Latest stock exchange news - kabu, Oyakata transfers, etc.

[WAKATAKE 2,648]

9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Magaki is now Tokitsukaze. For the record.

So does Tokitsuumi get Magaki for the time being?

[Kintamayama 44,785]

Since Tokitsuumi is now officially expelled from the Kyokai, I doubt that.

[Raishu 208]

14 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

So there are four kabu that are scheduled to become vacant after Haru and during the Natsu basho. This means there could be a string of retirements among active rikishi between the next two basho.

- Dekiyama (ex Dewanohana) vacant 5/13/21
- Matsuchiyama (ex Banryuyama) vacant 5/4/21
- Chiganoura (ex Masudayama) vacant 4/10/21
- Kiriyama (ex Kurosegawa) vacant 5/13/21

There is currently only one vacant kabu available for borrowing which is Kimigahama owned by Okinoumi. And I don't think we've heard any news about ex Bushuyama vacating the Kasugayama kabu owned by Ikioi yet.

I've been speculating for myself for a very long time about what will happen with all these shares. After the introduction of the consultant position, we have had kind of a kabu-drought for quite some time and certainly, a few riksihi would have had retired already, hadn't it been for that tricky situation.

Let's take a look and guess (feel free to agree or disagree):

Chiganoura: Very hard to tell tbh. The oyakata's stable had been moved from Dewanoumi-ichimon to Nishonoseki-ichimon with the takeover of his successor, but reports on the forum indicate, he still sees himself connected to the former. Tokiwayama-beya has eligible sekitori already (Takakeisho, Takanosho), so he could potentially equip one of the two with a share. In case he is willing to keep the share in the Dewanoumi-group (also because of political reasons), maybe one of the current loaners might benefit from it (regardless whether it is a loan or a purchase). The Bushuyama/Kasugayama dilemma (as pointed out before) could be solved with Chiganoura. I wouldn't be surprised at all, when we see Bushu switching in April with Ikioi retiring at the same time.

Matsuchiyama: Don't nail me on that one, but I only see two scenarios here.

1.) The share goes to Satoyama, who is currently borrowing Sanoyama (so tricky), because:

• ex-Banryuyama has a direct connection with Onoe and Sanoyama (he trained both of them) and is willing to give his share to the latter
• the move would keep the former Mihogaseki-share in a Mihogaseki offspring stable

2.) One of the eligible sekitori from Kise-beya will get his hands on the kabu, because:

• the Mihogaseki-Kise-connection will play a role
• they simply have eligible active rikishi, who could pay for the share, unlike other powerhouses like Kasugano or Fujishima

Dekiyama: This is more wishful thinking, but I really hope my guy Toyohibiki can swipe up this one and finally gives his body a rest. He has been in Makushita for almost three years now and at age 36 (with a decent sekitori portfolio), he hopefully can stay in the NSK as a trainer. Since Sakaigawa is a Dewanoumi offspring, this connection might help here, too.

Kiriyama: I will go with themistyseas' prediction and give this one to Takarafuji. I'd be more than surprised to see it go somehere else. Takarafuji is from the same stable, he has been sekitori for more than ten years, he hopefully has saved some kabu-money and at age 34, it's definetely a good time to look around for a share. Even if he can continue his career for several more years (his sumo style might allow him to), he can still lend it to someone else. We have plenty of candidates.

Now slaughter me!

Edited February 22, 2021 by Raishu

[Akinomaki 40,222]

Due to the oyakata turning 65 in May, Minezaki-beya disappears after the Haru basho, the 7 rikishi move to same Nishonoseki-ichimon Shibatayama-beya. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20210223/sum21022320430006-n1.html

[Kintamayama 44,785]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Due to the oyakata turning 65 in May, Minezaki-beya disappears after the Haru basho, the 7 rikishi move to same Nishonoseki-ichimon Shibatayama-beya. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20210223/sum21022320430006-n1.html

What about Ginjiro?

[Yubinhaad 11,605]

1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Due to the oyakata turning 65 in May, Minezaki-beya disappears after the Haru basho, the 7 rikishi move to same Nishonoseki-ichimon Shibatayama-beya. http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20210223/sum21022320430006-n1.html

What about Ginjiro?

Kimura Mitsunosuke and Kimura Kazuma also belong to Minezaki-beya, it's possible that they'll be dispersed to different heya rather than send them all to Shibatayama-beya (which already has a Juryo gyoji, Kimura Kichijiro).

Similarly, Shibatayama-beya has two yobidashi already in Katsuyuki and Keisuke, so it could be thought better to send Minezaki's Juryo pair Hiroyuki and Masao elsewhere. As usual we'll just have to wait and see.

[Naganoyama 5,884]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

What about Ginjiro?

 

2 hours ago, Yubinhaad said:

Kimura Mitsunosuke and Kimura Kazuma also belong to Minezaki-beya, it's possible that they'll be dispersed to different heya rather than send them all to Shibatayama-beya (which already has a Juryo gyoji, Kimura Kichijiro).

Similarly, Shibatayama-beya has two yobidashi already in Katsuyuki and Keisuke, so it could be thought better to send Minezaki's Juryo pair Hiroyuki and Masao elsewhere. As usual we'll just have to wait and see.

Hanakago is also at Minezaki and tokoyama Tokoaki.

[Yamanashi 3,793]

4 hours ago, Naganoyama said:

 

Hanakago is also at Minezaki and tokoyama Tokoaki.

Yeah, @Yubinhaad, when are you gonna take care of these guys, too?

[mt fuji 976]

https://hochi.news/articles/20210310-OHT1T50420.html

Hakuho's acquiring Magaki kabu

[Benihana 1,918]

Wow, that's some big news. The guy betting on that must freak out right now. But a smart move. Instead of a kabu that will vanish in a few decades, his name will be tied to that kabu forever, together with Wakanohana II.

[Kintamayama 44,785]

1 hour ago, Benihana said:

Wow, that's some big news. The guy betting on that must freak out right now. But a smart move. Instead of a kabu that will vanish in a few decades, his name will be tied to that kabu forever, together with Wakanohana II.

And Tokitenkuu RIP.

[Asapedroryu 229]

As he can keep "Hakuho" as his oyakata name (like Takanohana did), wouldn't it be more prestigious to create the "Hakuho Heya" and keep the name alive for years after his retirement as a wrestler?

Sure in the future, people that don't know all the history of Sumo would take more notice in rikishi from Hakuho Heya ("oh! That guy that beat all the records!"), than a rikishi from Magaki Heya ("Magaki who? No idea what's that...")

[Kintamayama 44,785]

9 minutes ago, Asapedroryu said:

As he can keep "Hakuho" as his oyakata name (like Takanohana did), wouldn't it be more prestigious to create the "Hakuho Heya" and keep the name alive for years after his retirement as a wrestler?

Sure in the future, people that don't know all the history of Sumo would take more notice in rikishi from Hakuho Heya ("oh! That guy that beat all the records!"), than a rikishi from Magaki Heya ("Magaki who? No idea what's that...")

He will probably do that, but for now I think he needs to acquire a stock, as there are only 2 open ones-Magaki and Kimigahama. When he retires, he can go for the Ichidai toshiyori (which he is certainly eligible of, offered only to outstanding Yokozunae) and use his own active name. Only three have achieved that before him -  Taihou, Kitanoumi and Takanohana. Chiyonofuji actually refused it.

Aside-looks like I'm losing yet another steak..

Edited March 11, 2021 by Kintamayama

[Godango 973]

28 minutes ago, Asapedroryu said:

As he can keep "Hakuho" as his oyakata name (like Takanohana did), wouldn't it be more prestigious to create the "Hakuho Heya" and keep the name alive for years after his retirement as a wrestler?

Sure in the future, people that don't know all the history of Sumo would take more notice in rikishi from Hakuho Heya ("oh! That guy that beat all the records!"), than a rikishi from Magaki Heya ("Magaki who? No idea what's that...")

 

21 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

He will probably do that...

For clarity -- the 'Hakuho' name would only be attached to the heya as long as `Hakuho-oyakata` exists, right?

Similar to how Taiho-beya is now Otake?

[Kishinoyama 582]

39 minutes ago, Houmanumi said:

 

For clarity -- the 'Hakuho' name would only be attached to the heya as long as `Hakuho-oyakata` exists, right?

Similar to how Taiho-beya is now Otake?

That is correct. The Hakuho name would cease to exist when he retires as an oyakata.

[pricklypomegranate 730]

Is Magaki an eligible sanyo name? Some people have speculated that Hakuho's acquisition of Magaki might be an additional safety line should the ichidai toshiyori not come through, but it is primarily a way for Miyagino to remain as a coach, since he is turning 65 soon and will need to switch to an appropriate name if he chooses to stay on. Some have also said that Hakuho was trying to help Toyonoshima out because he is only renting the Izutsu name, which is owned by Kakuryu. What do you guys think?

This is certainly an unexpected move for Hakuho. I thought he would be an oyakata, but not like this!

Edited March 11, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Nantonoyama 248]

25 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Some have also said that Hakuho was trying to help Toyonoshima out because he is only renting the Izutsu name, which is owned by Kakuryu. What do you guys think?

Does Kakuryu own Izutsu? I guess it is destined to be bought by him eventually anyway, but I don't remember reading about it yet

[Iwayama 25]

42 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Is Magaki an eligible sanyo name? Some people have speculated that Hakuho's acquisition of Magaki might be an additional safety line should the ichidai toshiyori not come through, but it is primarily a way for Miyagino to remain as a coach, since he is turning 65 soon and will need to switch to an appropriate name if he chooses to stay on.

Sanyo is something new to me. So if Miyagino retires and is rehired to consult, would he trade kabu with Hakuho? This is in the scenario where Hakuho doesn't get the ichidai toshiyori.

Also, are some kabu ineligible to be Sanyo?

[pricklypomegranate 730]

41 minutes ago, Iwayama said:

Sanyo is something new to me. So if Miyagino retires and is rehired to consult, would he trade kabu with Hakuho? This is in the scenario where Hakuho doesn't get the ichidai toshiyori.

Also, are some kabu ineligible to be Sanyo?

Some names seem to be ineligible for sanyo, otherwise they wouldn't change it, though I am not even sure if Magaki is an eligible name. But yes, it is plausible that if Miyagino becomes a consultant, he swaps the kabu with Miyagino. This doesn't automatically exclude him from ichidai toshiyori, because remember Chiyonofuji was Jinmaku before he accepted Kokonoe. 

[pricklypomegranate 730]

1 hour ago, Nantonoyama said:

Does Kakuryu own Izutsu? I guess it is destined to be bought by him eventually anyway, but I don't remember reading about it yet

It is speculated to be so, as Toyonoshima seems only to be temporarily holding it. Hence, the theory that Hakuho is trying to help Toyonoshima out, or perhaps trying to extend his shisho's coaching career, in addition to having an additional safety line for himself. 

Edited March 11, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[Asashosakari 19,095]

2 hours ago, pricklypomegranate said:

This is certainly an unexpected move for Hakuho. I thought he would be an oyakata, but not like this!

Both Kitanoumi and Takanohana were already holding a regular share before their respective retirements (Onogawa / Fujishima). Granted, for Takanohana it had essentially fallen into his lap due to his brother's departure from the NSK, but it also didn't get loaned out during the two years until Takanohana stepped off the dohyo.

 

48 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Some names seem to be ineligible for sanyo, otherwise they wouldn't change it, though I am not even sure if Magaki is an eligible name.

What has given you the impression that that's how it works?

[Asashosakari 19,095]

From the thread on Azumazeki-beya possibly closing, I'm moving it here because my query below has nothing to do with that:

20 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Nothing really. If the stable closes because the shisho is retiring for age reasons or because he has passed away, it just becomes vacant and will eventually need to be passed on to a new owner within three years (like any kabu owned by somebody who's not a Kyokai member). If the shisho continues to be an active Kyokai member like ex-Takamisakari will do, he simply joins a different stable as an affiliated oyakata, retaining the same name.

Since discussion elsewhere prompted me to look up the actual regulations again, I should add that the Kyokai by-laws (since the 2014 organizational changes) state that retiring oyakata have five years to recommend their desired successor for the kabu. I don't believe we've seen any kabu actually go beyond the old three-year limit without a new permanent holder since then, though, have we?

(And the regulation in question specifically only mentions retiring oyakata, so that leaves plenty of other scenarios. Does anybody buy that either ex-Tosayutaka or ex-Tokitsuumi "recommended" Hakuho here?)

Edited March 11, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Kaninoyama 1,719]

2 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

Does Kakuryu own Izutsu? I guess it is destined to be bought by him eventually anyway, but I don't remember reading about it yet

If he does, he better start warming it up, as he'll be needing it soon. 

[pricklypomegranate 730]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Both Kitanoumi and Takanohana were already holding a regular share before their respective retirements (Onogawa / Fujishima). Granted, for Takanohana it had essentially fallen into his lap due to his brother's departure from the NSK, but it also didn't get loaned out during the two years until Takanohana stepped off the dohyo.

 

What has given you the impression that that's how it works?

I have no idea how it works, but presumably if an oyakata must switch a kabu to remain as sanyo, it means that some kabu are ineligible for sanyo positions right? Or can they just switch to any kabu, just as long as they weren't holding their original one? 

Also, re: Kitanoumi and Takanohana - to be fair, they were a couple of yusho above the ichidai requirement, and thus would be reasonable to think that they wouldn't have this honour. But Hakuho, he was a Mongolian before and would have no use for a kabu until very recently, has more than doubled the requirements, has the 5 year gap and a shisho who is retiring soon. So that's what's weird for me. Can a person own three kabu? 

Edited March 11, 2021 by pricklypomegranate

[fwuzzle23 66]

15 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

I have no idea how it works, but presumably if an oyakata must switch a kabu to remain as sanyo, it means that some kabu are ineligible for sanyo positions right? Or can they just switch to any kabu, just as long as they weren't holding their original one?

The kabu switches are when it's a stablemaster retiring, so they don't have to rename the entire stable in the succession process. Any kabu can theoretically be used by sanyo, but obviously there's going to be more effort put into making sure the more prestigious ones aren't used for that purpose.