Harumafuji scandal thread- part 2

[Kintamayama 45,565]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

You got me guys. So I will finally book the cryogenic procedure I've been contemplating for a while and hopefully wake up in a world where everyone who reflects about "our ways" enters a disbelieving (no offense intended, nevertheless quite welcome) laughing frenzy.

I think I might be offended if I understood some of the words..

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

 

I love you too, Martin.

[Kintamayama 45,565]

The Takanohana beya homepage is saying Takanoiwa will be back in March. "Today, I would like to apologize deeply to everyone for the bother the whole affair with my deshi Takanoiwa has caused. I will now report on his situation, as he is kyujo from this basho. The diagnosis is head injury, scalp scar ,. right mastoid inflammation. Since in sumo, strong head contact is unavoidable, there is a risk of Chronic subdural hematoma development. The doctor has demanded no "head contact" for three months, so it was inevitable that he sit Hatsu basho out. He has suffered serious damage and has been worried about the possible consequences, and has been undergoing many treatments lately.. At present, he is finally able to move his body  and is slowly rehabilitating himself. I have decided he will be entering March, but will be consulting the doctor as to Takanoiwa's readiness, mind and soul. He is still young and his future is before him. For that to happen, he needs to put all this behind him. To do that, he needs to overcome physical and mental anxieties and fear of the aftereffects from all this. I will lead him without letting up. This will be his way of thanking all the people who have worried about him. I hope everyone will support him warmly in the future."  Takanohana. 

Some more stuff about seriousness of life on the dohyo etc., but too many words I never heard..

[Akinomaki 40,833]

I had mentioned it in the thread that's now in oblivion:

The lawyers of Yomiuri TV and the NSK are presently discussing about the letter of protest the NSK sent to the TV company to complain about biased reporting in the Miyane-ya wide show from Dec. 1st, presenting as news the hearsay that Takanohana had told Hakkaku about it before he went to the police. The NSK had demanded an apology and a correction of the broadcast.

The discussion aims to decide if it was a clear violation of broadcast ethics.

http://www.daily.co.jp/gossip/2018/01/17/0010905764.shtml

Meanwhile Yukan Fuji published a correction http://www.zakzak.co.jp/spo/news/180118/spo1801180009-n1.html

for an article on the 16th (on page 1)  http://www.zakzak.co.jp/spo/news/180117/spo1801170004-n1.html  - about a gang of 4 in the NSK

having ordered to conceal the events - the NSK had claimed on the day that there is no such truth and gave some more comments.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Yatagarasu 352]

I just came here to have a little sigh and say that, as exciting as this basho is, I do miss seeing Harumafuji.  I found his sumo beautiful and I miss the way he used to crouch forward really low during his shikiri and do his little wiggle.  

SIGH!

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

I would be genuinly interested in this forum's members take on Mike Wesemann's comments concerning the whole Takanoiwa incident over at The Dark Side. Particularly the timeline and the alleged photographic evidence concerning Takanoiwa's physical state at certain dates makes me have deep thoughts.

I dare you to read it and re-enter here with your own knowledge. Any comment would be appreciated. I promise to you that yaocho is only mentioned once or twice...

[Rocks 1,809]

My comment? Who says Takanoiwa had visible injuries to his face from Harumafuji? Anything in the later pic of his face, such as the bump on his forehead could come from anything. The suggestion they are "fighting" at exhibition events is ridiculous. The bout in the video shows that and actually might lend weight to the idea Takanoiwa is hurt even then. Takanoiwa bends his head side to side and blinks as he reaches the extent of the movement left and right. Are these winces of pain caused by moving his aching head around? The following bout is a joke even by exhibition standards. Takanoiwa does just enough to guide Ikioi out of the ring. Putting little effort out for the fans even to do the usual "exhibition".  As far as the head cut the mage can easily be made to cover that. Takanoiw was stated to be attempting to hide what happened  As far as the physical evidence I don't see anything which conclusively contradicts the idea Takanoiwa was hurt from the start.

[Burajirotono 99]

Man, all this case stinks bad!

Is hard to have a clean vision of the incident here in the oposite side of the globe, and, as a guy who did some journalism i can not be desonest and jump in to conclusions...But some facts are screaming: Takanohana conduced the case in a very shady way. This is a fact. I dont see the world as a place with totaly bad and totaly good men...Like Hak is the hero and Taka the demon or vice versa, but we sure have a backstage war ongoing. Taka plays for Harumafuji´s intai, he knowed that in public´s mind (even, maybe, in a subconcious level) he is the guy who breaked the japanese zuna...So it was a ball ready to be kicked as we say here in Brasil. This is also a fact. Hak is getting older and the (dai) yokozuna spot will be open, vultures are smelling rotten flesh...

Latet anguis in herba.

[Benevolance 2,511]

No offense intended, but I think it reads like an internet conspiracy theory...it clearly sets up Takanohana as the story's villain in the first paragraph, draws false equivalencies along the way, then centers the discussion on the brave journalist fighting against an obviously rigged system, like the yaocho that only he can see, which is apparently proof enough of his correctness. Also, I didn't see a publication date, but I'm pretty sure that the NSK *had* visited Takanoiwa in the hospital prior to giving out their special "no demotion" dispensation mentioned in the article, which further calls into question the accuracy of the reporting. I think the kindest way to look at it is as third rate journalism.

But I found his assertion that Takanohana was removed from jungyo duties at the specific request of *rikishi* interesting. I don't recall that being brought up on the forums or news reports. I doubt the veracity of the statement, given its author and lack of citations, but could someone on the forums confirm or deny that? 

 

[Akinomaki 40,833]

6 hours ago, Benevolance said:

I found his assertion that Takanohana was removed from jungyo duties at the specific request of *rikishi* interesting. I don't recall that being brought up on the forums or news reports. I doubt the veracity of the statement, given its author and lack of citations, but could someone on the forums confirm or deny that? 

Discussed in oblivion that Hakuho was reported as having been the spokesman of the rikishi which saw it at as impossible to take part in the jungyo with Taka as the head of it. This is no direct request, but to see it like this is permissible.

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

Thanks for your opinions. But again: What about Takanoiwa's appearance?  Did any other sources (that I don't know and probably cannot read) point out that he looked quite normal right after the incident? (I don't buy Rocks' view on that.) Either Mike has his images' dates wrong, or something about the whole architecture of the case is very wrong.

[ALAKTORN 346]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Thanks for your opinions. But again: What about Takanoiwa's appearance?  Did any other sources (that I don't know and probably cannot read) point out that he looked quite normal right after the incident? (I don't buy Rocks' view on that.) Either Mike has his images' dates wrong, or something about the whole architecture of the case is very wrong.

No one is denying that Takanoiwa looked healthy.

[Benevolance 2,511]

11 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Discussed in oblivion that Hakuho was reported as having been the spokesman of the rikishi which saw it at as impossible to take part in the jungyo with Taka as the head of it. This is no direct request, but to see it like this is permissible.

Okay, I can see that interpretation. Fair enough. 

11 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

But again: What about Takanoiwa's appearance?

I'm not sure what to think of the images. The images and truncated video appear to support the author's assertions. The images themselves appeared to simply be screenshots from the video.  However, given the tone of the article and a lack of citations, I cannot independently verify its accuracy. So I'm skeptical of the 'evidence' as it were. And that's my problem with the whole piece - it's an opinion piece, not a journalistic essay. 

If I really cared about this, I would dig through Akinomaki's photostream during the scandal and see if similar images used were included there. To me, Akinomaki's reputation is well established and solid, his posts are timely with respect to original publication dates, and he includes links to the sources used, which are often newspapers or journals. That would present a more unbiased representation.

12 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Either Mike has his images' dates wrong, or something about the whole architecture of the case is very wrong.

I don't think it's a clear dichotomy. Even Mike having his dates right is still not indicative of actual conspiracy. Sumo wrestlers have a reputation for tenacity. Takanoiwa certainly could have aggravated his injuries later on, yet the proximate cause could still be the initial beating. Regardless of the internal politics of how and when the information was presented, the sumo association itself has visited Takanoiwa in the hospital, and verified that he is sufficiently injured to give him a special warrant against demotion. Takanoiwa got off with a pretty light suspension at the end of it all. Speculating further on those specifics from afar doesn't seem a fruitful endeavor. More information may come out eventually. 

I'll also add, I'm not a big fan of conspiracy theories. If there is one thing I've learned from auditing, it's that if you're looking for evidence of conspiracy, you can often find evidence of a conspiracy where one doesn't exist. The most common explanation is carelessness and human stupidity. 

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

I just followed your suggestion and waded through the picture links for the jungyo, but I couldn't positively clock Takanoiwa on any after the relevant date. What I did find elsewhere, though, is that some publications obviously used footage from an event discussed here to illustrate the incident. And that is really sick.

Edited January 20, 2018 by yorikiried by fate

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

Additionally, the photo generally used by the media to illustrate Takanoiwa's injuries as shown in Mike's article is a mild photoshop of a picture that was already used in May 2017 in various articles, for example in this one.

Edited January 20, 2018 by yorikiried by fate

[Akinomaki 40,833]

I keep telling that all that shows an injured or battered Takanoiwa is from years ago - and about twice  of that was in the lost thread, where also the pics and videos were posted that show a completely fit Takanoiwa at the jungyo and a slightly absent looking Takanoiwa on visits with Taka and fellow sekitori just before he went to hospital for the check.

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

 the sumo association itself has visited Takanoiwa in the hospital, and verified that he is sufficiently injured to give him a special warrant against demotion.

We actually have nearly no information about what they saw and what they verified and at what kind of facility (many things can be called hospital in Japan). Hakkaku gave the promise of no demotion before any check, simply in return for any kind of certificate. They saw a Takanoiwa in a bad condition, but from how close and what they could ask him is unknown, and also if others simply presented him as in this or that condition or if he told about his condition.

I remember complaints that where clearly imagined recently, going well with recent developments but getting presented as if Takanoiwa had talked like that just after assault.

 

Edited January 20, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Rocks 1,809]

5 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Additionally, the photo generally used by the media to illustrate Takanoiwa's injuries as shown in Mike's article is a mild photoshop of a picture that was already used in May 2017 in various articles, for example in this one.

I have to ask again. Why would any photo, other than a closeup the top of Takanoiwa's head, show any injuries? Where has it be claimed any part of his body other than his head, not face,  was hit by Harumafuji or was injured? For all anybody knows he could have 30 stitches under that mage and you wouldn't be able to see it without moving his hair. 

[yorikiried by fate 2,029]

18 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

I keep telling that all that shows an injured or battered Takanoiwa is from years ago [...]

I apologize for missing that.

 

12 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I have to ask again. Why would any photo, other than a closeup the top of Takanoiwa's head, show any injuries? Where has it be claimed any part of his body other than his head, not face,  was hit by Harumafuji or was injured? [...]

Excuse me, but that excuse is just far-fetched. Head, not face. Are you serious?

 

In any case, even though a good conspiracy is not quite as much loved around here as at Mike's lair, one thing has become clear to me. The way the media has handled this by producing photos that had nothing to do with the thing, suggests a witch-hunt (towards Harumafuji). That certainly cannot be disputed.

 

Anyway, thanks once more for all the comments, also the ones I cannot really relate to.

[Rocks 1,809]

1 minute ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Excuse me, but that excuse is just far-fetched. Head, not face. Are you serious?

What excuse? Why wouldn't I be serious? This wasn't a fight between 2 people. Takanoiwa never struck Harumafuji. All reports are Takanoiwa was seated looking at his phone when Harumfuji began striking him on the head.  No one has suggested even once Takanoiwa was struck in the face or his body.  Does anyone think Takanoiwa put his face up in Harumafuji's? He ducked his head down and took the blows. It was discipline. Everyone there saw it as that. Its when Harumafuji didn't relent that people stepped in. 

[rzombie1988 159]

I'll guarantee Harumafuji would still be wrestling if he were Japanese. I'll also guarantee there were tons of similar incidents over the years that got swept under the rug.

Just another example of the wussification of society and the worrisome blackballing culture that is being redeveloped. Reminds me a lot of dictator-ruled countries.

It's a pretty big loss for sumo. Harumafuji was the most likeable of the Yokozuna and was the 2nd best wrestler. He likely would have had double the titles had it not been for Hakuho. Really gonna miss the guy and I feel bad that one incident was all it took after a clean career.

 

Edited January 21, 2018 by rzombie1988

[orandashoho 720]

Perhaps it is going to now make people realize that no matter how respected and liked they may be, violent behaviour will get them ousted.
The only place for getting physical is the dohyo, and within the sumo rules of engagement.

It's a crying shame that it's Harumafuji of all people who got to be the living example of the no-tolerance policy, but this just couldn't be swept under the rug, especially after the attempt to hide it by remaining silent caused such an unholy mess. 

[Oshirokita 192]

Harumafuji was long one of my favorite rikishi. I always delighted to see him compete and find ways to win on the dohyo. But he was publicly caught out beating a junior rikishi and for his violent action had to be removed from sumo. Is sumo a violent sport? Yes, of course. Have other rikishi behaved with violence for "hazing" or "discipline" or "training"? I am certain they have, but not being an insider to the sumo world have no idea how prevalent it is (although I assume it has been diminished from 10 years ago). Violence and corporal "discipline" have no place in today's society. Sumo may have an ancient tradition (and I appreciate the ceremonial aspects of it which add to the pageantry), but sumo has to be viewed through the lens of today's society and modern views on violence. As such, regardless of any other consideration, rikishi or gyoji or anyone committing acts outside of competition on the dohyo (physical attacks, assault, etc.) have to be disciplined.

As for Takanoiwa, I do not know what his physical status is but I feel that sumo has largely ignored the seriousness of concussion injury. It seems to be very rarely discussed, even though other sports (NFL, NHL, pro wrestling, etc.) have made large strides to deal with this issue (often in response to potential class action suits). If Takanoiwa was seriously concussed, then his entire career and even quality of life is in jeopardy and Takanohana would be justified to protect his rikishi from harm. I hope Takanoiwa is able to make a full recovery and return to action. My two yen. 

[Akinomaki 40,833]

Harumafuji had paid his court fine of 500 000 yen from the summary court on the 15th.

http://rd.kyodo-d.info/np/2018012201001624?c=39546741839462401

[Akinomaki 40,833]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Harumafuji had paid his court fine of 500 000 yen from the summary court on the 15th.

I think it wasn't mentioned in detail yet: he was fined for causing an injury of about 12 days.

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/national/20180122-OYT1T50045.html

[Rocks 1,809]

I'm surprised no reporter called this scandal the Bungle in the Jugyo.