Natsu basho 2019 discussions [SPOILERS]

[Maguroyama 27]

Could probably find this out by some search, but too lazy... when was the last time a rikishi whose career top rank is maegashira 5 or lower won the makunouchi yusho?

[Kintamayama 44,229]

21 minutes ago, Maguroyama said:

Could probably find this out by some search, but too lazy... when was the last time a rikishi whose career top rank is maegashira 5 or lower won the makunouchi yusho?

58 years since a rikishi without sanyaku experience won it. Closest answer..

[RabidJohn 1,631]

Don't know about M5, but it's the first time for 58 years that a hiramaku with no sanyaku experience took the yusho - and I didn't have to go very far to find that out!

Edit: And Moti beat me to it by one minute!

Edited May 26, 2019 by RabidJohn

[Kintamayama 44,229]

1 minute ago, Akumazeki said:

Kyokutenho, M7, Natsu 2012, win by playoff over Tochiozan

His career top rank was Sekiwake when he won the yusho, so no... 

[Akumazeki 28]

4 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

His career top rank was Sekiwake when he won the yusho, so no... 

Agreed, did not look at the words -career top - in the question. Answer deleted :)

Edited May 26, 2019 by Akumazeki

[Kintamayama 44,229]

On 24/05/2019 at 06:28, robnplunder said:

Ain't no way that Asanoyama is going to get the yusho now.  But things tend to happen exactly opposite of what I say in this forum.  So, there.

Bump.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

3 hours ago, Akumazeki said:

Mitakeumi is fantastic.

Agreed.  And the best part of this tournament for him was not only defeating the championship winner, but also doing so in front of Prime Minister Abe and the US President.

There is a growing number of Top Division wrestlers with one yusho to their name (not to mention the likes of Hakuho and Kakuryu).  Here's another query worth checking: the first tournament of the Reiwa era featured nine Top Division wrestlers with at least one championship win.  (Hakuho, Kakuryu, Goeido, Takakeisho, Tochinoshin, Mitakeumi, Tamawashi, Kotoshogiku, and Asanoyama.)

Has there ever been a banzuke with more?

Edited May 26, 2019 by Amamaniac

[Dwale 419]

Gotta admire Enho even though he lost. What fire! I feel certain he would have gotten his kachi-koshi were it not for that unfortunate injury. 

That was a wild basho, lots of ups and downs. Already can't wait for the next one. Well, it was fun, guys. Peace.

[Fukurou 534]

Was Kotoeko injured on/around day 10? He got his KK (8-2), and followed up by losing his last 5 matches.

[Morty 1,478]

25 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

Was Kotoeko injured on/around day 10? He got his KK (8-2), and followed up by losing his last 5 matches.

The quality of opponents went up towards the end. Shodai and Tamawashi are better than Wakatakakage and Ishiura. Combine that with the fact he already had his KK and was probably tired, it's understandable. Great basho for him though, one of my new faves.

[Gospodin 185]

13 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

I agree. Everybody in this forum seems to love the underdogs, but personally I just see bad sumō.

Before Asashoryu started to almost entirely dominate makuuchi, there was a transitioning period with aging Yokozuna. As I have not followed sumo back then (started pretty exactly with Asa´s reign), could members who watched earlier comment on the period of Takanohana, Wakanohana, Akebono and Musahimaru retiring/fading, regarding the state of sumo then ?

Edited May 26, 2019 by Gospodin

[lackmaker 428]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Agreed.  And the best part of this tournament for him was not only defeating the championship winner, but also doing so in front of Prime Minister Abe and the US President.

There is a growing number of Top Division wrestlers with one yusho to their name (not to mention the likes of Hakuho and Kakuryu).  Here's another query worth checking: the first tournament of the Reiwa era featured nine Top Division wrestlers with at least one championship win.  (Hakuho, Kakuryu, Goeido, Takakeisho, Tochinoshin, Mitakeumi, Tamawashi, Kotoshogiku, and Asanoyama.)

Has there ever been a banzuke with more?

It would seem to me more reasonable to count the number when the banzuke is announced so Asanoyama wouldn't feature until the next basho.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

4 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Agreed.  And the best part of this tournament for him was not only defeating the championship winner, but also doing so in front of Prime Minister Abe and the US President.

There is a growing number of Top Division wrestlers with one yusho to their name (not to mention the likes of Hakuho and Kakuryu).  Here's another query worth checking: the first tournament of the Reiwa era featured nine Top Division wrestlers with at least one championship win.  (Hakuho, Kakuryu, Goeido, Takakeisho, Tochinoshin, Mitakeumi, Tamawashi, Kotoshogiku, and Asanoyama.)

Has there ever been a banzuke with more?

As mentioned above, it’s actually eight. July’s banzuke should have nine on it, barring any unexpected intai between now and then.

Other than that, by my reckoning the July 2000 banzuke had ten yusho winners in makuuchi: Akebono, Takanohana, Musashimaru, Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Kaio (who won his first yusho in May), Musoyama, Tochiazuma, Takanonami and Takatoriki. I don’t know if this is the highest as it was picked at random from an era I knew had a lot of different winners. There were five different ones that year alone.

Correction: Tochiazuma hadn’t yet won his first yusho. That came in January 2002. Mea culpa.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Gurowake 3,875]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

As mentioned above, it’s actually eight. July’s banzuke should have nine on it, barring any unexpected intai between now and then.

Other than that, by my reckoning the July 2000 banzuke had ten yusho winners on it: Akebono, Takanohana, Musashimaru, Chiyotaikai, Dejima, Kaio (who won his first yusho in May), Musoyama, Tochiazuma, Takanonami and Takatoriki. I don’t know if this is the highest as it was picked at random from an era I knew had a lot of different winners. There were five different ones that year alone.

Unless you just meant Makuuchi, you missed Mitoizumi in your list of winners on the July 2000 banzuke.  He was just about to retire, but he was still on the banzuke.  I know the comment you responded to explicitly said top division, but you didn't.  But I guess as compared to now, you can just add Terunofuji to the list of Yusho winners on the full banzuke so it's not like it's that much different.

As to the highest number, I consulted The Graph by YBF, though my latest revision is Kyushu 2017.  I'm not sure where the thread is for it.  The Graph clearly indicates 11 in July 2000 and is the highest number I can find.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Gurowake

[Eikokurai 3,433]

7 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Unless you just meant Makuuchi, you missed Mitoizumi in your list of winners on the July 2000 banzuke.  He was just about to retire, but he was still on the banzuke.  I know the comment you responded to explicitly said top division, but you didn't.  But I guess as compared to now, you can just add Terunofuji to the list of Yusho winners on the full banzuke so it's not like it's that much different.

As to the highest number, I consulted The Graph by YBF, though my latest revision is Kyushu 2017.  I'm not sure where the thread is for it.  The Graph clearly indicates 11 in July 2000 and is the highest number I can find.

Yes, I only meant makuuchi as per Amamaniac’s post. I thought that would be clear enough, but can edit my post if its ambiguous.

[Gurowake 3,875]

6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Yes, I only meant makuuchi as per Amamaniac’s post. I thought that would be clear enough, but can edit my post if its ambiguous.

Yes, I knew what you meant, but partly my emphasis on including Mitoizumi was that the reference that I had that listed how many former Yusho winners were on the banzuke looked at the entire banzuke.  There may have been other times that there were 10 yusho winners in Makuuchi, since I can't tell from The Graph how many of its reported Yusho winners were in Makuuchi.  Clearly 10 is the record counting only Makuuchi since there were only 2 tournaments with 11 on the whole banzuke, which was when Mitoizumi was in Juryo.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Gurowake

[Eikokurai 3,433]

3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Yes, I knew what you meant, but partly my emphasis on including Mitoizumi was that the reference that I had that listed how many former Yusho winners were on the banzuke looked at the entire banzuke.  There may have been other times that there were 10 yusho winners in Makuuchi, since I can't tell from The Graph how many of its reported Yusho winners were in Makuuchi.  Clearly 10 is the record since there were only 2 tournaments with 11 on the whole banzuke, which was when Mitoizumi was in Juryo.

Kotonoshiki should have been on the July 2000 banzuke too, in Juryo. He won two makuuchi yusho (both as maegashira as a point of interest).

Edited May 26, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Gurowake 3,875]

By the way, the lowest number of Yusho winners on the entire banzuke was right after Kaio retired.  There was just Hakuho, Harumafuji, and Kotooshu.  That lasted until Baruto won his yusho a few basho later.

[Gurowake 3,875]

3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Kotonoshiki should have been on the July 2000 banzuke too, in Juryo. He won two makuuchi yusho.

Ok, looking back over the list, Tochiazuma was not a former yusho winner at that time.  His first was in 2001.  So maybe 9 is the record. I'm not going to look into it more, since it's not easy to do except by inspection.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Gurowake

[Eikokurai 3,433]

2 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Ok, looking back over the list, Tochiazuma was not a former yusho winner at that time.  His first was in 2001.

2002 actually. Damn. I checked all the others as well, but took his for granted.

[Gurowake 3,875]

2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

2002 actually. Damn. I checked all the others as well, but took his for granted.

That's what I get for only having The Graph as my reference and assuming that where it says "2002" is where the start of 2002 is, not the middle of 2002.  If I had scrolled down further I could have seen that it's clearly labeled January elsewhere.  But it's a big graph and you can't see everything at once.

Edited May 26, 2019 by Gurowake

[Amamaniac 2,078]

I am sad to report that Ishiura will probably definitely drop back down into the Juryo Division for the July Nagoya Tournament.  And we all know what that means: no Miyagino-beya Yokozuna Hakuho dohyoiri "dream team" – at least for the immediate future... 

P.S., That is of course assuming that the GOAT will be back in action next tournament...

Edited May 26, 2019 by Amamaniac

[robnplunder 974]

3 hours ago, Morty said:

The quality of opponents went up towards the end. Shodai and Tamawashi are better than Wakatakakage and Ishiura. Combine that with the fact he already had his KK and was probably tired, it's understandable. Great basho for him though, one of my new faves.

Kotoeko is winning me over as well.   He's one of the little guys with oversize heart.  It seems this is an era of little dudes with the likes of Enho, Ishiura, Terutsuyoshi, and Kotoeko.   Collectively, they will never get an yusho but seeing all 4 of them in makuuchi at the same time is fun. Did I just say "never?"  One is sure to get that yusho now, as soon as the next basho (juryo?).  

[robnplunder 974]

Overlooked by Asanoyama's unexpected yusho is how Taka twins remarkable sudden improvement over their last basho where they were 14-16 collectively in juryo.   They were 20-2 in this basho taking two yusho trophies home.  Drug test, please.  

[Akōgyokuseki 227]

Please direct all queries, reactions and comments (including is it Abi or not) to @Amamaniac for this one. Thank you