Harumafuji scandal thread- part 2

[robnplunder 978]

23 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

What would not have happened? The fight or the scandal?

There was no fight.  There was an assault, with an object no less.   Fight usually takes two parties.

[Dapeng 236]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

There was no fight.  There was an assault, with an object no less.   Fight usually takes two parties.

It's true Harumafuji beat Takanoiwa but it can't be called "assault". Initially Harumafuji ordered Takanoiwa to apologize to Hakuho, but Takanoiwa refused, then Harumafuji began to beat Takanoiwa who still refused to apologize and the situation got worsened.

[Benevolance 2,534]

Yeah, it's called assault and battery. 

[Asojima 2,874]

58 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

Yeah, it's called assault and battery. 

and the battery was remotely enclosed

[robnplunder 978]

7 hours ago, Dapeng said:

It's true Harumafuji beat Takanoiwa but it can't be called "assault". Initially Harumafuji ordered Takanoiwa to apologize to Hakuho, but Takanoiwa refused, then Harumafuji began to beat Takanoiwa who still refused to apologize and the situation got worsened.

Here in California (and most other places in USA or in the world for that matter), that's an assault.  

Edited December 28, 2017 by robnplunder

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

It appears Takanohana oyakata has been demoted from his position as member of board of directors. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by Otokonoyama

[Asashosakari 20,297]

Indeed, today's meeting of the board of directors has resulted in Takanohana receiving a demotion from director to yakuin taigu (executive officer) for his role in the Harumafuji scandal, specifically his decision not to report the assault in his duties as manager of the jungyo tour where it occurred, as well as his lack of cooperation subsequently. The board distributed a five-page document to the press corps as part of the press conference announcement, detailing the justifications for this decision. The demotion is not yet official as contrary to earlier reports there's apparently a minimum one-week period before the board of trustees can meet to certify such a decision, so that will now reportedly happen on January 4th. If confirmed, it will be the first-ever involuntary demotion of a Kyokai director.

Takanohana may still have got off lightly here, though, as the alternative penalty "suspension of duties" would have seen him technically remain a director, but unable to run in next month's board elections as part of the suspension. According to current reports he'll now be free to seek re-election, with a likely return to the board in April.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Asashosakari

[orandashoho 720]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

According to current reports he'll now be free to seek re-election, with a likely return to the board in April.

Does he still have enough support to get re-elected? I understood that some of the non-ichimon voters who amassed behind him last time are now withdrawing their support because of his noncooperation weirdness.

[Asashosakari 20,297]

21 minutes ago, orandashoho said:

Does he still have enough support to get re-elected? I understood that some of the non-ichimon voters who amassed behind him last time are now withdrawing their support because of his noncooperation weirdness.

That comment was straight off Nikkan whose writer says "If he decides to run, his election is considered certain." Keep in mind that there's a certain amount of agenda-pushing here from all corners - Nikkan seems to be generally leaning pro-Takanohana (IIRC he used to be a special columnist for them before he joined the board), while Sports Hochi is probably more of an establishment paper and their recent "his support is evaporating" stories need to be viewed in that context.

[Akinomaki 41,856]

19 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

It is expected that Harumafuji will tomorrow get a summary indictment from the Tottori prosecutor's office, so that the legal procedures end with this ryakushiki-kiso and a fine by the summary court. http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/20171227-OYT1T50080.html

Harumafuji got that summary indictment today - the comment from his lawyer: "We once more deeply apologize." The summary court is expected to pass the summary order with the opening of business in the new year.

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20171228/k10011274201000.html

http://mainichi.jp/articles/20171229/k00/00m/050/074000c

[Dapeng 236]

The "demotion " is more severe than "suspension ", thus the latter should be part of the former.  Also, once demoted as a punishment,  one is not supposed to be elected again for at least one term (2 years), otherwise the "demotion " as a punishment will be meaningless and ridiculous.

[Dapeng 236]

The main reason for Takanohana being so severely disciplined is that he refused to cooperate with the kyokai such as not reporting to kyokai and refusing interview. But I still don't understand why Takanohana behaved so weird. If he had reported to the kyokai immediately after reporting to police and cooperateed, he would not get anything onto himself and still could get Harumafuji and Isegahama kicked out.

[Akinomaki 41,856]

Several gogai on the net about the decision to demote Taka (in a short while for a short while ) - some:

http://www.minpo.jp/common/extra/20171228293.pdf

http://webun.jp/pdf/item/7425000/7425922/40a12d69-09e5-43e0-901c-7b6b1e4e75e8.pdf

Hakkaku himself mentioned that Taka can get reelected end of January.

from NHK:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJRQSUUtzZw

Ikenobo explained she won't give a personal comment before the special hyogi-inkai meeting on the 4th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyqSBH8M-VE

new at 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9MbrYWKwek

news at 5 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05XhMj4vRHg

Kyodo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wtdc_3dZStg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53z5Y5HExcw

ANN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RownnXJYzX4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMTpL_KYfeM

- Harumafuji
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAFw_Arl2SA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-2TcpakoTs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNgMXw3fdvI

Edited December 28, 2017 by Akinomaki

[Kintamayama 47,371]

2 hours ago, Dapeng said:

The main reason for Takanohana being so severely disciplined is that he refused to cooperate with the kyokai such as not reporting to kyokai and refusing interview. But I still don't understand why Takanohana behaved so weird. If he had reported to the kyokai immediately after reporting to police and cooperateed, he would not get anything onto himself and still could get Harumafuji and Isegahama kicked out.

I don't see any severe discipline at all. A two rank demotion for a month? Child's play. Loss of face? I don't think Takanohana gave it a moment of thought. He has bigger fish to fry.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,371]

"I'm not resigning as a riji," said Takanohana, in response to the media's question. The demotion will become final only after the trustees vote on it, but Takanohana has no intention of resigning on his own before that.

Edited December 28, 2017 by Kintamayama

[Atenzan 1,084]

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

"I'm not resigning as a riji," said Takanohana, in response to the media's question. The demotion will become final only after the trustees vote on it, but Takanohana has no intention of resigning on his own before that.

So it should be fairly safe to assume he won't hesitate in putting up his name for  re-election, right?

[Jejima 1,498]

This report is from the BBC - one of the top stories currently on their News page (not their Sports page!).

[Dapeng 236]

21 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I don't see any severe discipline at all. A two rank demotion for a month? Child's play. Loss of face? I don't think Takanohana gave it a moment of thought. He has bigger fish to fry.

Demotion is the third severe discipline. The first two is excommunication and forced resign. If he is immediately reelected in January , the sumo kyokai's discipline is but a joke.

[orandashoho 720]

15 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

If he is immediately reelected in January , the sumo kyokai's discipline is but a joke.

Not really. They made an important point; the punishment is severe and the history of this two-ranks demotion will cling to him for a time to come. Even when he gets immediately re-elected, he will have lost ground that he is not likely to recover anytime soon. The revolution he was aiming for will be harder to achieve and a Takanohana inside of the rijikai may be easier to manage than a disgruntled Takanohana pushing reform and having nothing to lose. 

Edited December 28, 2017 by orandashoho

[rhyen 1,858]

Interesting, the media has reported that Takanohana has been demoted to the same rank as Isegahama.

[Akinomaki 41,856]

Past penalties for riji http://mainichi.jp/articles/20171229/k00/00m/050/083000c

1987 a 3 months worth pay reduction for the riji, for having recommended Futahaguro for yokozuna promotion

1996 a 6 months worth reduction for Futagoyama-oyakata (Takanohana I), for tax evasion of the donations for buying a kabu

The first to lose the riji rank was Magaki (Wakanohana II) in 2008, for the drug abuse of Wakanoho, and for the one of Hakurozan, Kitanoumi stepped down as riji-cho

For the yaocho scandal in 2011, Kitanoumi, Kokonoe and Michinoku stepped down as riji because deshi of them were involved

[Kintamayama 47,371]

7 hours ago, orandashoho said:

Not really. They made an important point; the punishment is severe and the history of this two-ranks demotion will cling to him for a time to come. Even when he gets immediately re-elected, he will have lost ground that he is not likely to recover anytime soon. 

I'm not sure about that at all. I don't think he lost an inch of ground. The guys behind him will stay behind him and I foresee even more support, not because he is so beloved, but more because the old guard is just that. To paraphrase- "your generation is done-it's our turn now!!"

Edited December 28, 2017 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 47,371]

7 hours ago, Dapeng said:

Demotion is the third severe discipline. The first two is excommunication and forced resign. If he is immediately reelected in January , the sumo kyokai's discipline is but a joke.

Do you have any doubt he will be re-elected?

[Atenzan 1,084]

Maybe they're letting him off with a slap on the wrist because:

-it's not so black and white and they need to suspend judgement 

-dirty sumo laundry circulates slowly, even among the members of the Kyokai

- (insert conspiracy about how Takanohana is actually going to be punished- in a dimly lit backroom by a guy named Two-Tooth Jim) 

[Kintamayama 47,371]

5 hours ago, McBugger said:

- (insert conspiracy about how Takanohana is actually going to be punished- in a dimly lit backroom by a guy named Two-Tooth Jim) 

Or, insert conspiracy about how Takanohana knows stuff and has hinted he will go public if they try to destroy him.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Kintamayama