Aki Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

With all 3 yokos being healthy, and Takayasu looking strong, Mitakeumi's chance at 10+ wins isn't looking good.  

11 wins is what he needs really. The 9-6 two basho ago can certainly count towards a 33/45 record but isn’t, in my view, strong enough to support a promotion if he only gets 10 wins this time, unless I suppose he manages a decent record against the Y/O.

[Tiger Tanaka 226]

I'm not sure 11 does it unless he has 2 wins against Y/O (unless there is a mass kyujo of the top ranks again). 12 should do it though. Personally, even though Mitakeumi has been my favorite since following the sport during the beginning of 2017, I don't want to see him promoted too soon. The purpose of the 33 win guideline is that you very likely have to be challenging and beating Y/O rikishi regularly to amount that win total consistently. Mita has shown the ability to hang with that crop, but I want to see it again to cap off the run. Last thing I'd want is to see him get promoted with 11 weak wins (Y/O go kyujo in mass again), and then Mita struggles and goes on the kadoban carousel because he wasn't ready. I do think he's on the brink though and week 2 should be very interesting. First thing's first, take care of all the maegashira and get off to a 7-1, 8-1 start.

[Rocks 1,810]

I think they make Mitakeumi Ozeki with 11 wins regardless of who those 11 wins come against. 10 wins won't cut it though. 10 wins will still keep him on the ozeki run though. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I think they make Mitakeumi Ozeki with 11 wins regardless of who those 11 wins come against. 10 wins won't cut it though. 10 wins will still keep him on the ozeki run though. 

Good point about 10 wins simply continuing the Ozeki run, not ending it.

As for the 10 versus 11 wins, I basically agree but I could see a scenario where he gets 10 wins and promotion if he beats a majority of the guys above him. If, say, he can defeat two of three each of the Yokozuna and Ozeki I think they’d at least consider a 10 win record. Don’t see it happening though.

[rhyen 1,858]

Ura wins, still using his submarine tachiai.  

[Joaoiyama 318]

I think Mitakeumi can handle Goeido, Takayasu, Kisenosato and Kakuryu this tournament. If so and he get's 10 wins a promotion wouldn't be outrageous.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Joaoiyama

[rhyen 1,858]

Chiyoshoma has now mastered the double henka, when will he show us the triple henka?

[Akōgyokuseki 229]

4 hours ago, rhyen said:

Ura wins, still using his submarine tachiai.  

I didn't catch the match, but I saw the replay of his bout on the stream, so glad to see him back!

 

Kakuryū analysis day 2:...

(I got this idea from Takanohana's old blog )

..Very calm and in control, kept his feet and showed why poor Kaisei is yet to best him in a Basho! Great stuff!

[Dwale 419]

Mitakeumi looked pretty cool defending against that blitz. I think a lesser wrestler would have been blown into the cheap seats like a cannonball.

Takakeisho wasn't screwing around. Amazed and pleased that Kisenosato managed to keep his head and turn that into a win. Too early IMO to say he's back to his old self, but these past two matches make me hopeful. 

Enho's win was very cool as well.

[Andreas21 221]

19 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

Yoshikaze's foot does matter. Doesn't it?

 

19 hours ago, Asojima said:

Only up to the point where Chiyoshoma goes airborne.  At that point, the match has already ended.

 

21 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

This was definitely a shinitai decision, and rightfully so with Chiyoshoma flying through the air. Wish they'd call it consistently so, which they unfortunately don't.

What could have been discussed in Mono-ii is that his left foot had been out right in the moment when Utchari started. If it was out, Yoshi had lost, no way Chiyoshoma was Shinitai already then. First, I had the impression that Yoshi retracted his foot when he felt the ground. But it could be that he was aware that he was close and retracted right before.

Anyway, the Gyoji was not able to see that from his angle, and the head Shimpan neither, only the Shimpan on the right side had the prefect view - better than ours. Probably they trusted that this Shimpan would have intervened if he saw the foot out.

Of course, later on Yoshikazes foot was out first but Chiyoshoma was Shinitai - there is no question about that. And I feel that these clear cases of Shinitai are decided rather consistently.

Great Utchari regardless!

[Morty 1,518]

21 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

I think you're misunderstanding that last sentence in the description. There is no technical requirement for how an utchari has to be executed, there are plenty where the winner barely pivots at all. All the description says is that the pivoting is what tends to make the opponent touch down first, and that's how utchari can result in a win.

This was definitely a shinitai decision, and rightfully so with Chiyoshoma flying through the air. Wish they'd call it consistently so, which they unfortunately don't.

Yep, I was just quoting the description, I don't have a clue of the actual details with half of these kimarite . But I know an Utchari when I see one and that was an Utchari....

[Amamaniac 2,092]

Noticed that one of Kisenosato's tsukibito is wearing a very cool spiderweb-design yukata (white on black) sponsored by Takayasu (i.e., same stable as Kise).  I'd post a screen capture here, but I can't seem to get it small enough to be accepted by forum regulations.

Likewise, on Day 2, there was a group of Kise fans holding a white sheet with well wishes and signatures for the Yokozuna's comeback.  All that was missing there was the hinomaru.

And lastly, with regard to Kisenosato, he ended up sitting right beside his oyakata (serving as one of the five ringside judges) before and after his bout.  Tagonoura looked very relieved that his wrestler managed to pull a shiroboshi out of the fire that was Takakeisho!

Edited September 10, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Amamaniac 2,092]

Two straight wins for Takanoiwa.  He is looking right at home in the Makuuchi Division.  He was even a gentleman on Day 1 allowing Ryuden to go first up the stairs after the two wrestlers tumbled down off the ring.  

It won't happen this year, but in all likelihood he will be facing the wrestlers (i.e., Hakuho and Kakuryu) who were present when "the beer bottle hit the fan" (not to mention Takanoiwa's head) in Tottori less than a year ago.  All indications are that he has made a complete recovery, and maybe learned to show a little more respect.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Andreas21 221]

9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

As for the 10 versus 11 wins, I basically agree but I could see a scenario where he gets 10 wins and promotion if he beats a majority of the guys above him. If, say, he can defeat two of three each of the Yokozuna and Ozeki I think they’d at least consider a 10 win record. Don’t see it happening though.

I don't think losing to Hiramaku is what supports his case of promotion - which is inevitable when he wins against Ozeki/Yokozuna at 10 wins. Losing to a Yokozuna/Ozeki in a close fight with a good effort is doing the least damage.

9 hours ago, Rocks said:

I think they make Mitakeumi Ozeki with 11 wins regardless of who those 11 wins come against. 10 wins won't cut it though. 10 wins will still keep him on the ozeki run though. 

My take is: 11 does it unless it is done with ugly Sumo and too much luck. 9 wins will not do it regardless, and 10 might do it if the Sumo is at least as convincing as last basho.

9 hours ago, Tiger Tanaka said:

The purpose of the 33 win guideline is that you very likely have to be challenging and beating Y/O rikishi regularly to amount that win total consistently.

There is no guideline as such. All that we have are the last cases of promotion vs. non-promotion. There have been promotions with 32 wins, there are promotions which didn't start in Sanyaku as the first-of-three, and so on. It is obvious that promotion to Ozeki is decided on a case-by-case basis.

[mikawa 1,794]

That was Ozeki-esque sumo today from Mitakeumi, the way he kept inside in spite of Chiyotairyu's attack and then the footwork to turn it around was amazing

[Asojima 2,874]

1 hour ago, Andreas21 said:

I don't think losing to Hiramaku is what supports his case of promotion - which is inevitable when he wins against Ozeki/Yokozuna at 10 wins. Losing to a Yokozuna/Ozeki in a close fight with a good effort is doing the least damage.

 

A clean sweep of the hiramaku/sanyaku is more important than wins over some struggling Y/O.

[Kotogouryuu 143]

Well, that ought to give Kisenosato a bit of a confidence boost

[Rocks 1,810]

Interesting day. I thought Ichinojo had him but Takayasu fought hard and pulled it out. But these last 2 matches took a lot out of him.

Kakuyu and Hakuho both look good but they have had opponents they handled easily in the past so far.

Mitakeumi looks a bit on edge but solid. Tochinoshin looks okay but you get the feeling he will be very happy with 8 wins and won't push too hard after that.

Kisenosato? Back? I don't know about that. But he looks better than he has in a long while and is showing some strength and resilience,

Day 3 is the will be a good test:

Can Takayasu withstand the cannonball of Chiyotairyu?

Hakuho and Kauryu have it easy.

Mitakeumi has Tamawashi who is a mess but gives Mita  a hard time.

Tochoinoshin has Takakeisho and Tochi has trouble with the little guys.

Kiseonosato has a real test in Yutakayama as he has real heft. The one good thing is Yuta will not throw any weird moves at Kise. Does Kise have the strength for real?

 

 

Oh, and one more. Hakuyozan is not going very much further up the ladder if he can't easily handle Enho. That was embarrassing.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Rocks

[Kintamayama 47,232]

17 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Mitakeumi has Tamawashi who is a mess but gives Mita  a hard time.

 

I wouldn't call a 2-12 past meetings head to head a sign of Tamawashi giving Mitakeumi any sort of hard time.

[Rocks 1,810]

Just now, Kintamayama said:

I wouldn't call a 2-12 past meetings head to head a sign of Tamawashi giving Mitakeumi any sort of hard time.

Ooops! I read that the other way around. My bad. I guess I need more coffee.

[Kintamayama 47,232]

Hakuhou said that a  few seconds into the match he heard (or thought he heard) the gyoji shout "matta" and that is why he let up around the three- second mark. He was experienced enough to turn it around in the end though, he said. I've looked at it a few times and see no sign of anything like that..

[Gernobono 467]

16 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Hakuhou said that a  few seconds into the match he heard (or thought he heard) the gyoji shout "matta" and that is why he let up around the three- second mark. He was experienced enough to turn it around in the end though, he said. I've looked at it a few times and see no sign of anything like that..

Maybe you are not that experienced in "looking" 

[Benevolance 2,534]

18 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

Q1: If your whole body is already airborne outside the dohyō, you’ve lost. You can’t jump 3 meters out and win the match just because you delayed your landing while your opponent puts a foot out. There’s a rule called “shinitai” which means “dead body”, if you’re in a position where you can’t do anything to directly make your opponent lose, you can’t win. For example during tsuridashi (pick up the opponent off his feet with both hands on the mawashi), the rikishi is allowed to step outside the dohyō and win before putting the opponent down. Just because the opponent is considered a dead body I presume.

Q2: The shinitai rule is a weird one, some times it seems to go completely ignored by the shinpan for no real reason.

Indeed. I recall Orora losing a match in the last few years by this exact set of circumstances. There was even an editorial cartoon. 

[Kintamayama 47,232]

21 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

Maybe you are not that experienced in "looking" 

Do you see something strange there? It just looked like Ikioi got a better hold.

[Gooner 39]

Asanoyama looks very calm and good. I think he is a very complete rikishi. For me the biggest hope of all the youngsters.