Ichinojo intai

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

8 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I think a lot of people forget that part of the equation, that he comes from a nomadic tribe while all the other Mongolians have been city dwellers.  I've always thought that a lot of his problems have been adjusting to being in such a different world from when he was a child.

Agree 100%. I don't think he ever became acclimated to Japanese culture, and likely never really had the capacity to do so.

I've seen my fair share of bright-eyed gaijin who've professed love for all things Japan, studied the language, come to live here, and then turn bitter and jaded. So it's not the least bit surprising that Ichinojo met a similar fate. 

While I don't have any tolerance for people who come to Japan and blatantly disrespect the cultural norms when they should know better, I do hope he gets help with his alcoholism and finds an environment in which he can be happy. 

[dada78641 884]

I feel for Ichinojo. It's clear he's in a really bad place, and when you're in a situation like that it's very easy to fall into addictive behaviors.

Also, maybe I'm being too charitable by saying this, but having chronic back pain that can't be properly alleviated by pain medication is certainly something that can drive people to drink. I'm not saying that's the explanation, but maybe it made the problem worse and made him feel even more like he has no relief in sight.

[junsan 196]

Now Icchan will be free to booze and party whenever he wants!

[code_number3 708]

 

13 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Agree 100%. I don't think he ever became acclimated to Japanese culture, and likely never really had the capacity to do so.

I've seen my fair share of bright-eyed gaijin who've professed love for all things Japan, studied the language, come to live here, and then turn bitter and jaded. So it's not the least bit surprising that Ichinojo met a similar fate. 

He was Tottori Johoku student, part of their sumo team, and coached his school team. Even now he is a Japanese named Miura Takashi (三浦 駿). How do you think he is "never became acclimated to Japanese culture and likely never really had the capacity to do so"? 

I agree on your second paragraph about "love for all things". He has bokh background, firstly joined Tottori Johoku's judo team until the sumo coach asked him to transfer to sumo club. He had a potential to be top sumo wrestler. He was a national amateur champion, hence he started Ozumo at Ms15TD. He rise up fast and steadied his sumo journey was quite consistent on kachi-koshi, with some ups and downs. He even tried to become Japanese so he (maybe) can continue his life at sumo, as an oyakata or his school's coach.

4 hours ago, dada78641 said:

I feel for Ichinojo. It's clear he's in a really bad place, and when you're in a situation like that it's very easy to fall into addictive behaviors.

Also, maybe I'm being too charitable by saying this, but having chronic back pain that can't be properly alleviated by pain medication is certainly something that can drive people to drink. I'm not saying that's the explanation, but maybe it made the problem worse and made him feel even more like he has no relief in sight.

Comes his back injury issue. His huge weight (recorded maximum at 227 kg) is the biggest risk to exacerbate his back pain. He has been troubled by back pain since 2016, maybe until today. He had tried to reduced his back pain by losing weight. His back pain influenced his sumo playing or even his lifestyle. His chronic pain makes his lifestyle choice even worse. His alcoholism and some violence done, in my opinion, is his coping mechanism to relieve his stress. (Even this is not a right thing to cope with your emotion, don't break your body, or other people, even worse)

13 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

While I don't have any tolerance for people who come to Japan and blatantly disrespect the cultural norms when they should know better, I do hope he gets help with his alcoholism and finds an environment in which he can be happy. 

But I have disagreement on this statement. Yes, his attitude was a disrespect of the cultural norms. But by leaving sumo entirely, in my opinion, he is trying to keep sumo's face good. As we have known some rikishis had bad face facing sumo world. He is trying to respect the hinkaku of sumo. He doesn't want sumo has a face of violence or bad behaviour. Now he is using his capacity to respect sumo even more (even this is a long way to go, but still, at least he tries).

Let us hope he gets help that he needs (chronic back pain, alcoholism, violent conduct) and have kachi-koshi on his second life outside sumo.

 

Bonus content

Spoiler

Still imprinted on my mind

I watched Natsu Basho 2018 on tv, it was Ichinojo vs Kaisei match

Then my mom came across and said "Holy mother of God, those bosoms are everywhere!"

 

[Kotomiyama 174]

I feel for Ichinojo. Alcoholism is a society-alienating and life-ending addiction. If leaving sumo and returning home is his path to sobriety, so be it. My only wish is for him to recover. The rest is secondary.

[Asashosakari 19,669]

2 hours ago, code_number3 said:

He was Tottori Johoku student, part of their sumo team, and coached his school team. Even now he is a Japanese named Miura Takashi (三浦 駿). How do you think he is "never became acclimated to Japanese culture and likely never really had the capacity to do so"? 

I'm speculating wildly, but is it possible that Ichinojo was okay as long as his life was highly regimented (which I daresay applies to life in a private high school as well, if not as much as to Ozumo), but that he might have found it hard to cope with the relative freedoms afforded to sekitori? Obviously they're still under much closer watch than the average Japanese, but perhaps it was less "not acclimated to Japanese culture" and more "struggled with the Tokyoite lifestyle" specifically?

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

5 hours ago, code_number3 said:

He was Tottori Johoku student, part of their sumo team, and coached his school team. Even now he is a Japanese named Miura Takashi (三浦 駿). How do you think he is "never became acclimated to Japanese culture and likely never really had the capacity to do so"? 

You can do all those things, that is, go through all the motions, and still not become acclimated here.

It's very easy to feel like an outsider in Japan, even when you're doing your best to fit in. And eventually, the stress of that situation can be overwhelming and result in going in "I just don't give a s**t anymore mode," which is where Ichinojo appears to be.

I've seen it here more times than I can count. Bright-eyed gaijin who come here full of hope and expectation, and a few years later, leave bitter and jaded, and want nothing further to do with Japan. It's a sad but not uncommon occurrence.

Contrast Ichinojo with Hakuho, who appears to have fully embraced his Japanese life here and looks right at home in Japan. 

And as for my comment about blatant disrespect for Japanese cultural norms, repeatedly partying loudly into the night with zero regard for your neighbors and disrespecting your shisho just isn't the way things are done here. 

 It could be that his discomfort and stress led to his excessive drinking. Or maybe he simply had a predisposition toward alcoholism, and that alone ruined what would have otherwise been a nice life here.

Ultimately only he knows. 

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

Jumping on the armchair-psychologists' bandwagon: Isn't the subjective perception of the level of one own's grounding a dividing line between the insanely talented and the insanely successful?

[Jabbamaru 167]

Omg im a sumo orphan now... Bummer. Cant believe my baby is gone.

[I am the Yokozuna 194]

I feel he might have done something that might have him expelled/dismissed from sumo world and by retiring himself he has left the kakkai with some dignity and some money. 
But this is pure speculation on my part.

other reasons given so far have witnessed a lot of rikishis who have survived and continued to fight as long as they did not cause any serious issues and reputation damage for the kakkai.

[Akinomaki 40,811]

Asahi geinou (tabloid)) sums it up pretty good, without emphasizing which side is to blame. The back pain of course is tatemae, the reason is the deterioration of the shisho-deshi relationship to sub-zero levels on both sides. Minato apparently had enough after the scandal last year and the partying was more or less the last straw. The problem is that the foreigners can't chose a heya. Ichinojo was originally scouted by Takanohana and he had him stay at the heya, but he already had Takanoiwa and asked Minato to raise Ichinojo properly, praising his yusho potential.  http://www.asagei.com/excerpt/260051

[gunner 10]

I always enjoyed his Sumo. If it were not for alcohol I believe He would be ozeki and maybe YOKOZUNA> heavy drinking is a unfortunate part of sumo culture. Some people should not drink . a couple of Mongolian Yokozuna's are an example

[Adil 232]

I haven't been following sumo as closely as I used to because I am busy with other stuff. I just got a message from a Japanese friend telling me that Ichinojo has retired, and my jaw dropped to the floor, like many others. It was great watching him for a while, although he was so frustrating at times because I always got the feeling that he could have done so much more. In many of his matches, he was so listless and lethargic. I understand that there could be many reasons for that (injuries etc.). In any case, I made a prediction 5 years ago saying that he won't go too far. Many people were still holding on to hopes of him becoming the next dominant yokozuna (reasonable expectation, considering his incredible start), and for a while, I had hopes too. However, I decided to jump off the bandwagon in January 2018. Yes, he did stay in sanyaku during 2018 after the hatsu basho, but that was the pinnacle of his career. After that, he only had the odd basho in sanyaku here and there in the last 4 years of his career (4 times in total). Yes, he did win a basho during that time, but so did Tokushoryu, Wakatakakage, Daieisho and many others. 

There is a lot of talk about the rumors regarding him being unhappy, having a drinking problem, the oyakata owing him money etc. Quite frankly, is he the only rikishi with problems? I find that hard to believe. Being an outsider, I would have no way of knowing the extent of his outside-the-dohyo problems, but I don't think they are any more severe than what the other rikishi go through. In any case, I don't think he would have let these problems force him out of sumo if he was dominant on the dohyo and winning several basho a year. He was a good rikishi who had an above average career, whose main strength was his incredible size, power and speed (yes, for a guy that size, he sure could move) with which he was able to rise to makuuchi, but he was not good enough to rise beyond that. Let's not forget, to get to the top in any field, one doesn't just need talent or aptitude; one also needs discipline, drive, hunger, the will to survive, the ability to overcome all challenges etc. 

Was he forced to retire because of a new transgression that was more serious than what he had done before? Maybe yes, maybe not. There is no way of knowing that at this moment. Regardless, even if he had stayed on, there wasn't a high probability that his career trajectory would have been any different from what it has been.     

For those of you who are interested, here is my post from January 2018 about what I expected Ichinojo's future to be:

 

 

[bettega 431]

I guess that is an oyakata problem plus a heavy spirits addiction 

 

I'll miss him

Edited May 15, 2023 by bettega

[Kintamayama 45,533]

Ichinojou is having his danpatsushiki at a local hotel on February 11th, he told reporters in his first interview since he retired. “It’s a private function so I’m not sure my former Oyakata or my heyamates will come. I do hope some of my Mongolian rikishi and Oyakata friends will, though.. I still don’t know how many people will be participating, but it will be open to the public and will start at 5pm. I hope members of the general public would do some cutting as well. It is a Sunday and the next day is a holiday so people can come from far and wide..” he said. Since it will not be held at the Kokugikan , we will never get to see him in a mawashi again. Minato Oyakata responded to a phone call. “Really? This is the first I’ve heard of it. We are corresponding only through lawyers . Will I be going? How can I go if I’m not invited?” he mused.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Kintamayama

[dingo 1,296]

Wow, I certainly hope he has it better thought out than "I'm just gonna stand here in a hotel and hope someone shows up". Based on this info I'm not too confident he actually has. 

[rokudenashi 328]

Not exactly related, but I think that’s the first time I’ve seen a post get every type of reaction. A reflection of the enigma that is Ichinojō, perhaps.

Edit: Ahem, almost every type of reaction, before @Katooshu politely saved me.

Edited November 6, 2023 by rokudenashi

[just_some_guy 284]

On 04/11/2023 at 17:30, Kintamayama said:

Ichinojou is having his danpatsushiki at a local hotel on February 11th, he told reporters in his first interview since he retired. “It’s a private function so I’m not sure my former Oyakata or my heyamates will come. I do hope some of my Mongolian rikishi and Oyakata friends will, though.. I still don’t know how many people will be participating, but it will be open to the public and will start at 5pm. I hope members of the general public would do some cutting as well. It is a Sunday and the next day is a holiday so people can come from far and wide..” he said. Since it will not be held at the Kokugikan , we will never get to see him in a mawashi again. Minato Oyakata responded to a phone call. “Really? This is the first I’ve heard of it. We are corresponding only through lawyers . Will I be going? How can I go if I’m not invited?” he mused.

The two parts above that I have put in bold are confusing me.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

2 minutes ago, just_some_guy said:

The two parts above that I have put in bold are confusing me.

That's not the worst of it, as it can just be handwaved as "it's private to you". 

[Kamitsuumi 402]

Private as in not tied to the JSA

[Gurowake 4,109]

Publicly-traded companies are private entities.  The names aren't always mutually exclusive.

[Kintamayama 45,533]

Ichinojou gave a very, very long interview to Nikkan today, speaking about everything from his upcoming danpatsushiki to his relationship with his Oyakata. Short summary:

No regrets about retiring. "I got the yusho right before that, right? So no regrets. I hope women will also be among those that cut my hair. Not sure who will do the final cut yet (usually done by the oyakata). Alcohol? Everyone drinks too much when they're socializing once in a while. I was even labeled as an 'alcoholic' in a weekly magazine. But I want my fans to judge for themselves. What's the truth? Even now, I sometimes drink with friends  but we don't drink too much. I'm going to live in Japan and have a second life, so I hope you'll continue to support me.'' At the end of the retirement press conference, the oyakata and Ichinojou turned their backs, and left in different directions,.which was seen as a sign of the feud. Immediately after walking out the door, he said he didn't "have any particular conversations" with his mentor.  According to Minato Oyakata, since the end of Ichinojou's active career, they have only had contact with each other through their lawyers. Even now, there is no direct communication, and the relationship between the two remains distant However, Ichinojou did not mention the feud with his master. "Sumo raised me. Sumo makes you tough, strong, and kind. I am where I am today because I learned a lot through sumo. I still love sumo." When asked about his feelings toward the Oyakata and his wife, he said, ``It's true that they took care of me, and I will never forget my feelings of gratitude." He now has a new goal in life, the hair cutting ceremony, and was smiling as if a weight had been lifted from his chest.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Kintamayama

[Kintamayama 45,533]

Part 2- the present:

He currently lives alone in a rented apartment in the metropolitan area. " I no longer have any tsukebitos  Since I don't  have a driver's license, my associates drive me  to greet my supporters. I basically take care of all my fundamental needs myself. I live in a 3LDK apartment. However, I still have a lot of luggage. Akeni, keshomawashi.. One room is only full of luggage. Also, the toilet is small (laughs). But it's fun. I do cleaning and laundry myself but I used to do it at the heya, so I don't have any problems. When my mood 'turns on', I do it all at once. It takes a while for it to turn on, though.. I want to get a driver's license someday.'' Regarding his weight: ``I don't think it has changed.'' He doesn't have a scale nearby that can measure weights over 200 kg, so he doesn't know exactly. ``I haven't been on a diet at all. My appetite is the same as when I was active. However, I haven't been practicing as much as I did when I was active, so my body may have lost its tension and I may look smaller.'' Before coming to Japan to study  he used to cook for his younger sister and younger brother. In sumo, he made his debut  at Makushita 15, and was promoted to Juryo after three bashos. Since he had no experience making chanko as a junior, he says, ``I told them I can't make chanko.'' However, he currently prefers to cook ``chanko-style'' hot pot dishes. ``I make a lot of Mongolian dishes, but I put bonito flakes and various vegetables in a pot and eat the meat like shabu-shabu. I cut the vegetables myself. There's a supermarket nearby, so I go buy them myself. I sometimes go out to eat with supporters, but at home I cook my own food. I like cooking. I eat two meals a day, lunch and dinner, just like I did during my active days.."  He says that the back pain he cited as the reason for his retirement is improving,, ``I feel good now. I'm in good shape.''

 

[Seiyashi 4,108]

12 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

When my mood 'turns on', I do it all at once. It takes a while for it to turn on, though..

Oh no. That doesn't sound great.

[Kintamayama 45,533]

Part 3:The future

Regarding the future, he emphasized that he has no idea. "I'm thinking about a lot of things, but nothing has been decided. I'll focus on the hair cutting ceremony first, and then I'll move on. Actor? Not really. I'll be going back and forth between Japan and Mongolia, but most of the time I'll be in Japan. I think that since I live in Japan, it will be easier to do many things if I have my Japanese nationality. For now, I am not thinking about changing back to a Mongolian nationality. I will definitely not be able to live without doing anything. It costs a lot of money (utilities, etc.). After the haircut ceremony, I want to focus on the next thing. I want to work mainly in Japan." Any plans to get married in the future?. "No, no, I don't have any (laughs). If I had a  wife , she would probably be helping me prepare for the hair cutting ceremony, which would have been been great.. That's why I have to prepare everything by myself. A fiancée? I don't have one..." He did show  a bitter smile here and there, but he seemed to be looking forward to his second life. After his retirement, he hardly watched any sumo matches on TV, ``Just checking the results,'' he said, perhaps trying to show that he has moved on..  At the end of the interview, he explained ``Please write positively - this is what I want to convey right now and how I feel right now.'' Then he thought for a moment and added, ``Thank you for everything.'' It's been half a year since his shocking  retirement  Looking back on his active career, it seems that his strongest feeling is his gratitude towards his fans.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Kintamayama