Aki 2014 Basho Comments

[Hakuyobaku 33]

Ichinojo:

Second rikishi to beat yokozuna in his debut, after Onishiki beat Kotozakura in 1973.

Second rikishi to go 12-1 in debut after Taiho's debut (Taiho finished 12-3)

Second n 41 years to take the Jun Yusho (assured) as a debut.

The first rikishi to face 2 yokozuna (and 2+ Ozeki) as debut.

(Going after ) Second only yusho as a Makuuchi debut after 1914((!). Not even sure if that counts/is comparable.

I guess all these seconds added up make a first.

And it ain't over.

[krindel 688]

And now for something completely different:

Wakakoyu is not on tomorrow's torikumi. Do you think he's calling it quits?

I wanted to ask the same. A sekitori not being on the next-day torikumi despite a non-fusen loss is very rare and pretty much only possible for low juryo who instantly notify their absence in time to correct the torikumi before publishing. Reasons usually are injury or intai and falling to make-koshi at J14w means demotion to makushita. He is only 30 years old but maybe he saw an open kabu?

it is mentioned on the Withdrawals thread that he indeed retired and took the Shiranui Kabu

Here

Edited September 26, 2014 by krindel

[Tsubame 378]

Second n 41 years to take the Jun Yusho (assured) as a debut.

Here I would add Kotomitsuki, who also achieved a Jun-Yusho in his "real" debut in makuuchi. Of course the officially database said that his debut was a 0-0-15. But I guess you know what I mean.

edit:

And congratulation to Tochinoshin for his fourth back-to-back Yusho. I wonder how he will perform in Makuuchi again. Of course only if they promote him. :-D

Edited September 26, 2014 by Tsubame

[Kintamayama 47,187]

I half-expect Tochinoshin vs. Ichinojo Day 15.

I knew it was a mistake not to promote him...

I'm pretty sure after everything is said and done, Tochinoshin is pretty happy with the additional yusho money envelope, probably his last ever.

He had a good chance for a sansho in makuuchi in this form, no? It's more prestigious I think and it's the same 200 man yen for both.

I'm not that sure he would have done well enough for a sansho. I'd say he would have had to win 12 at least, as the kyokai generally is not impressed by a 10 win returning rikishi.. I'm not sure he's THAT good.

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

Baruto returned with a 13-2 yusho and got an 11-4 with a sansho next basho. Generally I'm sure that a 15-0 in juryo is worth at least a 12-3 in low makuuchi. If Tochinoshin beats Okinoumi tomorrow I'm totally convinced he would have been good enough for a sansho worthy performance (if he would get one his somewhat doubtful though given his less than friendly banzuke treatment - but sansho are decided by a different comitee).

[Andreas21 219]

I don't think it often, but today in Hakuho-Goeido I believe Hakuho is handing him a gift - his Kachikoshi. Hakuhos right was already inside, on the Mawashi, he just had to grab it and with a Moro zashi he had won it in seconds. He reached the outside and in Migi yotsu it was par. No way, Goeido would have pushed him that easily. Not without a serious defense like in the Osuna bout.

Ichinojo is so nervous. I believe he doesn't even realize the situation.

I don't think we will see more Henkas of him. He played this card this time, Kakuryu did not expect it. But he can't do it many more times. He is too heavy, it is possible to read it - if you are alert.

I'm a bit afraid for him. It is too fast. I wonder if he can handle the situation if he is figured out by somebody, and then everybody can use the weak spot.

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

I welcome you. You will be contacted soon.

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

I don't think it often, but today in Hakuho-Goeido I believe Hakuho is handing him a gift - his Kachikoshi. Hakuhos right was already inside, on the Mawashi, he just had to grab it and with a Moro zashi he had won it in seconds. He reached the outside and in Migi yotsu it was par. No way, Goeido would have pushed him that easily. Not without a serious defense like in the Osuna bout.

ybf will be happy to get another club member - oh, he is on it already... what I saw is that Hakuho *tried* to get the right hand inside but couldn't get quite through since Goeido already established firm grips with tight contact and would have been happy to move Hakuho out with both hands inside without ability to throw. The best he could do is quickly stopping him, but had to get an outside grip for that.

[Monnodo 60]

I am kind of sad. Yeah, Henka is a tactic, Kakuryu should have been prepared and so on... but making Kakuryu believe he is eager to go with the early start and then pulling a Henka, having that planed the whole time is way too sneaky for my taste.

[Chiyozakura 163]

I half-expect Tochinoshin vs. Ichinojo Day 15.

I doubt they will want to have the Makuuchi Yusho decided by a Juryo rikishi. Ichinojo has not faced Aminishiki, yet, who is a seasoned veteran and is having a very good basho so that would be a very good match.

[Propmanoz 1]

My (admittedly very amateur) brain thinks that either a match-up with Aminishiki (as the highest performing other Maegashira at 10-3 (Okinoumi is ranked too low)) or Takekaze (as Sekiwake who will have the motivation of either maintaining his sanyaku spot from 6-8, or maintaining his sekiwake from 7-7) would be the two logical options for Ichinojo on Day 15. Unless they also want to put him up against Kotoshogiku.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Tochnioshin vs Kyokutenho on Day 15 (or is there a hard rule that they won't bring up the same Juryo rikishi more than once?)

Edited September 26, 2014 by Propmanoz

[CT3* 331]

Not trying to re-open the whole henka as a legitimate tactic debate, but Ichinojo's win over Kakuryu felt really, really cheap. Probably the most anticipated bout of the day and he opts for the henka?

Exciting day of sumo, but that ending left a foul taste in my mouth.

[Asashosakari 20,225]

My (admittedly very amateur) brain thinks that either a match-up with Aminishiki (as the highest performing other Maegashira at 10-3 (Okinoumi is ranked too low)) or Takekaze (as Sekiwake who will have the motivation of either maintaining his sanyaku spot from 6-8, or maintaining his sekiwake from 7-7) would be the two logical options for Ichinojo on Day 15. Unless they also want to put him up against Kotoshogiku.

Ichinojo and Okinoumi already met. FWIW, I think it's more likely that they decide to break up the planned Kise-Giku match (to do Giku-Ichi) than that they break up Goeido-Takekaze (to do Takekaze-Ichi).

[Tsubame 378]

Not trying to re-open the whole henka as a legitimate tactic debate, but Ichinojo's win over Kakuryu felt really, really cheap. Probably the most anticipated bout of the day and he opts for the henka?

Exciting day of sumo, but that ending left a foul taste in my mouth.

But it is still a sport. And the sportsmen earn a salary. And this salary is coupled to their performance (hence more wins are better).

And now ask yourself: What would you do? Trying to get as much as possible wins or show as much as possible good fights (and likly lose these fights)?!

Enterainment is only nice for the spectators not for the fighters.

[Gurowake 4,150]

After seeing Ichinojo's matta, it seemed pretty clear to me that he was going to henka, because that's exactly the same thing that he did against Kisenosato. The false start didn't have any possible reason other than to make the opponent think he was too eager to get out of the blocks; he did it well before anyone could ever have been expected to think that his opponent was ready, which needed to be the case because otherwise the opposing rikishi might actually decide to start upon seeing you start. Kakuryu should really be ashamed for falling for the same trick that had already been used once in the the tournament by the same rikishi, especially since he's prone to use the technique himself on various occasions. This one seemed far too telegraphed for me given what he did against Kisenosato, and I assumed Kakuryu would have been ready for it.

As for Ichinojo's Day 15 opponent, Kotoshogiku does make sense now that Kisenosato is KK and their match would be utterly meaningless, much like how they're clearly skipping Hakuho's bout with Giku. I don't *actually* expect to see Tochinoshin get paired against him for the obvious reason, but I just have this feeling that they might be interested in pairing Ichinojo against someone who's beaten him multiple times in the past, and with the Day 14 pairings bringing Tochinoshin up to face a top-performing maegashira they might just do again.

[Morty 1,518]

After seeing Ichinojo's matta, it seemed pretty clear to me that he was going to henka, because that's exactly the same thing that he did against Kisenosato. The false start didn't have any possible reason other than to make the opponent think he was too eager to get out of the blocks; he did it well before anyone could ever have been expected to think that his opponent was ready, which needed to be the case because otherwise the opposing rikishi might actually decide to start upon seeing you start. Kakuryu should really be ashamed for falling for the same trick that had already been used once in the the tournament by the same rikishi, especially since he's prone to use the technique himself on various occasions. This one seemed far too telegraphed for me given what he did against Kisenosato, and I assumed Kakuryu would have been ready for it.

As I watched Ichinojo go early I thought to myself "he's going to henka like he did with Kise" and he did. If I can work it out Kak should have seen it coming a mile away

[Doitsuyama 1,259]

I feel breaking up Kotoshogiku-Kisenosato would be a bad idea, just *because* it would be a meaningless bout for both KK ozeki. Ozeki just do worse than usual against Sekiwake and below when they have kachi-koshi secured and four or more losses. Kotoshogiku (6-6) is better than Kotooshu, the master of tanking these bouts (9-24), but 50% is about the norm. Sekiwake at 6 or 7 wins do much better, just because they are motivated.

[Oshirokita 198]

Wow, what a day!

Is it just me, or did Goeido look reminiscent of Tochiazuma in his match?

[Chiyozakura 163]

Not trying to re-open the whole henka as a legitimate tactic debate, but Ichinojo's win over Kakuryu felt really, really cheap. Probably the most anticipated bout of the day and he opts for the henka?

Exciting day of sumo, but that ending left a foul taste in my mouth.

But it is still a sport. And the sportsmen earn a salary. And this salary is coupled to their performance (hence more wins are better).

And now ask yourself: What would you do? Trying to get as much as possible wins or show as much as possible good fights (and likly lose these fights)?!

Enterainment is only nice for the spectators not for the fighters.

Which in Sumo is not necessarily right. Just ask guys like Takanonami or Tochiazuma who did not get a sansho with the added money after scoring 12-3 at Sekiwake just because their sumo was not good enough. Or ask Miyabiyama who earned 34 wins in Sanyaku but was not promoted to Ozeki. How you win sometimes matters as well.

Still in Ichnojo's special case I think it will not matter much with him being shinnyumaku. He will probably still get the kanto-sho and shukun-sho, no matter what happens now. As already mentioned the gino-sho might be in question.

[CT3* 331]

Not trying to re-open the whole henka as a legitimate tactic debate, but Ichinojo's win over Kakuryu felt really, really cheap. Probably the most anticipated bout of the day and he opts for the henka?

Exciting day of sumo, but that ending left a foul taste in my mouth.

But it is still a sport. And the sportsmen earn a salary. And this salary is coupled to their performance (hence more wins are better).

And now ask yourself: What would you do? Trying to get as much as possible wins or show as much as possible good fights (and likly lose these fights)?!

Enterainment is only nice for the spectators not for the fighters.

What would I do? I'd recall that prior to my first Makuuchi basho, both Kakuryu and Hakuho visited me for keiko. And being thankful for their help in preparing me for my entrance into the big time, I'd like to think I'd show a little more respect and engage in a straight up bout.

[Asashosakari 20,225]

No theories posted yet that Ichinojo must've been genetically engineering by the Kyokai to stop Hakuho from breaking Taiho's record? Colour me disappointed.

[dingo 1,477]

Not trying to re-open the whole henka as a legitimate tactic debate, but Ichinojo's win over Kakuryu felt really, really cheap. Probably the most anticipated bout of the day and he opts for the henka?

Exciting day of sumo, but that ending left a foul taste in my mouth.

But it is still a sport. And the sportsmen earn a salary. And this salary is coupled to their performance (hence more wins are better).

And now ask yourself: What would you do? Trying to get as much as possible wins or show as much as possible good fights (and likly lose these fights)?!

Enterainment is only nice for the spectators not for the fighters.

By that logic every rikishi would think like that, since they're just sportsmen earning a salary and needing to perform better. And thus we'd be seeing nothing than an endless henka-thon all the way from maezumo to makuuchi. Yet strangely it doesn't happen...

[Senkoho 552]

we'd be seeing nothing than an endless henka-thon all the way from maezumo to makuuchi.

Until they'd finally realize you can't just blindly leap forward every time hoping that your opponent is going to be there.

As much as I'm not a huge fan of henka, I have nothing against it in certain situations. A hiramaku rikishi fighting a yokozuna is one of them. I'd expect a yokozuna to be at least a little bit smarter than a proverbial Buyuzan.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Senkoho

[Washuyama 662]

No theories posted yet that Ichinojo must've been genetically engineering by the Kyokai to stop Hakuho from breaking Taiho's record? Colour me disappointed.

Dammit... I was going to start that argument tomorrow after he beat Hakuho. ;-)

[rzombie1988 159]

I'm 50/50 on the henka on a Yokozuna thing. Cheap way to win and you shouldn't do it, but I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't consider it. That took balls to do and he got lucky he got it. He would have looked like total dumbass had it not worked. Can you imagine blowing your 11-1 2nd place spot on a failed henka? Total embarassment and he'd get ripped hard for it.

Too bad Okinoumi lost. I'm not a fan of his or anything, but I love chaos and there was a small chance we'd have 3 people at 13-2 if everything worked out that way.

Stoked for day 14 and 15. Too bad Harumafuji isn't in this as that would have made things even more exciting.

Edited September 26, 2014 by rzombie1988