Oskanohana 227 Posted March 25 4 hours ago, Katooshu said: True, but Isegahama/Terunofuji's foreign recruit Ochil is still there informally I believe, as he waits for Terunofuji to retire. So I doubt he'd be recognized in a merger. It actually blows my mind that this has been going for more than a year. So if Terunofuji keeps extending his career as he's arguably earned to, he's maiming at the same time his protegee's one. That's a toxic relationship if I ever saw one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Godango 956 Posted March 26 14 minutes ago, Oskanohana said: It actually blows my mind that this has been going for more than a year. So if Terunofuji keeps extending his career as he's arguably earned to, he's maiming at the same time his protegee's one. That's a toxic relationship if I ever saw one. The other side of the coin is that he's guaranteed a sought-after foreigner slot under a former yokozuna. I can see that being worth waiting for. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oskanohana 227 Posted March 26 9 minutes ago, Godango said: The other side of the coin is that he's guaranteed a sought-after foreigner slot under a former yokozuna. I can see that being worth waiting for. I count 45 active heyas, 44 with Miyagino gone. Only 28 foreigners including St. Hakuho. Are there that many zealots that won't accept a foreigner in his heya? If he's really proven to be sekitori material in training, shouldn't heyas with a vacant slot be fighting for him, even offering him a kabu? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). If I were on Terunofuji's shoes and I really liked the guy, I care for him and all that, I'd let him actually compete, maybe protect him from really problematic heyas (I'm not looking at you, Kasugano), the yokozuna will surely know the ones to avoid if so. I'd somewhat understand the predicament if Terunofuji is really about to retire (which he might be, but a year ago it was the same song, so I'm not a believer). Maybe also if Ochil's been promised a kabu, again wink-wink, and nowhere else they offer him that. But this situation looks bonkers to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Godango 956 Posted March 26 17 minutes ago, Oskanohana said: I count 45 active heyas, 44 with Miyagino gone. Only 28 foreigners including St. Hakuho. Are there that many zealots that won't accept a foreigner in his heya? If he's really proven to be sekitori material in training, shouldn't heyas with a vacant slot be fighting for him, even offering him a kabu? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). If I were on Terunofuji's shoes and I really liked the guy, I care for him and all that, I'd let him actually compete, maybe protect him from really problematic heyas (I'm not looking at you, Kasugano), the yokozuna will surely know the ones to avoid if so. I'd somewhat understand the predicament if Terunofuji is really about to retire (which he might be, but a year ago it was the same song, so I'm not a believer). Maybe also if Ochil's been promised a kabu, again wink-wink, and nowhere else they offer him that. But this situation looks bonkers to me. Gotta be honest, I was ignorant that there were that many open slots for foreigners. Colour me surprised. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 691 Posted March 26 29 minutes ago, Oskanohana said: I count 45 active heyas, 44 with Miyagino gone. Only 28 foreigners including St. Hakuho. Are there that many zealots that won't accept a foreigner in his heya? If he's really proven to be sekitori material in training, shouldn't heyas with a vacant slot be fighting for him, even offering him a kabu? (nudge, nudge, wink, wink). If I were on Terunofuji's shoes and I really liked the guy, I care for him and all that, I'd let him actually compete, maybe protect him from really problematic heyas (I'm not looking at you, Kasugano), the yokozuna will surely know the ones to avoid if so. I'd somewhat understand the predicament if Terunofuji is really about to retire (which he might be, but a year ago it was the same song, so I'm not a believer). Maybe also if Ochil's been promised a kabu, again wink-wink, and nowhere else they offer him that. But this situation looks bonkers to me. Aren't we jumping the gun with kabu promises to a guy who is not even a pro yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Oskanohana 227 Posted March 26 Just now, Bunbukuchagama said: Aren't we jumping the gun with kabu promises to a guy who is not even a pro yet? I was trying to play devil's advocate trying to come up with reasons for Ochil to stay put. No kabu offered actually further expands my view that this is madness. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 691 Posted March 26 1 minute ago, Oskanohana said: I was trying to play devil's advocate trying to come up with reasons for Ochil to stay put. No kabu offered actually further expands my view that this is madness. Well, he can still leave and start his ozumo career elsewhere... I wonder how much of it is sunk cost fallacy at this point. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gurowake 3,927 Posted March 27 There are plenty of oyakata who are not interested in foreign recruits. I don't know how many of those there are, but I suspect most if not all of the open slots are under such oyakata. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 18,835 Posted March 27 An interesting development is that so little is known about most of the heya that don't have a foreign rikishi. Back at the end of the early 2000s recruiting boom when the number of foreigners reached 60+, there were only like four stables left without one, and for all of them it was outright known that they wouldn't be trying to recruit because all the shisho in question had publicly voiced their lack of interest in doing so. These days, except for the handful of cases where some recruit is known to be in the pipeline and just not official yet, it's almost completely guesswork what's going on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 691 Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Gurowake said: There are plenty of oyakata who are not interested in foreign recruits. I don't know how many of those there are, but I suspect most if not all of the open slots are under such oyakata. If Ochil is as good as advertised, he should manage to find a suitor. I wonder if his unofficial affiliation with Isegahama would make other shisho think taking him would mean pissing Isegahama off... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yorikiried by fate 1,989 Posted March 27 2 hours ago, Asashosakari said: An interesting development is that so little is known about most of the heya that don't have a foreign rikishi. Back at the end of the early 2000s recruiting boom when the number of foreigners reached 60+, there were only like four stables left without one, and for all of them it was outright known that they wouldn't be trying to recruit because all the shisho in question had publicly voiced their lack of interest in doing so. These days, except for the handful of cases where some recruit is known to be in the pipeline and just not official yet, it's almost completely guesswork what's going on. The development has indeed some peculiar shape. After the maximum of 63 foreigners in September 2006 the number decreased to around 55ish before The Great Yaocho Purge. The latter led to a drop to 47 after the TET. From there, it decreased for almost a decade and has now stabilized to around 27ish since late 2020. How this relates to oyakate attitude is quite opaque. If anything, the younger stablemasters should be more likely to embrace more modern ideas, like entertaining foreign devils. On the other hand, maybe they are a resentful bunch with painful meories of what types pushed them around... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jakusotsu 5,817 Posted March 27 Lack of willing and suitable candidates perhaps? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 691 Posted March 27 1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said: After the maximum of 63 foreigners in September 2006 the number decreased to around 55ish before The Great Yaocho Purge. The latter led to a drop to 47 after the TET. From there, it decreased for almost a decade and has now stabilized to around 27ish since late 2020. Look at all the colours! Those were exciting times. Makuuchi Banzuke Result East Heya High Prev Rank West Heya High Prev Result 15-0 Y Asashoryu Takasago Y 13-2 Y Y 9-6 Chiyotaikai Kokonoe O 10-5 O Kotooshu Sadogatake O 10-5 10-5 10-5 Tochiazuma Tamanoi O 9-6 O Hakuho Miyagino O 8-7 0-0-15 O Kaio Tomozuna O 1-6-8 10-5 8-7 Miyabiyama Musashigawa O 9-6 S Kotomitsuki Sadogatake S 8-7 9-6 8-7 Kisenosato Naruto K 8-7 S K Kokkai Oitekaze K 8-7 3-12 ↓ 6-9 ↓ Aminishiki Ajigawa K 11-4 JG ↑ K Roho Otake K 10-5 ↑ 8-7 6-9 Ama Ajigawa K 11-4 JK M1 Iwakiyama Sakaigawa K 10-5 2-13 10-5 G Kotoshogiku Sadogatake M1 10-5 M2 Futeno Dewanoumi K 9-6 5-10 9-6 Tokitenku Tokitsukaze M1 7-8 M3 Dejima Musashigawa O 7-8 10-5 6-9 Takekaze Oguruma M3 10-5 M4 Kakizoe Musashigawa K 9-6 6-9 0-9-6 ↓ Hokutoriki Hakkaku S 10-5 M5 Tochinonada Kasugano S 7-8 7-8 10-5 Kyokutenho Oshima S 6-9 M6 Baruto Onoe M1 4-7-4 10-5 2-9-4 Tamanoshima Kataonami S 4-11 M7 Kasugao Kasugayama M6 8-7 8-7 5-10 Toyozakura Michinoku M5 11-4 D ↑ M8 Kakuryu Izutsu M8 9-6 ↑ 8-7 10-5 Takamisakari Azumazeki K 7-8 M9 Asasekiryu Takasago K 7-8 10-5 0-2 Kyokushuzan Oshima K 6-9 M10 Toyonoshima Tokitsukaze M6 4-11 8-7 12-3 JGK Homasho Shikoroyama M11 7-8 M11 Kitazakura Kitanoumi M9 10-5 ↑ 4-11 ↓ 5-10 Ushiomaru Azumazeki M10 9-6 ↑ M12 Tosanoumi Isenoumi S 7-8 5-10 6-9 Asofuji Ajigawa M13 8-7 ↑ M13 Tochinohana Kasugano K 7-8 8-7 9-6 Tamakasuga Kataonami S 1-14 M14 Hakurozan Kitanoumi M2 5-10 7-8 7-8 Otsukasa Irumagawa M4 10-5 ↑ M15 Katayama Onomatsu M13 8-7 ↑ 6-9 ↓ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tochinofuji 372 Posted March 27 4 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said: The development has indeed some peculiar shape. After the maximum of 63 foreigners in September 2006 the number decreased to around 55ish before The Great Yaocho Purge. The latter led to a drop to 47 after the TET. From there, it decreased for almost a decade and has now stabilized to around 27ish since late 2020. How this relates to oyakate attitude is quite opaque. If anything, the younger stablemasters should be more likely to embrace more modern ideas, like entertaining foreign devils. On the other hand, maybe they are a resentful bunch with painful meories of what types pushed them around... I've seen the acronym TET brought up lately, and while I assume it's the closed door tournament post yaocho fun, what does it stand for? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,137 Posted March 27 May 2011 tournament = technical examination tournament 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 691 Posted March 27 11 minutes ago, Katooshu said: May 2011 tournament = technical examination tournament What exactly was examined? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reonito 1,340 Posted March 27 39 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said: What exactly was examined? where everyone should be ranked in July Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bunbukuchagama 691 Posted March 27 10 minutes ago, Reonito said: where everyone should be ranked in July Oh... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Godango 956 Posted March 28 They held the technical examination tournament at the Kokugikan as usual, but there was no charge for admission, no Emperor's Cup on the line, and no cash prizes. The bouts still counted towards the wrestlers' lifetime records and as stated the tournament was used to decide the rankings for the following basho. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 39,888 Posted March 28 The rijikai today decided that the heya closes and Miyagino and the rikishi for the time being (tomen) move to Isegahama-beya. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/03/28/0017480927.shtml Tomen is temporary, but usually for longer 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Katooshu 3,137 Posted March 28 (edited) Trying to get around in Isegahama beya Edited March 29 by Katooshu 1 10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WAKATAKE 2,637 Posted March 28 21 minutes ago, Akinomaki said: The rijikai today decided that the heya closes and Miyagino and the rikishi for the time being (tomen) move to Isegahama-beya. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/03/28/0017480927.shtml Tomen is temporary, but usually for longer Meaning we could be seeing a Kise? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Akinomaki 39,888 Posted March 28 6 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said: Meaning we could be seeing a Kise? I think it will be less than two years - the NSK gets bashed from all sides for this treatment of the GOAT. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Leoben 121 Posted March 28 Is it safe to say now that Hakuho isn't being pushed to leave, and that this really is a temporary arrangement with the expectation that he'll reopen his stable after he completes his internship under Isegahama? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
themistyseas 226 Posted March 28 2 hours ago, Akinomaki said: I think it will be less than two years - the NSK gets bashed from all sides for this treatment of the GOAT. 1 hour ago, Leoben said: Is it safe to say now that Hakuho isn't being pushed to leave, and that this really is a temporary arrangement with the expectation that he'll reopen his stable after he completes his internship under Isegahama? Worth pointing out in the context of both comments that Isegahama himself is only going to be around as shisho for another 14 months, so it surely it won't be much longer - if it's even that long - than that? Feels like the best case scenario for Hakuho. Some folks have mentioned the real estate investment in his new heya building in Nihombashi having stuttered. Feels like this would be the ideal time to get the building work done, although I know it's a big bet to invest in a project which may or may not yet come to fruition. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites