Natsu basho 2019 discussions [SPOILERS]

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

I have a feeling kakuryu picked up an injury recently too, just a hunch.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

An explanation for Tochinoshin's henka today?Tochinoshin injured his knee during his first loss on day 8. He was on painkillers and a suppository in his bout against Mitakeumi on day 10 and went on to win (losing his next three..), but during the evening the knee swelled considerably, so much so as water was extracted from it. "I didn't want to do that as it weakens me, but the pain was strong," he explained. He couldn't go head on at the tachiai. Yesterday, he thought he had won, but he didn't. Today he faced an opponent against whom he is 3-23. His mind and body were not at their best, so he did what he believed he had to do and got his 10th win, something he did not achieve in his 5 bashos as Ozeki. "I am thankful for everyone's support. On the dohyo I'm alone, but I have many people behind me-tsukebito, oyakata, koenkai, my countrymen. I've got to win. Last time around, I didn't do that enough.." he said. He plans to visit Georgia in mid-June, while healing and starting anew back at Ozeki.

That's a bit worrying for the rest of his career as an ozeki, knee injury is what made him lose the rank in the first place, hopefully he'll be able to heal well this time and manage to compete with a knee in good shape next basho.

[Rocks 1,805]

6 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

and a suppository

Sometimes there can be too much information. 

[Kintamayama 44,275]

4 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I have a feeling kakuryu picked up an injury recently too, just a hunch.

100%.

[Kintamayama 44,275]

1 minute ago, Rocks said:

Sometimes there can be too much information. 

I suppos so.

[ScreechingOwl 343]

There have been many comments on the judging, but most of them have missed the obvious points.

1. The judges are biased. I'm not saying they are trying to make bad calls or there is any conspiracy going on. I'm merely pointing out that they are in the position of judging rikishi from their own heya. This is an active bias. There is no other sport I know of where, at the professional level, the judges are also managers/coaches/owners of the players they are judging.

2. The judges aren't professional judges. They are professional heya owners and former wrestlers. They have not dedicated years of their life to the art and/or science of judging. This is just another duty for them. Does anyone honestly think that being a coach and former player is the best qualification to be a judge?

3. Most of the mistakes the judges made aren't on video replays, but are because they don't call for a mono-ii after a very close match. It's hard to know why this occurs. I'm guessing poor positioning, poor eyesight, and poor judgment each play a role.

4. It is NOT a problem to not have the judges review the video tape. This is what happens in baseball: if a close play is challenged the umpire's call is reviewed by people looking at video replays in an office in New York. They look at the replays. They can only overrule the umpire's call if the video review is conclusive that the call was wrong. In many cases it is not conclusive: the play is too close or the angles available are not conclusive. In this case the original call stands. The same rule should be in effect in sumo. 

In any case, the sumo judging system is antiquated, and this won't be the last time five ill-trained, unprofessional, and biased judges make a mistake. Let's just hope it's the last one that determines a yusho.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

1 minute ago, Rocks said:

Sometimes there can be too much information. 

It’s all part of the day 13 conspiracy. He got taken down by a shot and a book suppository.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

Watching the replay of the bout for the third time, I wonder what Mukade-beya's take on Goeido-Asanoyama is...

[Rainoyama 1,157]

First yusho winner of the Reiwa era Asanoyama on receiving the presidential cup from Trump tomorow "I heard the trophy is big so I guess better prepare my arms (laugh) I'll do some research on Mr. Trump on wikipedia". The presidential cup is 137cm high and weights somewhere between 27 and 31 kg. The prime minister cup that will be handed by Abe Shinzo weights 40 kg

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201905250001358.html

Edited May 25, 2019 by Rainoyama

[Naganoyama 5,818]

37 minutes ago, Rocks said:

In golf the winner can and does occasionally finish before the others do, sometimes hours before.

In the Iditarod the winner usually finishes days before the runner that comes last.

[ScreechingOwl 343]

32 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

An explanation for Tochinoshin's henka today? Tochinoshin injured his right knee during his first loss on day 8. He was on painkillers and a suppository in his bout against Mitakeumi on day 10 and went on to win (losing his next three..), but during the evening the knee swelled considerably, so much so as water was extracted from it. "I didn't want to do that as it weakens me, but the pain was strong," he explained. He couldn't go head on at the tachiai. Yesterday, he thought he had won, but he didn't. Today he faced an opponent against whom he is 3-23. His mind and body were not at their best, so he did what he believed he had to do and got his 10th win, something he did not achieve in his 5 bashos as Ozeki. "I am thankful for everyone's support. On the dohyo I'm alone, but I have many people behind me-tsukebito, oyakata, koenkai, my countrymen. I've got to win. Last time around, I didn't do that enough.." he said. He plans to visit Georgia in mid-June, while healing and starting anew back at Ozeki.

Kintamayama's discussion is illuminating. It must have been very tempting for Tochinoshin to have employed a henka in his senshuraku bout last basho against Takakeisho, when he was injured and his ozeki status was on the line, yet he refrained from doing so. 

 

Prior to injuring his knee in Nagoya in 2013, Tochinoshin often used a henka. Since his return he has seldom done so. He truly is a changed wrestler and well deserving of the repromotion he clinched yesterday.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

1 minute ago, ScreechingOwl said:

Prior to injuring his knee in Nagoya in 2013, Tochinoshin often used a henka. Since his return he has seldom done so. He truly is a changed wrestler and well deserving of the repromotion he clinched yesterday.

And today it was a HNH at most.

[ALAKTORN 346]

I am disgusted at Tochinoshin.

[RabidJohn 1,644]

5 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

I am disgusted at Tochinoshin.

The minority report...

Edit: Tochinoshin even made it into the day 14 spirited rikishi list!

 

Edited May 25, 2019 by RabidJohn

[Tsubame 355]

3 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

So... now that the Natsu yusho winner had been decided, I am curious to see what other forum members think about which tournament was more interesting. This tournament or the last tournament and your reason(s) for your decision. 

This tournament without a doubt!

Why?

Because the Natsu had a shin ozeki, a sekiwake trying to get his ozeki rank back, some alot new guys finally in makuuchi and a quite nice basho race. Without Hakuho competing you have a lot of possible winner names on your list.

The last basho had only two interesting questions: will Hakuho get a zensho (yes) and will Takakeisho get his promotion (yes). But beyond that? Only Ichinijos 14 victories were quite remarkable, but since he could not tie up to this performance, you will remember this as a fluke (somehow).

[Rainoyama 1,157]

from twitter : Yusho winner Asanoyama took commemorative photos holding a sea bream alongside his oyakata wearing a kimono and a haori (Japanese formal coat). It sounds like an ordinary thing but it's not. Because there was a chance that Asanoyama would win today and that such picture could be taken someone in charge at the heya apparently brought the clothes to Asanoyama's tsukebito. Thanks to that, Asanoyama changed at the kokugikan and went back to his heya already wearing kimono and Haori and could look elegant in the pictures with his oyakata and supporters. A heya that never experienced winning a yusho is usually not this prepared but this Takasago beya, a heya that won many yusho before and is therefore is perfectly ready. 

Edited May 25, 2019 by Rainoyama

[lackmaker 428]

32 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

I am disgusted at Tochinoshin.

Well that should keep him on his toes.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

6 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

Well that should keep him on his toes.

Heel be upset when he finds out.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

19 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

A heya that never experienced winning a yusho is usually not this prepared but this Takasugano beya, a heya that won many yusho before and is therefore is perfectly ready. 

Lost in translation or genuine error in the original source?

[Benihana 1,900]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

In golf the winner can and does occasionally finish before the others do, sometimes hours before.

And when Trump plays without public, he always wins, even if his partners legitimately had won after 9 holes 

And now for something completely different:

@Kishinoyama This basho, because of a forseeable Tochinoshin-drama (luckily with happy end), Hakuho out, Takakeisho to prove his Ozeki-worthiness. And with Asanoyama taking the yusho it even got better than expected, despite Takakeisho going insta-kadoban. Mitakeumi secures sanyaku, Aminishki secures his sekitori status, lots of upsets on the dohyo, a gyoji scandal and we haven't even seen day 15!

Edited May 25, 2019 by Benihana

[neonbelly 226]

I'm a little sour about the para-henka because I have a crush on Kakuryu, but I'm still happy for Tochinoshin.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

16 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Lost in translation or genuine error in the original source?

Lost in translation aha the source is correct  高砂部屋  it's me who can't read aha ! fixed it thank you so much !

Edited May 25, 2019 by Rainoyama

[Benihana 1,900]

8 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Lost in translation or genuine error in the original source?

I was curious myself, so i checked.

Google Translate got it correct, but the rest is...well...

Google Translate japanese -> german -> my own translation to english (2nd part only):

Asano Yamaseki, who in the Kokugikan became a haori-figurine, returned to the Takasago-room and could with his masters and his followers take a waiting picture . If this is a room without win-experience, he might not be walking so well. Preparation only, because the room in the makuuchi-championship many times experienced. Takasago-room, i ask myself.

There are devices for spoken words coming surprisingly close to the Star Trek universal translator. Why doen´sn't this work for simple text?

[neonbelly 226]

4 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

So... now that the Natsu yusho winner had been decided, I am curious to see what other forum members think about which tournament was more interesting. This tournament or the last tournament and your reason(s) for your decision. 

This one was more exciting with all the aforementioned drama, but I enjoyed the last one more.

I first watched sumo in May 2016, and it was Hakuho's skill and cunning in that zensho yusho that made me a devotee.

So there's something about seeing Hakuho light it up as spring is in the air that really boosts my spirits.

[Jakusotsu 5,757]

1 minute ago, neonbelly said:

So there's something about seeing Hakuho light it up as spring is in the air that really boosts my spirits.

Or to put it another way: it's either Hakuho or a free-for-all these days.