do for that?

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,276]

Keep him in and reduce muscle mass that can't really be trained back as easily when you are older. Is that the goal? 3 months of no exercise even, he is going to be terrible on return.

I train mostly outside, so I reduce by half (every other day) during the winter because the indoor gym is boring and expensive. Everything is so much worse in the spring, it feels like I'm beginning from scratch again. And I'm just an amateur hobbyist; not some professional. Trying to regain strength quickly is a great recipe for additional injuries too.

This would be a lot more pleasant if somebody, anybody, would give a clear goal of what they are trying to accomplish, so at least everyone could imagine some positives while staring the very obvious negatives in the face. Of course I'm going to hit the 1 in a 100 million lottery jackpot before that ever happens.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Takanohana passed around a 15 page written document explaining in detail his side of the story during the rijikai held on the 20th, in response to the two points he was accused by the Kyokai. (1) for being the jungyo chief and not reporting to the Kyokai when this happened, and (2), his failure to keep his promise to cooperate with the Kyokai once the police finished their investigation. On the fact he didn't report the incident to the Kyokai- "I though the police had reported it to them." "We think his not cooperating was much worse, "said an Oyakata in response to that claim, saying that (2) was more important than (1).. Since the Kyokai never actually heard any explanation for his non-cooperation, no punishment was given, yet. Everyone is now waiting for the 28th to come around, when yet another special rijikai will convene, hopefully to finally hear what Takanohana has to say, and then a decision will be made regarding the punishment itself.

Anybody home??

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Kintamayama

[kawika 123]

44 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Takanohana passed around a 15 page written document explaining in detail his side of the story during the rijikai held on the 20th, in response to the two points he was accused by the Kyokai. (1) for being the jungyo chief and not reporting to the Kyokai when this happened, and (2), his failure to keep his promise to cooperate with the Kyokai once the police finished their investigation. On the fact he didn't report the incident to the Kyokai- "I though the police had reported it to them." "We think his not cooperating was much worse, "said an Oyakata in response to that claim, saying that (2) was more important than (1).. Since the Kyokai never actually heard any explanation for his non-cooperation, no punishment was given, yet. Everyone is now waiting for the 28th to come around, when yet another special rijikai will convene, hopefully to finally hear what Takanohana has to say, and then a decision will be made regarding the punishment itself.

Anybody home??

 

15 pages?  I am impressed.  there could be something here...do you think he could pull a takeover or what?

 

[Kintamayama 45,530]

5 hours ago, kawika said:

15 pages?  I am impressed.  there could be something here...do you think he could pull a takeover or what?

 

Not at this stage. He has to receive a punishment, and it could be a severe one.