Basho Talk - Hatsu Basho 2017 ** (SPOILERS)

[ScottyJoyJrBebe 97]

1 minute ago, Akinomaki said:

Kakuryu is the top yokozuna, the norm would be to count down his opponents

Day 15 Hakuho

Day 14 the top ozeki: Kise

 

 

Day 13...very anti-climatic....but...the day is young ;)

[Gospodin 267]

Hi folks, a question about Aoiyama-Kaisei: it looked like Kaisei had gripped one of Aoiyama´s flabs on his side instead of the mawashi - is that usal ?

[Jyuunomori 238]

Ura just beat Oyanagi with a Tottari. Each victory with a different kimarite. :P

[Dwale 419]

19 hours ago, dingo said:

Hakuho might be near 100% of his aging, injury-nagged self. But he's far from the lean mean zensho machine of earlier times. 

That is certainly true.

[Dapeng 236]

Geeku the hero of last year's January basho, may not be able to finish this year's January basho......a wave of retirement is coming.

Edited January 14, 2017 by Dapeng

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

This basho seems to me a changing of the guard. The mainstays are having a nightmare. The newcomers are going ok.

Some of the mainstays will do ok next time. Some of the newcomers will screw up.

But overall...I feel a generational thing with this tournament.

No?

[Dwale 419]

Tamawashi looked to have bad jitters that match, came in all wild and sloppy. 

Sokokurai and Chiyoo was entertaining, really enjoyed that one. 

I like Takayasu and I'm glad he's having a good basho but he's had luck on his side thus far, too. That does take some of the sweetness out of it.

 

[Dwale 419]

26 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

This basho seems to me a changing of the guard. The mainstays are having a nightmare. The newcomers are going ok.

Some of the mainstays will do ok next time. Some of the newcomers will screw up.

But overall...I feel a generational thing with this tournament.

No?

Perhaps!

[WAKATAKE 2,759]

7 minutes ago, Dwale said:

I like Takayasu and I'm glad he's having a good basho but he's had luck on his side thus far, too. That does take some of the sweetness out of it.

 

Still, one yokozuna and three ozeki is quite a feat, provided he can finish KK. Finish double digits and he can renew that ozeki run.

[pmac 34]

kise countdown, 7 down, 8 to go :D

will he? i still think hakuho will lose one or two next week...... go kise, this has to be yours!

[kumoryu 97]

43 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

This basho seems to me a changing of the guard. The mainstays are having a nightmare. The newcomers are going ok.

Some of the mainstays will do ok next time. Some of the newcomers will screw up.

But overall...I feel a generational thing with this tournament.

No?

Regarding the idea of a changing of the guard / generational shift, I looked at the age of the current Makuuchi rikishi.

I think we can think of five age-groups: rikishi born 1979-1983 (veterans); those born 1984-1986 (at or past their peak); born 1987-1989 (at or approaching peak); born 1990-1992 (prospects, peak as yet unknown); and 1993-1996 (youngsters). Normally, you would expect a smooth bell-curve distribution with the biggest number in the middle group, but in fact it looks like this:

1979-1983: 2

1984-1986: 15

1987-1989: 6

1990-1992: 16

1993-1996: 3

Basically, there's a missing generation. The rikishi in the middle group (people like Tochinoshin, Takarafuji, Tochiozan) are not stepping up. It's the next generation (Terunofuji, Takayasu, Shodai) who look like prospects.

So I would say there is a "double generation" shift happening here. 

The absence of potential in that middle group means the older guys can hold on longer and the younger guys can move ahead quicker, but the end result is that the changing of the guard, when it happens, will be twice as dramatic.

 

[Bumpkin 438]

Well done. Excellent breakdown.

[Arn 24]

 

Interesting.

How did the mass-expelling in 2011 affect this?

[lackmaker 454]

1 hour ago, pmac said:

kise countdown, 7 down, 8 to go :D

will he? i still think hakuho will lose one or two next week...... go kise, this has to be yours!

Is this the very definition of hope over experience?

[Fukurou 534]

10 hours ago, Gospodin said:

Hi folks, a question about Aoiyama-Kaisei: it looked like Kaisei had gripped one of Aoiyama´s flabs on his side instead of the mawashi - is that usal ?

I don't know so much about usual, but it is legal.

Thinking about it, it's probably not a preferred grip. The rikishi are covered in sweat and whatever - who wants that on their hands when they may be trying to hold onto the other rikishi - the better grip would be from grabbing the belt.

[Asashosakari 20,203]

1 hour ago, Arn said:

Interesting.

How did the mass-expelling in 2011 affect this?

Not by a lot, I would say. Nearly all the expelled rikishi were already pretty old at the time and would be long retired by now anyway - and a lot of the guys who were lucky to move up to fill the freshly vacated spots weren't that young either and are now gone as well (Takanoyama, Tenkaiho, etc.).

It's just one of those random things that certain age groups turn out to produce much more top rankers than others do. The 1976'ers cohort was also one of those, to the point that their superior potential was already recognized in the late 1990s while several of the best of them weren't even in pro sumo yet (i.e. still enrolled in college).

Edited January 14, 2017 by Asashosakari

[Bumpkin 438]

If there are no more withdrawals than: 

Day 13: Kakuryu vs Goeido; Hakuho vs Kisenosato.

Day 14: Hakuho vs Goeido; Kakuryu vs Kisenosato.

Day 15: Kakuryu vs Hakuho: Kisenosato vs Goeido; Terunofuji vs Kotoshogiku.

[rhyen 1,858]

could the drop in 1987-1989 be partially explained by the impression made on that generation by the 2002 world cup boom?

[Rocks 1,810]

I would write Kakuryu's shikona in ink yet.  He barely beat Okinoumi and got a bit lucky. 

[Itoyone 8]

Kisenosato seems like the guy you should have befriended in middle school. He wasn't really popular, yet not strange enough to get bullied. The one who always had that aura about him that he's some kind of special, with a calm demeanor. Always focused and right then he already knew what he wanted to do with his life and how to follow his path. Yet peer pressure and your weak social standing somehow always got in the way of you talking to him. But he didn't care about being popular or making friends, as he knew his day would come and he didn't really care about that grey noise of social standards surrounding him. Occasionally you wonder what has happened to that guy.

You meet him again at your 20th reunion, his gaze falls upon you from the other side of the room. Right this instance his glaring stare pierces your soul and you know that he completely understood your feelings towards him during the past. Giving out a little smirk, you suddenly realize that he would've liked to be your friend too. Nevertheless he didn't want to impose on you and your social peer standing. Standing there, you begin to grasp what an astonishing, interesting and magnificient human being he always has been and your only thought is "Wow, what a cool dude." 

Henceforth you become a fan and root for his first yusho.

[Asojima 2,874]

Probably the fastest entry yet on my ever expanding ignore list.

[Rocks 1,810]

Welcome @Itoyone but just so you know this isn't the Manga Plot ideas thread.

[Wakaebala 151]

4 hours ago, Pandaazuma said:

This basho seems to me a changing of the guard. The mainstays are having a nightmare. The newcomers are going ok.

Some of the mainstays will do ok next time. Some of the newcomers will screw up.

But overall...I feel a generational thing with this tournament.

No?

 

3 hours ago, kumoryu said:

Regarding the idea of a changing of the guard / generational shift, I looked at the age of the current Makuuchi rikishi.

I think we can think of five age-groups: rikishi born 1979-1983 (veterans); those born 1984-1986 (at or past their peak); born 1987-1989 (at or approaching peak); born 1990-1992 (prospects, peak as yet unknown); and 1993-1996 (youngsters). Normally, you would expect a smooth bell-curve distribution with the biggest number in the middle group, but in fact it looks like this:

1979-1983: 2

1984-1986: 15

1987-1989: 6

1990-1992: 16

1993-1996: 3

Basically, there's a missing generation. The rikishi in the middle group (people like Tochinoshin, Takarafuji, Tochiozan) are not stepping up. It's the next generation (Terunofuji, Takayasu, Shodai) who look like prospects.

So I would say there is a "double generation" shift happening here. 

The absence of potential in that middle group means the older guys can hold on longer and the younger guys can move ahead quicker, but the end result is that the changing of the guard, when it happens, will be twice as dramatic.

 

Very interesting breakdown from kumoryu, but in general, I'm gonna have to agree with Pandaazuma. 
I also have a feeling of changing winds. First of all, the old ones having more and more trouble with their bodies, going kyujo, or simply having bad records on Day 15. Second, there are many new faces, and some of them are really likeable. Of course only time will tell us if we can rely on them, quality-wise....

Also, I'm really looking forward to Ura's debut in Makuuchi. I'm not sure how high he's gonna rise, but I really think if he can stay in Makuuchi, he will force other rikishi to fight harder, and better. His way of sumo is very hard to find out, but really, very fun to watch. This year is going to be huge in Ozumo! :)

[SumpaX 23]

On 13.1.2017 at 10:33, robnplunder said:

Osu looked unimpressive in this basho, even when he won.  He's aging right in front of my eyes, fighting like a 40 year old rikishi.  

Isn't he still injured? Or has problems?

[pmac 34]

5 hours ago, lackmaker said:

Is this the very definition of hope over experience?

yes, what else is left? :))