Seiyashi 4,087 Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Yarimotsu said: Last rikishi to use a waridashi to go 10-0? Futabayama. Coincidence? I THINK NOT!!!! This is a very old and dated reference. Edited March 21, 2023 by Seiyashi 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koorifuu 994 Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) I haven't watched many bouts today but already got plenty of impressions... ...still the most striking is that Meisei and Myogiryu aren't going to have enjoyable latter years. The sheer amount of CONK noises you can hear on their tachiais is just scary. Edited March 21, 2023 by Koorifuu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dingo 1,263 Posted March 21, 2023 For the past year or so, I always thought of Wakamotoharu as a somewhat weaker version of his younger brother, but this basho he's putting on a much more solid and confident display than Wakatakakage. Older brother taking his rightful place? Be that as it may, it's exciting to see two brothers up at sanyaku level. Midorifuji employed a rare kimarite but from the way it worked on Tobizaru it might have as well been magic. Midorifuji the Weeny Wizard? Midorifuji's chasers are shaping up quite nicely as well. Kotonowaka got a supremely confident win against Abi, and the Mongolian duo of Kiribayama and Hoshoryuu got their jobs done too. It's gonna be a really exciting last few days! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I am the Yokozuna 193 Posted March 21, 2023 Ipponseoi Waridashi 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 4,052 Posted March 21, 2023 19 hours ago, Andreas21 said: As many times before, I reckon the Torikumi is badly done. I mean, Midorifuji is in form and shows very good Sumo. But the 9:0 is partly an artifact that they fail to react to results. The highest opponent was M4 - and that as M5. As can be seen here they stick too much to the blocks. This way, hiramaku yusho and paternoster movements are manufactured. Besides Midorifuji who finally gets Sanyaku opponents, there are further useless, unproductive pairings. What is the basis for the 10th day paring S1e Wakatakakage - M5e Kotoshoho 1:8 ? Add injujry to insult for poor Kotoshoho! I mean, he's too high for his current ability. But is his form that bad? The Torikumi makers could have placed an M10/M11 opponent to find out ... What is the objective of Kinbozan M14e 6:3 - Takayasu M7w 7:2 ? We know that Takayasu is fresh back from an injury which pulled him down in the rankings. Before that he stacked two Jun Yusho, one from M1. The Torikumi makers surely want to ignore this, probably to objectivity. Do they want to create another Hiramaku Yusho? I mean, Kinbozan is doing very well in his Makuuchi debut. But at 6:3 not too well ! It's not that a big threat of a Tokushoyu-like Yusho, right? And it's very important that they stick to the Jo-i block by paring Ryuden M2w 1:8 - Tamawashi M1 (1:8 but recent Yusho winner), when it's damn obvious Ryuden is placed too high. Only to finally omit one of the intra-Sekiwake parings which they kept to the last day only to then decide to redirect it to a Hiramaku contender which they failed to address earlier. Then it is not so important to fill the Jo-i block completely. This is so foreseeable stupid. Part of the problem is, and I mentioned it before, that they stick to the stupid tradition to announce the Torikumi of the next day before current bouts are finished. There's a ton of stuff I could say on this topic, but this is the busiest time of year at work for me, so you're somewhat "lucky" that I can't dedicate the time needed to explain all of these things. Maybe another torikumi guru will take a shot. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Seiyashi 4,087 Posted March 21, 2023 42 minutes ago, Gurowake said: There's a ton of stuff I could say on this topic, but this is the busiest time of year at work for me, so you're somewhat "lucky" that I can't dedicate the time needed to explain all of these things. Maybe another torikumi guru will take a shot. @Reonito @Sakura @Sumo Spiffy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumo Spiffy 560 Posted March 21, 2023 20 hours ago, Andreas21 said: As many times before, I reckon the Torikumi is badly done. I mean, Midorifuji is in form and shows very good Sumo. But the 9:0 is partly an artifact that they fail to react to results. The highest opponent was M4 - and that as M5. As can be seen here they stick too much to the blocks. This way, hiramaku yusho and paternoster movements are manufactured. Besides Midorifuji who finally gets Sanyaku opponents, there are further useless, unproductive pairings. What is the basis for the 10th day paring S1e Wakatakakage - M5e Kotoshoho 1:8 ? Add injujry to insult for poor Kotoshoho! I mean, he's too high for his current ability. But is his form that bad? The Torikumi makers could have placed an M10/M11 opponent to find out ... What is the objective of Kinbozan M14e 6:3 - Takayasu M7w 7:2 ? We know that Takayasu is fresh back from an injury which pulled him down in the rankings. Before that he stacked two Jun Yusho, one from M1. The Torikumi makers surely want to ignore this, probably to objectivity. Do they want to create another Hiramaku Yusho? I mean, Kinbozan is doing very well in his Makuuchi debut. But at 6:3 not too well ! It's not that a big threat of a Tokushoyu-like Yusho, right? And it's very important that they stick to the Jo-i block by paring Ryuden M2w 1:8 - Tamawashi M1 (1:8 but recent Yusho winner), when it's damn obvious Ryuden is placed too high. Only to finally omit one of the intra-Sekiwake parings which they kept to the last day only to then decide to redirect it to a Hiramaku contender which they failed to address earlier. Then it is not so important to fill the Jo-i block completely. This is so foreseeable stupid. Part of the problem is, and I mentioned it before, that they stick to the stupid tradition to announce the Torikumi of the next day before current bouts are finished. The Nerdsignal lit up the sky, and so... If you want a seriously deep dive, that can be done. But most of what you're talking about can be referred back to this point: schedule makers look at rank for making matchups. In the second half of the basho, those matchups are adjusted for record, more and more as we get closer to the end. Whether or not a guy is over-ranked for his actual skill level is completely, entirely, 100% irrelevant. If you're K1 or M5 or M17, you're treated as being in that rank because you earned it and you're supposed to be there. If you got lucky or just had the basho of your life and got too close to the sun, well, you're about to get a better lesson about the story of Icarus than most. It's worth noting that record-based matchups appeared to start a little early this time due to how quickly people were flying to the extremes of the record spectrum. Usually it starts happening around day nine; this time it looked like adjustments were made for day seven. This has accelerated how soon we see wider gaps in the ranks of opponents. But the matchups themselves aren't unusual for late in the basho. As for Waka Prime/Kotoboohoo, they were lined up to fight because that's the nature of how sanyaku wrestlers are scheduled. It would have been broken and replaced with a different matchup if Waka had been doing well, but with a losing record, it was decided the match should go forward. That's also pretty normal—guys with godawful records will eventually only face other guys with losing records, but sometimes those are barely-losing records. 4 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reonito 1,457 Posted March 21, 2023 20 hours ago, Andreas21 said: What is the objective of Kinbozan M14e 6:3 - Takayasu M7w 7:2 ? We know that Takayasu is fresh back from an injury which pulled him down in the rankings. Before that he stacked two Jun Yusho, one from M1. The Torikumi makers surely want to ignore this, probably to objectivity. Do they want to create another Hiramaku Yusho? I mean, Kinbozan is doing very well in his Makuuchi debut. But at 6:3 not too well ! It's not that a big threat of a Tokushoyu-like Yusho, right? Also this did not age well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hakutorizakura 629 Posted March 21, 2023 Oh wow, the smallest guy is now 10-0. Alone. I'm starting to suspect that Isegahama has somehow managed to use some dark magic to soul-switch Teruno and Midori. Or an instant slimming spell plus face-shifting for the former. I'm almost certain that's Teru on the dohyo. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,969 Posted March 21, 2023 Since nobody mentioned it yet: Tochinoshin's fumidashi loss was actually backing away from Oshoma in pain. It's unlikely he'll appear tomorrow, if ever again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yamanashi 3,840 Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said: Since nobody mentioned it yet: Tochinoshin's fumidashi loss was actually backing away from Oshoma in pain. It's unlikely he'll appear tomorrow, if ever again. 1) Tochinoshin disengaged right after trying a pull using his left arm. He was holding his left upper chest; it looked more like the major rather than the minor pec muscle, and he was in pain all the way down the hanamichi. 2) I hadn't noticed previously, but Oshoma had taping on his right shoulder/chest, so evidently there was a previous injury for him. Edited March 21, 2023 by Yamanashi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chartorenji 235 Posted March 21, 2023 15 hours ago, Seiyashi said: Speaking of Kiribayama: Is he sponsored by Ferrari or something? Someone really wants him to make the push for Ozeki lmao. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sumo Spiffy 560 Posted March 21, 2023 37 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said: Oh wow, the smallest guy is now 10-0. Alone. I'm starting to suspect that Isegahama has somehow managed to use some dark magic to soul-switch Teruno and Midori. Or an instant slimming spell plus face-shifting for the former. I'm almost certain that's Teru on the dohyo. I think you're about as close to the truth as you could be. Midori's tactics, and ability to react to what his opponent is doing instantly, speaks to extremely good preparation. That has to be Teru and Isegahama getting him ready in detail for every match. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robnplunder 975 Posted March 21, 2023 I am sorry to see Mitakeumi's continuing decline. He seems to lack strength. OTOH, Shodai looked good so far. The brightest spot in this basho IMO is Midorfifuji. I can't believe Midorifuji is still unbeaten and has a two-bout lead from his closest pursuer. Yusho is within reach. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
robnplunder 975 Posted March 21, 2023 20 hours ago, Kaninoyama said: He IS very good. Not at all a fluke. But he's also very small in sekitori terms, which usually limits how he and similarly small-statured rikishi can ultimately climb up the sumo ladder. A taste of sanyaku and regular visits to joi would be a respectable career for Midorifuji. If he can somehow snag a yusho in Osaka with a depleted field, that would be a career-maker for him. Well put. I only hope he avoids major injuries. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bettega 431 Posted March 21, 2023 Injuries occur in all sports. How you deal with them, how you avoid and treat them is what makes you on top or not. Luck doesn't have as much to do as people say. Including, most professional sportsmen report that they are always in pain or injured, but look for a way to overcome it during competitions. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Morty 1,495 Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, robnplunder said: I am sorry to see Mitakeumi's continuing decline. He seems to lack strength. He's closing in on a sixth straight MK in a row. At his best he was always Mr Reliable - you knew he would get a respectable KK and be a challenge for the top guys. He's still Mr Reliable, just the other way around now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tsuchinoninjin 1,269 Posted March 22, 2023 I keep going back and forth. Back in the Hakuho and the big six ozeki days you always had so many classic matchups in the second half of the basho, everyone with very established styles. You could really anticipate what might happen. Now, even for the guys who are up there all the time are just so dynamic. Whats better? I dunno. I can tell some people are frustrated though because they are looking for someone to step up, and now Midorifuji has a two win lead - its just more frustration because nobody believes this is the 'guy'. Like its fools gold and we're all digging for the real diamond. Oops, not that one. That's Hokuseiho and his sumo is going to be exposed soon, so put him aside. Even in Kintamayama's bout selection, putting in Ochiai's torikumi all the time - maybe hinting this is the guy. One of the guys. Kinbouzan too? All the small guys run around doing tsuppari and the really big guys are locking up on the belts. Nothing really makes sense! 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 722 Posted March 22, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said: I keep going back and forth. Back in the Hakuho and the big six ozeki days you always had so many classic matchups in the second half of the basho, everyone with very established styles. You could really anticipate what might happen. Now, even for the guys who are up there all the time are just so dynamic. Whats better? I dunno. I can tell some people are frustrated though because they are looking for someone to step up, and now Midorifuji has a two win lead - its just more frustration because nobody believes this is the 'guy'. Like its fools gold and we're all digging for the real diamond. Oops, not that one. That's Hokuseiho and his sumo is going to be exposed soon, so put him aside. Even in Kintamayama's bout selection, putting in Ochiai's torikumi all the time - maybe hinting this is the guy. One of the guys. Kinbouzan too? All the small guys run around doing tsuppari and the really big guys are locking up on the belts. Nothing really makes sense! 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
I am the Yokozuna 193 Posted March 22, 2023 Nichonage in Jonidan (rather clumsy) Sokubiotoshi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 722 Posted March 22, 2023 Wasn't it a "dead body rule" example? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kaninoyama 1,787 Posted March 22, 2023 Midorifuji not unsurprisingly loses and suddenly a slew of riskishi are back in the yusho picture. It won't get any easier for him tomorrow against Wakatakakage. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 40,480 Posted March 22, 2023 About interest in the basho: the waridashi of Midorifuji only was 3rd yesterday in NHK's most watched videos, top of course Asanoyama, but also Ochiai-Atamifuji had more viewers - juryo is the division to watch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Koorifuu 994 Posted March 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Akinomaki said: About interest in the basho: the waridashi of Midorifuji only was 3rd yesterday in NHK's most watched videos, top of course Asanoyama, but also Ochiai-Atamifuji had more viewers - juryo is the division to watch To be fair, Atamifuji vs Ochiai was a very good bout. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted March 22, 2023 On 21/03/2023 at 06:27, Andreas21 said: As many times before, I reckon the Torikumi is badly done. I mean, Midorifuji is in form and shows very good Sumo. But the 9:0 is partly an artifact that they fail to react to results. The highest opponent was M4 - and that as M5. As can be seen here they stick too much to the blocks. This way, hiramaku yusho and paternoster movements are manufactured. Besides Midorifuji who finally gets Sanyaku opponents, there are further useless, unproductive pairings. What is the basis for the 10th day paring S1e Wakatakakage - M5e Kotoshoho 1:8 ? Add injujry to insult for poor Kotoshoho! I mean, he's too high for his current ability. But is his form that bad? The Torikumi makers could have placed an M10/M11 opponent to find out ... What is the objective of Kinbozan M14e 6:3 - Takayasu M7w 7:2 ? We know that Takayasu is fresh back from an injury which pulled him down in the rankings. Before that he stacked two Jun Yusho, one from M1. The Torikumi makers surely want to ignore this, probably to objectivity. Do they want to create another Hiramaku Yusho? I mean, Kinbozan is doing very well in his Makuuchi debut. But at 6:3 not too well ! It's not that a big threat of a Tokushoyu-like Yusho, right? And it's very important that they stick to the Jo-i block by paring Ryuden M2w 1:8 - Tamawashi M1 (1:8 but recent Yusho winner), when it's damn obvious Ryuden is placed too high. Only to finally omit one of the intra-Sekiwake parings which they kept to the last day only to then decide to redirect it to a Hiramaku contender which they failed to address earlier. Then it is not so important to fill the Jo-i block completely. This is so foreseeable stupid. Part of the problem is, and I mentioned it before, that they stick to the stupid tradition to announce the Torikumi of the next day before current bouts are finished. Yeah I think that the sumo kyokai should immediately renounce their centuries of torikumi-making wisdom based on the tenets of sumo (Shinto) immediately based on this forum analysis. They will realise the error of their ways and go for cost-analysis and AI-generated optimisation. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites