Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[Barutokai 65]

50 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Only because Futahaguro retired at 24.

OK at the same age Takakeisho only had 4jy... and 2 yusho (2020.11). While only 6 years pro.

Takakeisho is a working-horse. Not that perfect but he gets that job done.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Barutokai

[RabidJohn 1,858]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Only because Futahaguro retired at 24.

No, let's not rewrite history.

His intai papers were handed in by his boss and accepted by the NSK without him having any say in the matter. That's kicked out in anyone's book.

 

[Asashosakari 19,688]

Between here and Reddit I'm honestly getting a bit weirded out by how downright obsessive some of the people who don't want to see Takakeisho as yokozuna are starting to sound.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Asashosakari

[Bunbukuchagama 776]

40 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

No, let's not rewrite history.

His intai papers were handed in by his boss and accepted by the NSK without him having any say in the matter. That's kicked out in anyone's book.

 

I wasn't denying it. I just mentioned that his career was short.

And we are not here to dispute his lack of hinkaku.

[Bunbukuchagama 776]

6 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Between here and Reddit I'm honestly getting a bit weirded out by how downright obsessive some of the people who don't want to see Takakeisho as yokozuna are starting to sound.

Is your diagnosis ready, doctor? What do you prescribe? 

I thought we could discuss sumo-related things without resorting to ad hominem.

[Asashosakari 19,688]

Just now, Bunbukuchagama said:

Is your diagnosis ready, doctor? What do you prescribe? 

I thought we could discuss sumo-related things without resorting to ad hominem.

You're happy to go ad hominem at Takakeisho's expense all the time, why should you be off-limits?

[Bunbukuchagama 776]

Just now, Asashosakari said:

You're happy to go ad hominem at Takakeisho's expense all the time, why should you be off-limits?

Takakeisho is not a forum member, I hope you understand the difference.

And we can like or dislike public figures as we please.

[Asashosakari 19,688]

1 minute ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Takakeisho is not a forum member, I hope you understand the difference.

And we can like or dislike public figures as we please.

And I'm just going to put you on ignore now, which I've been close to doing too many times in your short time on the forum already.

[Fashiritētā 184]

3 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

And I'm just going to put you on ignore now, which I've been close to doing too many times in your short time on the forum already.

Giving that a like, as i am out of reacts.

[Sumo Spiffy 582]

We can have our guesses about what an 11-4 yusho would do, but c'mon—given the matchups that can still be made, what are the actual chances Kiri, Koto, Atami, and Nephew all drop to four losses? 

And 11-win yushos are so rare that seeing two in a row, regardless of who takes it, would enter completely new territory. For all we know, it would result in a six-man playoff, and winning through that would be what makes the YDC accept Keisho as a yokozuna.

[Akinomaki 40,822]

With 2 ozeki at 2 and 3 losses (and 5 more people in front of him), I think we don't have to spend much thought on the one at 4 losses - and if we get another 11-4 play-off, he most likely won't be in it.

[Katooshu 3,335]

Well, even if Taka were to get an 11-4 Y, that's still twice in a row as ozeki that he was the top rikishi.........and he'll have won half the yusho this year. 

But ya, 11-4Y isn't going to happen anyway.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Katooshu

[Reonito 1,531]

7 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

You'd have to go back to 1951 to find a promotion with 22 wins. Even 25 hasn't happened since pre-Futahaguro. Fortunately, the likelihood of this ugly scenario is fading by the day.

[Barutokai 65]

6 minutes ago, Reonito said:

You'd have to go back to 1951 to find a promotion with 22 wins. Even 25 hasn't happened since pre-Futahaguro. Fortunately, the likelihood of this ugly scenario is fading by the day.

So Futahaguro, or rather his case,  is kind of a great barrier of Ozeki. As in preventing Konishiki, Kaio, Takakeisho... probably more from becoming a Yokozuna. People with more hinkaku than F. himself.

[Octofuji 369]

8 hours ago, dingo said:

Takarafuji tried to outmuscle Tsurugishou so which made it obvious  he didn't see Tsurugishou's bout against Hokuseiho yesterday. That attempt didn't end well and now Takarafuji has to really make his remaining bouts count.

It's been a long time since I've seen Takarafuji put so much effort in at the edge. Sadly I think he can see the writing on the wall. Myogiryu tomorrow is not an easy match for him either.

[Benevolance 2,511]

4 hours ago, Leoben said:

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't someone on the judging committee say they wanted a strong result to consider promotion? If that's the case, it should rule out 11-4 as a promotable score. 

Someone on the committee will always declare something like this. Eventually we all learn that it doesn't matter. It's a sort of back-handed encouragement. If Takakeisho ever gets back-to-back yusho, he will get promoted. But sadly he won't be getting that this tournament. 

[Asojima 2,874]

Takarafuji is 36 yoa.  His goal is to remain an uninjured sekitori until his kabu becomes available. He is on cruise control.

[Reonito 1,531]

1 minute ago, Asojima said:

Takarafuji is 36 yoa.  His goal is to remain an uninjured sekitori until his kabu becomes available. He is on cruise control.

He's got that Makuuchi consecutive bout streak going...

[Yamanashi 3,909]

Apropos of nothing, but doesn't Kitaharima 1) have striking features; 2) look like he could be ex-Homasho's younger brother?

[Rocks 1,809]

12 hours ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

In what world is he better than Terunofuji?

How many Yusho has each won this year? How many basho have they competed in? How double digit wins? 

I never said he was belter any way. I said he upheld the rank better. For all intents and purposes Takakeisho has been this de facto Yokozuna in competition this year.

[Bunbukuchagama 776]

Just now, Rocks said:

For all intents and purposes Takakeisho has been this de facto Yokozuna in competition this year.

He upheld the rank he doesn't have? 

In this case, Kirishima, Hoshoryu, and Daieisho are the best Yokozunas of the year.

[Seiyashi 4,108]

To be clear, Takakeishō hasn't done exceedingly well in terms of results, but for someone struggling with the injuries that he has he's really done his best to uphold his rank. Whether that should merit a light pass on his promotion bid is another matter altogether.

[Rocks 1,809]

1 minute ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

He upheld the rank he doesn't have? 

In this case, Kirishima, Hoshoryu, and Daieisho are the best Yokozunas of the year.

He is the top ranked and longest serving at Ozeki actually showing up in most of the basho. In effect, the Yokozuna, at least for the Kyokai's purposes. 

He's also won as many Yusho as the other 3 combined. If he won here, as stated in the hypothetical, he would have more than those 3 and half the Yusho for the year. If that isn't Yokozuna level sumo I don't know what the heck is. 

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

27 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

To be clear, Takakeishō hasn't done exceedingly well in terms of results, but for someone struggling with the injuries that he has he's really done his best to uphold his rank. Whether that should merit a light pass on his promotion bid is another matter altogether.

An Ozeki struggling perpetually with injuries and a light pass on his promotion...sounds like the perfect formula for yet another liberally kyujo-ing Yokozuna--the last thing sumo needs right now. 

That said, I'm in the camp that if he somehow rallies and earns consecutive yusho this basho, whatever his record, Takakeisho will have earned his promotion.

[hakutorizakura 643]

24 minutes ago, Rocks said:

He is the top ranked and longest serving at Ozeki actually showing up in most of the basho. In effect, the Yokozuna, at least for the Kyokai's purposes. 

He's also won as many Yusho as the other 3 combined. If he won here, as stated in the hypothetical, he would have more than those 3 and half the Yusho for the year. If that isn't Yokozuna level sumo I don't know what the heck is. 

T can be considered a yokozuna by relative numbers. He's top of the pack. But the kyokai wants absolute numbers AND domination (i.e. everyone looks up on him and shudders in fear). As much as I like him, sadly the latter is super hard since he's a hamster...