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23 pointsI would stop doing this in a heartbeat if a real alternative pops up. The NHK recap the guys do in English is perfect but come on- an eight hour delay till it starts makes no sense. If I can do this in half an hour, they can do it in a minute. I have always said I would stop , but i never did (contrary to what I keep hearing..) because an alternative is lacking. And yes, it is a time-consuming thing- it's not like I take NHK's program as is and rebroadcast it. I turn 2 hours into 15 minutes. I like to think I'm (and Natto, to a much greater degree) adding some value. I don't want to be paid -I just want to be left alone to put this out there. BUT, as an aside, the NSK official youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/@sumo-video is slowly but Shirley putting up all major bouts about an hour later with no commentating whatsoever in glorious HD, hopefully as a sign to what may come. They even put up the last four Makushita bouts from today. 14 bouts in all, a few from Juryo as well. It started out with two bouts a day about a year ago, and is slowly evolving into something that I am hoping will make us all happy. Looks like a pilot to me. BUTT, we've had our share of disappointments re these hopes for many years, so..
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22 points
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19 pointsHi guys, I'm the admin in Natto's Discord and was responsible for his Telegram channel. I'll quickly go over what happened and what is happening. At the beginning of December, myself and some others in his Discord server were actually getting copyright strikes WITHIN Discord for posts that contained links to Natto's videos. My account got muted for 24 hours and then eventually the Discord just wasn't there anymore. They didn't give us a chance to remove to links or anything, just gone. They also took down Natto's personal website by contacting his webhost directly. This was all done by a company who specialised in protecting Japanese companies IP overseas, who NHK have obviously hired to chase him down. So over December we decided that the only option going forward was to switch to Abema footage, and to (at least initially) drastically reduce the number of people who had access to his videos in the hopes of shaking off this company. Hopefully both of these things combined will allow us to regroup a little and see how things go. There's just so much noise around his videos usually it's impossible to run any sort of experiments like this. So: - Natto's Discord is back, but it's semi-private for now. The only way you can get Discord to remove individual posts for copyright is a manual process via email and involves quoting to them the unique ID of a post. This means someone had to come in the server, find the posts and email them to DIscord's copyright reporting process. So for now, we're keeping membership limited to keep people like that out to the best of our abilities. - Natto is making videos, but they're being distributed on a limited scale while we try out what we can get away with. I'm not even going to fully say how we're distributing the videos, to keep some air of secrecy. Someone else is then taking the videos and putting them on their own Telegram channel (the SumoCuts Telegram channel Akinomaki mentioned above), which we're aware of, and then someone has taken the videos from there and is doing their own Russian commentary over them. Neither of them are Natto himself though. Anyone pretending to be Natto on Youtube and especially Facebook are scammers trying to solicit donations in his name. There's a guy seemingly from Vietnam who has been doing this for years now, but Natto is NOT on Youtube and NOT on Facebook. If you get to watch the videos that's great but don't give anyone any money unless you're getting it from the legit source. If you don't know the legit source, then simply do not donate. Natto isn't really that concerned with people reuploading his videos (especially since it means it's other Telegram channels and Youtube channels in the firing line and not him) but the people trying to make money off others under false pretences are certainly nothing to do with him. Reddit is absolutely swamped with people asking for the videos but I'm sorry, unless we know who you are you'll have to miss this one out. The Reddit discourse is just a clusterfuck and anything I said in there would be buried but hopefully here I can get something across. I highly suggest joining the SumoCuts Telegram channel if you're that desperate for Natto, if not you're stuck with the official sources. Sorry to post this diatribe but hopefully it clarifies things. If things don't calm down then maybe Natto will never go "public" again, but NHK's actions are forcing our hand.
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17 pointsOut of curiosity, I tried to dig somewhat deeper than photographic evidence can give us. Among other things, I noticed the following patterns. The new yokozuna has free of choice in choosing his style, with asterisks. General freedom: Kisenosato chose Unryu despite his late oyakata (Takanosato) were a Shiranui practictioner. Referencing is still strong: the vast majority of Shiranui practictioner belong to the Isegahama ichimon - and that's not because of Asahifuji. It can be traced back to Tachiyama, the first modern practitioner of this style. Besides from exception, a yokozuna deshi almost always follows the style of his yokozuna Oyakata. The teacher virtually always belong to the same ichimon of the new Yokozuna. Teachers from other ichimon actually appear barred from teaching the dohyo-iri new yokozuna from another ichimon. The only documented exception to that is Takanohana (Takanohana) teaching Kakuryu (Tokitsukaze) - but the Tokitsukaze Ichimon had literally no Yokozuna available. By the rule mentioned above, Kakuryu should have been taught by Kashiwado - who died sixteen years before his promotion. Kotozakura (I) was taught by Taiho (same Nihonoseki ichimon) likely because the Yoshibayama belonged to the Isegahama ichimon. The Oyakata (whether being a yokozuna who practiced the same style) is the preferential teacher over other yokozuna of the same ichimon. Those considerations helped me to re-create the most likely "lineages", going back to the late 19th century but not before, for reasons I will explain in the following lines, including little evidence for an ichimon system before this time. The first 5 Yokozuna up to Onomatsu didn't have anyone that could tech them the style - it was also very new back then. I also believe that the yokozuna dohyo-iri was once the same dohyo-iri made in group by the other wrestlers. The latter became increasingly stylized as the number of wrestlers increased and room for movements was reduced. There was then little reason to believe that they were taught the movements by anyone but their oyakata himself as the basic dohyo-iri. Things start to be more complicated with the elevation of Inazuma as the 7th Yokozuna (1830), while the 6th Yokozuna Onomatsu was still active. It is not impossible that Onomatsu taught the dohyo-iri to Inazuma, but I think it's unlikely. There was no such tradition back then, and there is no evidence that the dohyo-iri already represented the status symbol it became later on. Anyway, Inazuma himself didn't become an oyakata after his retirement (1839) apparently, although both him and Onomatsu could have been around when the 8th Yokozuna Shiranui (I) was elevated to the rank (1840). Also, Onomatsu and Shiranui were both oyakata when the 9th yokozuna Hidenoyama got the rank (1847). However, their involvement in either case it's pure speculation. Then we come to the first "dohyo-iri stars" of Ozumo, the 10th Yokozuna Unryu (1861) and the 11th, Shiranui II (1863). It is most likely that Unryu created his style himself (paradoxically the Shiranui style), while in the latter case we have the first virtually ascertained passage, Shiranui I > Shiranui II, he former being the oyakata of the latter. For those who didn't catch up with the news, it is virtually certain today that Unryu invented the Shiranui style, and Shiranui II the Unryu style, only for their names to be mixed up later on. The main piece of evidence is an 1869 photo of Shiranui II and newly promoted 13th Yokozuna Kimenzan (see here), the former showing the unryu style to the left, while the other mimicking the Shiranui style to the right - there are several other photos showing Shiranui doing Unryu, so they weren't imitating each other there. That's also enough evidence for concluding that also Kimenzan used the Shiranui, which give us the passage Unryu > Kimenzan (1869), Unryu being an oyakata at the time. That's harder to say who taught the 12th Yokozuna Jinmaku (1867, a documented Unryu practitioner) and the 14th Yokozuna Sakaigawa (1877). In theory, Unryu was still alive back then (died 1879), but their promotion is to be framed in the context of the Boshin War, which destabilized also the sumo world and produced several unofficial Yokozuna in absence of a recognized authority. We reach some safer ground with the 15th Yokozuna, Umegatani I (promoted 1884). Although not assured, it is likely that we have Sakaigawa > Umegatani I. Both men belonged to the Dewanoumi ichimon (if more modern factions are to be trusted), and anyway Sakaigawa was the only Yokozuna that remained as an oyakata (Jinmaku covered several official posts in his retirement). The death of Sakaigawa himself in 1887 also leaves Umegatani I as the only available teacher for Nishinoumi I (1890), while it is possible that the latter taught his stablemate Konishiki the ritual (1896). The same might have been done by Konishiki when Ozutsu was promoted (1901). Also, notice that those Yokozuna, from Nishinoumi I to Ozutsu, were successive - a new one was selected when the previous retired. Teaching the style might have constituted a moment of "passing the torch", possibly. After him, both Hitachiyama and Umegatani II (1903) were likely taught by Umegatani I, being all part of the Dewanoumi ichimon. Therefore, we have the following likely succession schemes leading to the present day:
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13 points
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12 points
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12 pointsMy earliest memories of sumo go back to late 1995, followed by many wonderful evening broadcasts on Eurosport on German television. Until one day I came across a channel of a certain legend of this forum on the internet and have been a loyal viewer ever since. I've probably been a guest on sumoforum with its exceptional experts and enthusiastic members for just as long. Well, until now. My fondest sumo moment was when Moti-san has blurred Aoiyama. It was so spontaneous spot on and incredibly hilarious that other people ran into my room and asked me why I was laughing so hard. As I have not been able to see my all-time favourite rikishi live, I thought I would at least engage in a more personal exchange with all of you on this forum as you share your knowledge and deep love of sumo with us less linguistically gifted in Japanese and also share your private encounters with the rikishi. A versatile representative of the grandees was incredibly responsive to my simple comment and helped me to overcome the validation e-mail wall, that kept me from joining the forum for quite some time. Thank you once again Asashosakari. So now here i am and see you all later!
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9 pointsooo Joining the Tottori Johoku sumo club with Ichinojo immediately after coming to Japan. June 2010 o o Interhigh team yusho in August, lifting up captain Amitani (now regular poster on YT) o o leaving in first year and joining Magaki-beya Dec. 2010 as Wakamisho o with Hakuho Haru 2011 o Aki 2011 jonidan o the heya closes, joining Isegahama with Wakaaoba and Shunba for Natsu 2013 oo Terunofuji for juryo promotion after Nagoya 2013 o o yusho as new juryo Aki 2013, as sekitori now with his own kimono cloth (mainly to give to others), polar bear design oo Kyushu 2014 against Hakuho o 1st sansho, kanto-sho Hatsu 2015 o double sansho Haru 2015, 2nd kanto-sho and shukun-sho o for beating Hakuho o 1st yusho Natsu 2015, with ozeki promotion o o oo oo oo day after o ooo o Nagoya banzuke as new ozeki, Takarafuji as new komusubi o against Kakuryu, Aki 2014, Nag.2015, later o oo knee injured in a bout against Kisenosato, day 13 Aki 2015 o o o o severely injured Kisenosato beats him by kotenage in the yusho ketteisen for the 2nd and last and first yokozuna yusho Haru 2017 o o jonidan restart Haru 2019, day 1&15 - yusho ketteisen o o o 2nd yusho non-Nagoya 2020 oo ozeki re-promotion after Haru 2021 ooo 3rd yusho Natsu 2021 - ketteisen with Takakeisho oo Day 15 Nagoya 2021 vs. Hakuho o o o yokozuna promotion after a 14-1 runner-up result o o o o First yokozuna dohyo-iri August 2021 o last Hatsu 2025 day 4 o o oo at the Meiji shrine before the basho oo at the Sumiyoshi taisha before the Haru basho last year o main jungyo task: dohyo-iri o Aki 2022 o 5th yusho, as new yokozuna Aki 2021 o o o promotion party and yokozuna stone engraving oo Pokemon basho Kyushu 2021 o yusho portrait presentation with Ichinojo before Aki 2022 for the 7th yusho at the Natsu basho o Aki 2022 vs. Kiribayama o 9th yusho Hatsu 2024 - ketteisen with Kotonowaka oo oo o first to use the new car o o 10th and last yusho Nagoya 2024 o ooo o o o o o o o the last basho - day 1 o o day 2 oo day 3 o o final bout - day 4 Hatsu 2025 oo o o oo oo oo ooo oo o oo o o oo with long-time tsukebito Shunba o o o o o o training oooo with Ichinojo o with Hakuho August 2014 o Feb 2015 o with Harumafuji before Aki 2015 o with kids before Kyushu 2015 o baby dohyo-iri at the Otoi-ozumo 2015 o watching jonokuchi restarter Enho o watching and instructing at high schools - Tottori, Kagoshima o o on a trip to Mongolia July 2015, with Seiro, Harumafuji, Kyokutenho, , Kyokushuho, Takanoiwa, Ichinojo o December 2015 at the funeral for Kitanoumi o Nagatanien CM Natsu 2015 o eating an ehomaki at the rikishi-kai after Christmas 2016 o at the NHK charity ozumo 2017 - with Hakuho mask o with team Shachihoko o wedding reception June 2023 o o Isegahama-oyakata birthday 2024 o
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9 points
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9 pointsExactly this. Achieving the status of Yokozuna is one of, if not the most, difficult thing to achieve in world sport. There's a reason why there have only been 73 of them in just under 400 years. The one time they relaxed the standards they ended up with a Yokozuna with an imaginary asterisk next to his name, in that he never won a yusho. The banzuke has to have an Ozeki on it, not a Yokozuna, and there is no reason they need to quickly overpromote someone. That status should be reserved for only the absolute champions, the ones who prove they deserve it, by being so dominant they almost never lose, and when they do it is such a surprise that the cushions fly. Eventually someone will come along who fits that criteria, and will deservedly get the rope. I suspect it will happen sooner rather than later, but I hope they have to achieve it, rather than being given a soft ride to it.
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7 pointsYeah, but Shodai only shows up for matches against good opponents, so that's actually a point in Hoshoryu's favour. Shodai's long term goal is to become a yokozuna-killer, lollygag in the upper rank and file, and earn sweet, sweet kinboshi.
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7 points
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7 pointsI fixed a few bugs, so it should happen less often now that the website is down.
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7 pointsWe now have a new bald rikishi who suffers from alopecia areata. Jonidan 70 W Daigozakura, who belongs to Takadagawa beya, 16 years old.
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7 pointsDo you want a serious answer? Long story short, Mitakeumi had been a joy regular from Nagoya 2016 down to Natsu 2023, while Chiyoshoma reached the joy only once in his entire career, in Natsu 2017 (M2w). Also, Chiyoshoma was still in Makushita when Mitakeumi was promoted to Makuuchi after Aki 2015, so they were never in Juryo together. Again, Chiyoshoma was in Juryo (J3w) when Mitakeumi first hit the joy (M1e) in Nagoya 2016, never to leave the top brass before recently. Hence, Natsu 2017 was the only previous occasion in which they could have been paired against each other, since Mitakeumi himself was ranked K1e in that tournament. However, their match was scrapped because Mitakeumi, as a Komusubi, was called to face all the upper san'yaku (10 people). He finished his round of beating only after Day 12 with a 6-6 score, after which he was given people with a similar score in his last days (Mita Natsu 2017). In the meanwhile, Chiyoshoma was taking a serious beating and entered Day 13 (Mita's first free day in a while) already with a MK (Shoma Natsu 2017). He was handed out to K1w Yoshikaze on Day 13, and then left to play with with fellow losers down the banzuke. Also, this is the first time ever Chiyoshoma (M5w) outranks Mitakeumi (M7w). He had always been behind him since the beginning (Mita started at M10TD in Haru 2015, where Chiyoshoma was down to Ms30w). This tell volumes about their stories.
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7 points
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7 pointsWhat a day. Oho is starting to look like a possible future Ozeki contender. Something I never thought I'd say. And Takakeisho may be an even better commentator than Kisenosato. Something else I thought I'd never say.
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7 pointsNHK, if you're lurking here. Let's have a moment of real talk. Quite frankly, if you just do what the pirates do, problem solved. Your coverage for people outside Japan is...poor. The NHK World digest is appreciated, but it isn't complete and comes out too late to be relevant in a world where results get spoiled by Twitter or Instagram. It may be easy for me to say, but do what Natto or Kintamayama do and make it accessible to foreigners and the audience will come. After all, the reason you are having to constantly squash pirates is because there is demand. I know the return on your investment is going to be small but we don't need much in terms of production. I know there's probably contracts and all, we can wait patiently for that to get worked out. Love, Churaumi
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6 pointsThinking about why they may/may not promote him, I've got: For: - He was on a declared tsuna run and he won the yusho. - The manner in which he won the yusho showed determination and the ability to perform under pressure. - The eyeball test. He does prototypical Yokozuna sumo. He has evolved from being a throwing specialist that over relied on his judo to a more rounded style, using effective pushing to set up a powerful yotsu game. - Consistency. He hasn't had a losing score since November 2021 when he was M5. - No injury concerns. He has missed only 5 matches since his debut in 2018, and has shown the willingness to fight while being hurt and get a winning score. - Terunofuji's retirement and the pressure for the top rank to not be empty. Against: - 12-3 is not a strong yusho. - 25 in 2 with only one yusho is a sketchy scoreline. Easy to see it being considered below the Yokozuna standard. - The Takakeisho precedent, being denied twice recently with the same score. - He was 8-7 in September. - Only his 2nd yusho, and he doesn't have a ton of jun yusho either. - He still loses matches in an un-Yokozuna-like manner every tournament (eg. Hiradoumi) Whether the YDC will consider these factors, potentially others I'm ignoring, and how they will balance them I have no idea. I could see the first one (winning the yusho while being on a run) taking precedence over everything else and earning him promotion... just as easily as I could see them saying 12-3/25-2 isn't good enough and asking for one more result in March. Curious to know what others think.
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6 pointsInteresting, my perception of sumo fandom is that he has been one of the most heavily hyped and highly rated for several years now. Before he even reached ozeki I saw numerous predictions that he'd reach the highest rank. If anything, I'd say he's slightly behind the timeline that many fans predicted for him (e.g. post below).
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6 pointsBelief in the Uniad nature of Abi was found heretical and was condemned by the Third Council of Constantinople.
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6 pointsLike I said, Kinbozan's yuusho run is looking rather unstoppable at the moment.
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6 pointsYeah, Hoshoryu is a perfectly fine yokozuna contender (in general, I mean, not specific to this basho) simply by virtue of performing as an above-average ozeki over the last year and a bit. Anyway, he wasn't "given" a tsunatori, he earned it with last basho's performance, same as any other ozeki would have with the same results in this era. Why would anyone want the guys in charge to dismiss his chances outright before they've had an opportunity to see what follow-up he's capable of?
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6 pointsGood Day 4, everyone! A few sparse thought after watching the bouts live. Tamawashi is on a goddamn fire. He dealt with TRAPSerufuji easy peasy. He can do a lot of damage from M10. Watch out, big guns! Chiyoshoma is just the usual 'Shoma but keeps winning. He doesn't give grand vibes, but I can see him do good and reach the Joy with ease for Haru. Oho - who is this crafty kid on the dohyo?! He robbed Daieisho of his win there! That arm pull was sick. Time to get to the san'yaku perhaps? Now, the Ozeki. Onosato bridge is falling down over and over. Daiki boy, if you really want to keep falling upwards, at least look up to Ura and do it fashionably. Hoshoryu - wow! True danger there! Takanosho "almost won" for the fourth day in a row. Props to the Nephew for keeping his cool and running tables around. I also feel bad for 'Nosho, 0-4 despite all his efforts. And... Kotozakura goes 1-3, gifting Kirby his first win. Given how bad his record against Kirishima is, the JSA really saved him by stripping their match in Kyushu. Finally, Terunofuji's knees failed him in the the musubi no ichiban. Tobizaru made him work Kotozakura-style until his knees clearly gave up. The mission is now "go through the full 15 days to meet Hoshoryu", I believe. Let's see if he can do that. If he starts losing more, he'll have to withdraw. For the final comments, Hoshoryu remains by far the favored for the yusho for yet another day. The tournament is still long and the arasoi often changes after Day 10 (when the big boys begin to meet each other), but I cannot see the current san'yaku to be overly troublesome for this Nephew. Abi and Daieisho look more dangerous than the rest of san'yaku, but the Nephew knows them also. Further spoilers might come from the non-joy Maegashira (Oho, Chiyoshoma, Tamawashi), in case they manage to keep up with their current rhythm through two weeks. Be careful with using "of all time" in Ozumo There is plenty of... interesting runs in the records. Most runs between the 1930s and the 1950s are quite the spectacle. Outright bogus runs (Musashiyama, Minanogawa), full use of equivalents (Akinoumi, Terukuni, Maedayama), single career Yusho propelling a promotion (Yoshibayama). The situation was somewhat stabilized from Tochinishiki onwards (1954), but a few Yokozuna were still given an easy hand of cards. Full equivalent promotions include Wakanohana II (1978, a single Yusho one year before), Mienoumi (1979, a single Yusho four years before), and of course Futahaguro (1986, no Yusho whatsoever). Anyway, Hoshoryu's run looks certainly weak in the post-Futahaguro era. However, it can be easily compared with the pre-Yokozuna career of Tochinoumi (promoted 1964) and Kitanofuji (1970, although they made him work for his promotion). Also Kakuryu had a relatively unimpressive career, although he got a couple of high pitched JY on his way up. But let's say this: Hoshoryu's sumo definitively stepped up - playing at the same level for two tournaments straight show that. The back-to-back "or equivalent" rule does exist to certify a change of pace more than having a minimal number of Yusho for the newly promoted Yokozuna. Sure, everyone would feel safer to get a stronger Yokozuna at the helm - but Kotozakura and especially Onosato are in fall season with no change of pacing on sight. We must also notice that the JSA is forced to not be too picky in the current environment. In a sense, we are without a Yokozuna since 2022, and yet no one stepped up to the challenge. The field appears leveled enough to hamper the emergence of a dominant figure. Onosato looks like the one who will change this soon, but he must stop falling facepalm first. If Hoshoryu shows he's the guy to defeat to win any Yusho in the near future, let's give him the rope. Also, please notice that he still have to meet the minimal requirements. He's almost certainly not going to be promoted with an halfhearted Yusho. It's the hardest part of his current challenge actually. Otherwise, Takakeisho would gave gotten the rope back in 2023 given that the situation with Terunofuji was already very apparent back then.
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6 pointsTenrousei (18) against Hikarumusashi (19) happened in Maezumo today. Tenrousei won by tsukiotoshi. He is another nephew of ex Asashouryuu. Hikarimusashi is the nephew of ex-Musashimaru. So it was interesting. Flags still missing;