Basho Talk Hatsu 2018 (SPOILERS)

[NickHenry 1]

Am I the only one noticing how different Tochinoshins body looks? He has grown two extra necks in the last 3 months. He has to be using steroids. I'm not against it, but it seems painfully obvious.

[PawnSums 59]

11 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Hard to see a promotion with 12-3 J and 13-2 Y when Takayasu's other ozeki tournaments were 1-2-12, 8-5-2, and 9-6. 

Compare that to Kise's last 6 before promotion: 14-1 Y, 12-3 J, 10-5, 12-3 J, 13-2 J, 13-2 J.

He had consistently strong ozeki showings to support his case with one yusho, and I believe the YDC mentioned this. Conversely, Takayasu has just achieved his first double digit ozeki tournament..

What about akebono's 0-0-15 and 9-6? then again he did get 2 yusho in a row, on the other hand they may want another decent japanese yokozuna.

[Katooshu 3,485]

Yes, Akebono got two consecutive yusho. Takayasu didn't in the 12-3 J + 13-2 Y scenario presented, nor would he have a 14-1 Y +14-1 D, nor would he have the consistently strong performance history that Kise did leading up to his one yusho promotion.

22 minutes ago, NickHenry said:

Am I the only one noticing how different Tochinoshins body looks? He has grown two extra necks in the last 3 months. He has to be using steroids. I'm not against it, but it seems painfully obvious.

No, it's been mentioned a few times. I notice it too.

Edited January 26, 2018 by Katooshu

[Jakusotsu 6,405]

22 minutes ago, NickHenry said:

Am I the only one noticing how different Tochinoshins body looks? He has grown two extra necks in the last 3 months. He has to be using steroids. I'm not against it, but it seems painfully obvious.

It's fairly obvious he's been pilfering Takarafuji's chanko for years now.

[RabidJohn 2,075]

2 hours ago, NickHenry said:

Am I the only one noticing how different Tochinoshins body looks? He has grown two extra necks in the last 3 months. He has to be using steroids. I'm not against it, but it seems painfully obvious.

The thing I've noticed is his exceptional pinkness, like he just got out of a very hot bath. Is that a pointer?

[Asashosakari 20,310]

 

7 hours ago, McBugger said:

7 hours ago, serge_gva said:

I think 14-1 at M3, and then 10-5 and 9-6 (or 9-6 and 10-5) will not be enough, despite the 33 wins. Even 14-1 (M3) - 10-5 - 10-5 will not be enough IMO. From 35 wins, maybe his 14-1 Y in M3 can enter into consideration.

What? Doesn't work that way. You have to face a full san'yaku schedule in all 3 basho, I believe is the rule. Effectively, if you're in the top 16 of the banzuke you're guaranteed to be OK, which Tochinoshin is. 

14-10-9 won't go because he has to have 10+ in his last basho before promotion. 14-10-10 definitely goes. If it doesn't I'll eat my shoes. 14-9-10 also should go, I'm almost dead sure. 35 wins? Where does that come from? 

I don't see anything wrong with what serge wrote there. There's a clear bias against results achieved outside sanyaku (even when in the top 16 spots), which can be overcome by additional excellent results, but not by merely good ones. If Tochinoshin wins the yusho here and then goes 13-2 or something again in March, I wouldn't be surprised if they'll promote him on the overwhelming strength of those two results alone, just like they did Terunofuji. 14-10-10, on the other hand, from an M3 start? Nah. Not strong enough when things are on the line, i.e. at the end of the "run". Especially because Tochinoshin is hardly somebody the Kyokai has been clamouring for as an ozeki.

[Burajirotono 99]

If Tochi clinches the yusho will be a great lesson and example to injured rikishi's: Health first, ranking second.

Come on pink bear; dont let us down!

[Atenzan 1,084]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

 

I don't see anything wrong with what serge wrote there. There's a clear bias against results achieved outside sanyaku (even when in the top 16 spots), which can be overcome by additional excellent results, but not by merely good ones. If Tochinoshin wins the yusho here and then goes 13-2 or something again in March, I wouldn't be surprised if they'll promote him on the overwhelming strength of those two results alone, just like they did Terunofuji. 14-10-10, on the other hand, from an M3 start? Nah. Not strong enough when things are on the line, i.e. at the end of the "run". Especially because Tochinoshin is hardly somebody the Kyokai has been clamouring for as an ozeki.

I might be eating some shoes then. You make good points. I suppose a lot depends on how the last basho plays out though - perhaps 14-8-11 is stronger than 14-10-10 especially if Tochinoshin keeps himself in the yusho race. 

So was Terunofuji's run based on two basho rather than three? I never knew. Right before my time. 

[Yukiarashi 195]

9 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Interesting that you choose 25 years as a cut-off because there were a whole bunch in the early 90s - Kotofuji and Kotonishiki in '91, Takahanada and Mitoizumi in '92.

I never knew Mitoizumi won a yusho. The salt guy?

If Tochinoshin loses this now it will be the choke of the century, two win lead with two days left and only hiramaku opponents left. That being said I was shocked how easily he beat Ichinojo in Godzilla mode. I was thinking of a probable slip up there. 12-1 from M3 is incredible, even more is the explosion this basho from being a good hiramaku all these years. Watch out for Shohozan though.

Something has got to be wrong with Kakuryu. I had a feeling Mitakeumi might beat him, despite a five bout losing streak. The ease in which it was done was shocking. Nice to hear Mitakeumi wants to help Tochinoshin yusho, I think everyone does besides the two pursuers.

Takayasu's "bowling ball" tachiai is incredible. He's been doing it for awhile now, glad it's getting recognition. Then he threw Arawashi atop his opponent tomorrow (I think that was Kakuryu). Good strategy.

Endo-Kotoshogiku might have been the best bout of the day. How Endo survived that arm throw on one knee was amazing! I hope Endo can have a sudden Ichinojo/Tochinoshin like resurgence. Of course he never really surged to begin with....

Takarafuji-Ryuden might have tied it for best bout. Ryuden is 9-4 in his debut! Then in his first bout in the middle part of Makuuchi he beats a joi veteran in Takarafuji in a long mawashi bout! Wow! He looks spectacular!

Aminishiki-Ikioi was sad to watch. Having to watch it four more times on replay was even sadder. The fact it was a decision over a second or third victory on Day 13 was saddest.

What's happened to Chiyoshoma? Chiyomaru KK from M9!

ABI!!! 9-4 Also in his debut! The "tadpoles" are having a down basho, so now it's time for the slightly older young frogs, and wise toad Tochinoshin.

I saw this mentioned in the random bouts topic but despite his weak state, Takekaze over Terunofuji by Yorikiri is still stunning. Credit to Takekaze who I was writing off as intai but has since had four straight wins. Terunofuji meanwhile? What happened? His knee has had a bit more time to recover but is it his diabetes contributing to his weak appearance that much? Just five basho ago, people knew they were going to be beat in a mawashi match, now the lowest ranked rikishi in the division, and sidestepper Takekaze purposely engaged with him and charged him out in seconds. This doesn't look good for him right now.

Kyokutaisei finally! KK and Makuuchi debut! Yay!!!

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Yukiarashi
watched bout again

[Asashosakari 20,310]

1 hour ago, McBugger said:

So was Terunofuji's run based on two basho rather than three? I never knew. Right before my time. 

It was only insinuated, not outright stated, but it was pretty obviously the case, IMHO: There was absolutely no talk of an ozeki run after 8+13 by those in charge, which indicates that the 8 wins were considered useless. Because of that I don't think it makes any sense to think of his ozeki run as 8+13+12, even if that totals the customary 33. All the value in his run was in the last two tournaments. (And that value was close to what's expected of an ozeki challenging for yokozuna honours...it would have been very hard to defend the idea that it's not good enough when a sekiwake is challenging for an ozeki promotion.)

Tochinoshin's starting point is worse than Terunofuji's was, but if he goes 14+13 it would be hard to deny him. In any case, with some earlier hiramaku yusho such as those by Kotonishiki, they outright set a promotion goal of "get a second yusho" afterwards. (Even though he wasn't even sekiwake both times.)

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,291]

Man, this is a good basho.

[Joaoiyama 318]

If Tochinoshin wins on day 14 he clinches the yusho right?

[WAKATAKE 2,760]

3 minutes ago, Joaoiyama said:

If Tochinoshin wins on day 14 he clinches the yusho right?

Yes

[Morty 1,519]

9 hours ago, Kotogouryuu said:

I keep saying this but when healthy, Endo's legwork is top class. He managed to maintain balance with one leg with Koto was twisting him around, and once he got his other foot down he was immediately steady. Not exactly a shining basho for him, but we might see it yet.

My thinking while I was watching that bout was "that's why good shiko is important". His footwork and balance has always been his greatest strength which is why the knee injury damaged his sumo so much. I have always thought that he was better than his results suggest. Now he appears mostly healthy let's see if he can prove it.

[Bumpkin 438]

2 hours ago, Yukiarashi said:

If Tochinoshin loses this now it will be the choke of the century, two win lead with two days left and only hiramaku opponents left.

 

The choke of the century occurred last September.

[Yukiarashi 195]

Just now, Bumpkin said:

The choke of the century occurred last September.

Yeah but that was Goeido....

[Amamaniac 2,092]

The new NHK list of opponents for Tochinoshin on the senshuraku day 15 are:

1) Endo, 2) Chiyotairyu, and 3) Kaisei.  

The only name that didn't change was Chiyotairyu.  Rank-wise, Chiyotairyu is a close fit for Tochinoshin, but his record thus far is an unremarkable 6:7.  Endo and Kaisei both have their KKs so perhaps whichever of the two wins today (day 14) will be paired against Tochinoshin #pink bear

Edited January 27, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Amamaniac 2,092]

The odds are that Tochinoshin has the yusho in the bag.  Now, the big question is: who will carry the yushoki championship flag in the celebratory parade?

If Aran were still around, I would imagine Tochinoshin would give him the nod.  Or, Tochi might go the compatriot route, and choose Gagamaru.  There is probably priority given to someone from the champion's own stable, so maybe Aoiyama.  Not sure if he is eligible since he went kyujo this tournament. (corrected by Bumpkin)  Any opinions out there?

Edited January 27, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Bumpkin 438]

Tochiozan went kyujo, not Aoiyama. As for who will carry the flag, it will almost certainly be Aoiyama.

[Amamaniac 2,092]

You are absolutely right.  Aoiyama is absent from the Top Division, but is currently 8-5 in Juryo.  So probably the best bet.

But out of curiosity, has there ever been a wrestler who was kyujo invited to carry a championship flag?  Somehow, I doubt that that information is in the database...

Edited January 27, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Bumpkin 438]

I remember when Hakuho won the yusho and invited Kyukotenho to carry the flag. Hakuho then announced Kyukotenho's retirement. Only problem? Kyukotenho hadn't yet decided to retire. Oh well. 

[Yukiarashi 195]

I would like for it to be Gagamaru who carries the flag but it would probably be Aoiyama.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,291]

Oh man I remembered now, if he wins the yusho it's going to really delay seeing his newborn...

[Munjeezy 60]

Day 14 Makuuchi bouts are about to start, nhk is of course showing match highlights from Tochinoshin as well as a few matches between Shohozan and himself, does he secure the yusho today or on senshuraku? Thoughts?

[Asashosakari 20,310]

The Day 15 schedule is out - it's Tochinoshin-Endo.