Kintamayama

Harumafuji scandal thread- part 2

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1 hour ago, Marcus33 said:

PTSD from getting banged on the head with a remote control?  Not only is that silly, it's an insult to military veterans who have the real thing. I'm more inclined to think that Takanohana is just making stuff up.

Suffering PTSD following a violent assault is nothing silly. Again, more computer chair psychiatry. 

It's certainly possible that Takanohana is making things up. However, until you can present some pretty compelling evidence establishing that, alleging an individual is making up a serious medical condition that many would rather not admit to in public is not exactly sporting. 

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3 minutes ago, Tochinofuji said:

Suffering PTSD following a violent assault is nothing silly. Again, more computer chair psychiatry. 

It's certainly possible that Takanohana is making things up. However, until you can present some pretty compelling evidence establishing that, alleging an individual is making up a serious medical condition that many would rather not admit to in public is not exactly sporting. 

Has Takanoiwa  said anything about having PTSD or is it just Takanohana?  I think we've seen plenty of indications that Takanohanas motives are suspect. He seems to have exaggerated everything about the incident.

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2 minutes ago, Marcus33 said:

Has Takanoiwa  said anything about having PTSD or is it just Takanohana?  I think we've seen plenty of indications that Takanohanas motives are suspect. He seems to have exaggerated everything about the incident.

I'll have to defer to those better informed than I to shed any light on that. And I'd agree that Takanohana's behaviour definitely makes his motivations suspect. I have no issue with people speculating as to Takanohana's motivations and machinations. But imputing those to Takanoiwa and proposing to call him out, without serious evidence, as not suffering from a condition which a medical certificate ascribes to him is something I can't get behind. If evidence arises, have at it, but until then I'd suggest the better road is to stick to sticking it to Takanohana if that's your thing, rather than Takanoiwa. 

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25 minutes ago, Tochinofuji said:

as not suffering from a condition which a medical certificate ascribes to him

And we all know how trustworthy those medical certificates are. (broken leg - 2 weeks; complete tear of the ACL - 1 month; decapitated head - take 2 asprin and call back in the morning)  ;-)

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26 minutes ago, Fukurou said:

And we all know how trustworthy those medical certificates are. (broken leg - 2 weeks; complete tear of the ACL - 1 month; decapitated head - take 2 asprin and call back in the morning)  ;-)

Hey, as they say, what an aspirin suppository won't cure, there is no cure for! 

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OK, so after everything that has happened, including Takanohana's complete repentance and demotion and election humiliation and apologies and promises to stick to the rules and be a good boy from now on, and after Takanoiwa was released from solitary confinement by the good people led by Akinomaki and actually entered a full basho, why on earth would Takanohana need to invent a mental malady for Takanoiwa at this juncture? I can understand (but not agree with) those who insist he exaggerated Takanoiwa's condition to make a point back then, but now? Really? Why? What is the motivation? What is the point? It ultimately left him out of the jungyo. Oh, wait a minute.. I know!! He didn't want to do those humiliating shinpan duties at the jungyo so he invented this so that the bigwigs will make him stay at the heya and take care of his rikishi. What a diabolical man he is, this Takanohana character!!  Now, to get out of the May Basho shinpan duties as well.. I'm sure he is hatching an even more diabolical plot as we speak. 

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17 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Takanohana's complete > shown < repentance and demotion and election humiliation and apologies and promises to stick to the rules and be a good boy from now on

why on earth would Takanohana need to invent a mental malady for Takanoiwa at this juncture?

not invent, continue to nurture - to harvest from at the upcoming civil suit against Harumafuji - and  Hakuho if he can.

He needs to get his investments back of having a special trauma treatment for Takanoiwa for at least a month and a half: from the point for which Takanoiwa had been declared fully recovered and able to do sumo by real medical doctors, over a period without access to doctors who would have provided the required certificate of his inability to do sumo at the jungyo, till the point where he was shown feeble and sick to representatives of the NSK - and afterwards the whole time to stabilize that condition.

Taka only gave his show of repentance for the things he could no longer hide and for the infractions for which evidence had piled up. Enough to avoid heya close-down and cancellation of contract for the moment - if he won't show relapses.

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Just now, Akinomaki said:

not invent, continue to nurture - to harvest from at the upcoming civil suit against Harumafuji - and  Hakuho if he can.

He needs to get his investments back of having a special trauma treatment for Takanoiwa for at least a month and a half: from the point for which Takanoiwa had been declared fully recovered and able to do sumo by real medical doctors, over a period without access to doctors who would have provided the required certificate of his inability to do sumo at the jungyo, till the point where he was shown feeble and sick to representatives of the NSK - and afterwards the whole time to stabilize that condition.

Taka only gave his show of repentance for the things he could no longer hide and for the infractions for which evidence had piled up. Enough to avoid heya close-down and cancellation of contract for the moment - if he won't show relapses.

Sorry, I still don't understand why he NOW needs to continue his diabolical plan. Takanoiwa was already seen at the basho. Takanohana has already been punished. He has promised to start from zero. Why continue? Please be more specific.

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19 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Sorry, I still don't understand why he NOW needs to continue his diabolical plan. Takanoiwa was already seen at the basho. Takanohana has already been punished. He has promised to start from zero. Why continue? Please be more specific.

He would not only be evicted if he had to admit that he had caused the PTSD by denying Takanoiwa the appropriate treatment when he was still able to do sumo at the start of the Kyushu basho, and instead made him concentrate in seclusion on the trauma and on being sick - he then also would lose the public support of the millions of blind believers in Taka's logic.

That story is still part of his reality - people stick to the view of reality they have created: you still on  believing him, I on being convinced that he still hides 80% of the truth.

Edited by Akinomaki
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@Akinomaki- who or what caused Takanoiwa's affliction is a call that's not always straightforward to make, and in any case it's not your place, or mine, or Moti's. If anything, it's not fair to Takanoiwa. Yet you seem to have solved the case. 

If he does have PTSD, it may also have multiple contributing factors. It may also not be the first time in his life that he's had it. For all we know, Takanoiwa once witness a man getting killed due to a brick falling on his head and the attack brought him flashbacks. There are so many relevant details completely missing and Takanoiwa himself is not sharing anything about his own state. 

In my view, this is not the story to fill in the blanks blindly and use it as an argument in a debate on sumo politics. 

 

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1 hour ago, Atenzan said:

@Akinomaki- who or what caused Takanoiwa's affliction is a call that's not always straightforward to make, and in any case it's not your place, or mine, or Moti's. If anything, it's not fair to Takanoiwa. Yet you seem to have solved the case. 

Why should it be fair to Takanoiwa to accept the improbable story of Taka? Just because it is possible and because you refuse to doubt what he says? I simply add the evidence and chose the more likely explanation - exactly BECAUSE the followers of Taka chose to dismiss it as unfair, biased, illogical etc.

I only have solved the case that Taka doesn't deserve to be trusted anymore - everything else is based on that

Edited by Akinomaki

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17 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Why should it be fair to Takanoiwa to accept the improbable story of Taka? Just because it is possible and because you refuse to doubt what he says? I simply add the evidence and chose the more likely explanation - exactly BECAUSE the followers of Taka chose to dismiss it as unfair, biased, illogical etc.

I only have solved the case that Taka doesn't deserve to be trusted - everything else is based on that

As I've said multiple times, I don't know what's going on in Takanoiwa's head and neither does any of us. But when engaging in conversation on the matter, I find it fairer to err on the side that doesn't harness one man's very serious mental disorder he *may* have to put down another man.

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6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

why on earth would Takanohana need to invent a mental malady for Takanoiwa at this juncture? 

May I suggest something simpler?

Takanohana probably wants to keep Takanoiwa close to him under his supervision in the heya, rather than letting him get into trouble when he is away on jungyo?

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PTSD for having your entire view of the world upset -- first by the asault and original injury, next by your own Oyakata finding out and dealing with it in the way that he has... next by being sequestered for so long and seeing your idea of your future desintegrate...

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22 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

It's heartening to know that your oft-demonstrated knowledge of sumo is matched by your medical expertise.

If a rikishi can attend a basho and performs better than average, then he is supposed to be able to attend an exhibition? Isn't it common sense? If he really has some join problem, is it a sound reason for not attending an exhibition? Why they have to add the "PTSD" ?

 

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Speculation. Perhaps, Takanohana wants to protect Takanoiwa from the Mongolians. Prevent Hakuho from teaching him a "lesson".

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4 hours ago, Dapeng said:

If a rikishi can attend a basho and performs better than average, then he is supposed to be able to attend an exhibition?

 

He performed better than average (8-7) at rank J12w. He was in Makuuchi for almost 2 years before he was injured. I would say he under-performed from what he's usually capable of.

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10 hours ago, rhyen said:

May I suggest something simpler?

Takanohana probably wants to keep Takanoiwa close to him under his supervision in the heya, rather than letting him get into trouble when he is away on jungyo?

Except for the fact that when the kyujo was announced, Takanohana was still supposed to be at the jungyo, leaving Takanoiwa without supervision until it was decided that Takanohana should stay at home.

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Except for the fact that when the kyujo was announced, Takanohana was still supposed to be at the jungyo, leaving Takanoiwa without supervision until it was decided that Takanohana should stay at home.

Maybe.

Besides, Takanohana didn’t even expected to be mandated to go on jungyo with the shimpan until after the GM and Rijikai meeting. So keeping Takanoiwa at home was probably preplanned until the shimpan duties threw a spanner into the cogs.

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On 2/28/2018 at 14:54, Akinomaki said:

Harumafuji seems to have been officially appointed to coach at Isegahama-beya, he's at the Osaka location of the heya now.

And now with the rengo-geiko at Isegahama-beya, Harumafuji's name plate hangs again there on the wall - under the coach group (which I haven't seen yet in these traditional heya displays), below heya-attached toshiyori (with the "yokozuna" plate right next). He himself wasn't there that day http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2018/05/08/kiji/20180507s00005000351000c.html

20180507-OHT1I50157-L.jpg

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On 2/3/2018 at 02:28, Akinomaki said:

The 4 externals chosen by the riji-cho: http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20180201/sum18020119240007-n1.html

The head of this "recurrence prevention measures investigation committee" will be former attorney general Keiichi Tadaki 但木敬一

- the former coach of the Japanese softball team Taeko Utsugi https://www.google.com/search?q=宇津木妙子

b_10949846.jpgo

- vice chairman of the Japan judo federation Chikaishi 近石康宏, in the police he also was responsible for measures against organized crime https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/関東管区警察局#歴代局長

prm1506010001-n1.jpgo

- kendo hanshi 8th dan Yuji Nakata 中田琇士

Plus 7 oyakata, with crisis manager Kagamiyama at the top. They are meant to give an intermediate report in April/May and the final one end of October.

Sumo panel to expand violence inquiry

An independent panel discussing measures to prevent violence among sumo wrestlers says it plans to widen its probe to include retired wrestlers who have appeared during the past 10 years.

The Japan Sumo Association in February asked the panel to look into the underlying violence among wrestlers and propose preventive measures. This came in response to a violent assault on a lower-ranked wrestler by then yokozuna grand champion Harumafuji in October of last year. The Mongolian wrestler retired to take responsibility for his actions.

The panel has met 7 times and inspected training procedures at stables as well as the association's promotional tours. It says its members interviewed more than 900 members of the association, including wrestlers.

On Tuesday, the panel's head and former prosecutor general Keiichi Tadaki indicated to reporters that its interim results show that he could not rule out the existence of more violent incidents. He said the findings will be made public in September after a further analysis of the results.

Tadaki also said the panel plans to conduct an investigation into past violence. About 1,000 former wrestlers and other members of the association who have left the organization over the past 10 years will be surveyed through a questionnaire.

The plan came in response to the death of a wrestler in a violent assault in 2007.

Tadaki said the panel will examine why violent incidents have recurred despite efforts that began more than 10 years ago to rid the sumo world of violence.

The panel is expected to come up with its final report by October.

The public affairs chief and stable master Shibatayama said the sumo association has been trying to raise members' awareness through lectures. He added that it is important that the proposals from the panel are used to combat violence.

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20180508_32/

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As a result of the violence scandal(s), for Natsu a new part was added to the "rikishi guidelines", which hang in every heya, to get recited by all every day after keiko (if the heya has decided to do so - from what's shown on TV, one tends to believe they all do it, but now it's ain't necessarily so): "4. We get rid of violence and bear in mind to have self-awareness in our actions."

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2018/05/08/kiji/20180508s00005000254000c.html

20180508s00005000256000p_view.jpg

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On 5/9/2018 at 05:05, Otokonoyama said:

Tadaki said the panel will examine why violent incidents have recurred despite efforts that began more than 10 years ago to rid the sumo world of violence.

Because the people in charge know nothing but the way they were trained (with violence), and the people they have trained only know what they were trained to do (violence)?

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