Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[Gurowake 3,874]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

by beating Asanoyama today, he pulled even with him in most wins of the year overall, not just makuuchi.

Gonoyama is also tied with Asanoyama and the rest at 57 as of today in that statistic.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=6&n_basho=6&sum_wins=39&sum_range=6&show_sum=on&form1_year=2023&form1_month=1&sort_by=sum_wins

Edited November 22, 2023 by Gurowake

[Asashosakari 18,660]

6 hours ago, Reonito said:

It seems like he just skipped that one day for some reason...

Two days, I think (7 and 8).

[dingo 1,117]

5 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Gonoyama is also tied with Asanoyama and the rest at 57 as of today in that statistic.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=6&n_basho=6&sum_wins=39&sum_range=6&show_sum=on&form1_year=2023&form1_month=1&sort_by=sum_wins

If not for the unfortunate injury, Asanoyama would be certain to be on top. 

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

Water break! And it's not even Hokuseiho...

[Asashosakari 18,660]

Atamifuji vs Hoshoryu on Day 12, they're taking him seriously.

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

48 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

they're taking him seriously

...but not IYM. 

[Jakusotsu 5,739]

11 hours ago, dingo said:

Like the attacking Kakuryu or the pulling Kakuryu? 

The fugitive Kakuryu is already manifested in Tohakuryu.

[Koorifuu 858]

1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Atamifuji vs Hoshoryu on Day 12, they're taking him seriously.

Fool me once...

52 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

The fugitive Kakuryu is already manifested in Tohakuryu.

Tohakuryu should still take hinkaku notes from fugitive Kakuryu, though...

‐--------

Is it just me or the sekitori have been painting the dohyo red much more often than usual?

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

To Takakeisho's Yokozuna run. 

[Hankegami 412]

Joyful Day 11 to everybody. The arasoi is now getting a bit thinner on the top, but I will leave a breakdown to @Seiyashi's most excellent thread. Despite that, I cannot help but to talk mostly about the Yusho contenders anyway. With today, the front-runner position is down to just three 9-2 guys: "work as usual" Kirishima, an outstanding Kotonowaka, and a more and more solid Atamifuji. Their respective ranks could suggest that only the first two will end up being main contenders, while Atamin will be devoured like Ichiyamamoto today. But never say never.

Let's start with Atamifuji. Teru's Mini-Me has clearly leveled up his oshi repertoire in the last two days. Yesterday he ran through an always dangerous Shonannoumi, and today kicked revelation Churanoumi out of the runner-up queue. I like that. I think that his Plan A remains getting a left inside grip and go for a straightforward yorikiri. Until a few days ago, whether this strategy failed Atamin backed and went to dance on the tawara looking for a hatakikomi, which is really dangerous. Muscling your opponent out is safer. Anyway, Atamifuji's easy schedule ends up with tomorrow, since he's skyroketed up to the musubi no ichiban against Hoshoryu. The latter today showed once again that Asanoyama cannot defeat him on the belt, and at a same time posted a claim for the Yusho race as a hungry 8-3 runner-up candidate. Atamifuji vs. Hoshoryu has no precedents to speak of. The Ozeki is the natural favorite, but Atamifuji is four years younger than him, very agile on the tawara despite his size, and 39 kg heavier (181 kg vs. 140 kg according to sumo.or.jp). His chances to pull an upset are far from zero.

Kotonowaka did a surprisingly short work of Takakeisho today, handling him a Kirishima-ish okuridashi. This basho is really uncomfortable At this point I must admit that Four Tits is showing a solid, straightforward sumo tilted with Ozeki shades. Baby Face now sits at 9-2 as is still technically in line for a standard 33 to 3 candidacy to Ozeki (11-9-13). However, with this level of sumo I wouldn't surprised if he were handed the rank just with a 32 scoreline (11-9-12). He mustn't lose more than one bout in the last four days though. And a first bump might occur already tomorrow (well, we're entering the upper san'yaku round robin finally, so no surprise about that). His adversary for tomorrow is Ozeki Kirishima (II), our much beloved Kirby. Today he elegantly dispatched an underwhelming Wakamotoharu out with classic yorikiri, just a day's work. The bad news for Baby Face is that Kotonowaka vs. Kirishima stands at 3-9 for the Ozeki (here). The last eight F2F are even 1-7, and Kotonowaka last won in Haru 2023. If precedents are respected (Hoshoryu beats Atamifuji, and Kirishima beats Kotonowaka), tomorrow we could have a sole 10-2 leader Kirishima followed by a 9-3 bunch of runner-ups. Anyway, the road to a yusho is filled with upsets, so if Baby Face wants the Cup he must win against the people who have his number first. He already put Hoshoryu and Takakeisho over him, and Kirishima comes next.

On the other side of the moon, Ichiyamamoto dropped one against a back-cupped Daieisho and joins the 8-3 club. Considering that Daieisho himself is clearly underpreforming likely because of his back, I'd say that's indicative of the level that Itchy can reach this basho. Tomorrow he will be "ranked down" against an extremely dangerous Nishikigi and, if the Committee is merciful will be sent back among the lower Makuuchi to rack a couple more wins instead that being beaten down to an 8-7 scoreline by the joy. Like happened last time that he went 8-2.

Last line, who wasn't baffled by the outcome of Abi vs. Shodai? The Lord of Chaos was just strangled out by a 3-7 endangered Abi like a featherweight. I am not much into yaocho discussions but, were there another investigation into it, I'd like to get a look to Shodai's bank movements  (I'm joking, of course)

[Seiyashi 4,068]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

To Takakeisho's Yokozuna run. 

I'll drink to that. 

[dingo 1,117]

It's the day of the genki oldtimers as Sadanoumi, Tamawashi, Myogiryuu et al got nice wins against younger opponents. Except for poor Takarafuji who really huffed and puffed but chose the wrong approach. 

Wakatakakage has seemingly regained some confidence and got his makushita kachikoshi today. I haven't looked at the exact standings, but an immediate repromotion to Juryo seems very unlikely due to his rank. However, he's looking much better than at the beginning of the basho so I hope we'll see him in makuuchi again soon!

Chiyoshoma has a (admittedly small) chance at a juryo yusho! Now let that sink in.. 

Takarafuji tried to outmuscle Tsurugishou so which made it obvious  he didn't see Tsurugishou's bout against Hokuseiho yesterday. That attempt didn't end well and now Takarafuji has to really make his remaining bouts count.

Endo vs Touhakuryuu ended up really comical as I tried to guess what is the latter trying to achieve by repeatedly lightly patting the back of Endo's neck. Endo meanwhile wasn't distracted and escorted Touhakuryuu out after a small chase around the dohyo. 

Once Ichiyamamoto was lifted out of his comfort zone in makujiri to face Daieisho, the difference in speed and power became quite apparent. Mini-Abi has to up his game if he wants to stand a chance the next time. 

Aaand there goes the rope running away from Takakeisho as fast as his bout today. On the other hand, if Kotonowaka can keep this sumo up he can already secretly start practicing writing the kanji for Kotozakura. He still has to face a real Kirishima test tomorrow, should be a mouthwatering bout! 

[Jakusotsu 5,739]

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

[Rocks 1,804]

7 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

Interesting. Normally I would say not but given:

2 Yusho in a row
Competing in most of the basho.
Only rikishi in the past year and a half to reliably post double digit wins when finishing a basho
No other Ozeki level or near rikishi looks likely to win 2 yusho in a row any time soon.
Terunofuji is almost certainly done.

I say yes they still would. If they had promoted him after January and had the same record the rest of the year, while no one would call him a great Yokozuna, no one could argue he didn't hold up the rank. Certainly better than Terunofuji. 

[Hankegami 412]

6 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

There has been a lot of discussion about that, isn't it? I personally think that they will find a way to ask for a third strong (much stronger) performance if he really posts a 11-4Y to 11-4Y case. I mean, there wouldn't be enough for an Ozeki promotion (0-11-11 ) and would be honestly ridiculous for a Yok pass. They denied him at least two yusho to jun-yusho candidacies with a better overall score, just to promote him with a 22/30 back-to-back? Cringe-worthy, IMHO. The main issue is how binding is the YDC "back-to-back yusho" rule. Most importantly, the YDC is certainly aware that a promotion with 22/30 could backfire in a Futahaguro manner (with all respect to Takakeisho). It's up to them to decide whether they want to amend rules before or after having their face full blown up.

Anyway, we have three strong contenders at 9-2 with four days to go, and another bunch at 8-3. Even by hypothesizing that none of the leaders will go 3-1 (and therefore setting a 12-3 yusho line), a 11-4 playoff would likely involve several wrestlers this time around. And we all know how much stamina Takakeisho does have. In short, chances for him to yusho are rather slim in my view, so no problem.

[dingo 1,117]

20 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

That's the million dollar question. A new yokozuna is needed soon, but is Takakeisho the yokozuna they're looking for? Could go either way, or they could sort of extend his tsuna run by asking to get a good result, like at least jun yusho, at Hatsu basho.

[Fashiritētā 154]

19 minutes ago, dingo said:

That's the million dollar question. A new yokozuna is needed soon, but is Takakeisho the yokozuna they're looking for? Could go either way, or they could sort of extend his tsuna run by asking to get a good result, like at least jun yusho, at Hatsu basho.

Kirishima can start his Tsuna run this Basho and Win at Hatsu , possibly giving us a new Yokozuna for March.

Or just wishful thinking.

[Barutokai 62]

1 hour ago, Hankegami said:

...could backfire in a Futahaguro manner...

Never. While F. had 7 JY, Takakeisho would have 5 Y, 8 JY.

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

Not again, please.

[Yamanashi 3,683]

1 hour ago, Barutokai said:

Never. While F. had 7 JY, Takakeisho would have 5 Y, 8 JY.

Futahaguro career: 348-184-24, 7 Jun-Yusho

Takakeisho so far: 424-229/81, 4 Yusho, 8 Jun-Yusho

Takakeisho is already a better Yokozuna than Futahaguro.

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

2 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Takakeisho is already a better Yokozuna than Futahaguro.

Only because Futahaguro retired at 24.

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

3 hours ago, Rocks said:

I say yes they still would. If they had promoted him after January and had the same record the rest of the year, while no one would call him a great Yokozuna, no one could argue he didn't hold up the rank. Certainly better than Terunofuji. 

In what world is he better than Terunofuji?

[Bunbukuchagama 675]

3 hours ago, dingo said:

That's the million dollar question. A new yokozuna is needed soon, but is Takakeisho the yokozuna they're looking for? Could go either way, or they could sort of extend his tsuna run by asking to get a good result, like at least jun yusho, at Hatsu basho.

If he somehow got the rope, everyone would regret it instantly (the moment of his first dohyo-iri).

[Leoben 119]

3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Let's suppose Takakeisho miraculously happens to get a 11-4 yusho, they won't possibly deny him the rope, would they?

Maybe I'm misremembering, but didn't someone on the judging committee say they wanted a strong result to consider promotion? If that's the case, it should rule out 11-4 as a promotable score. 

[dingo 1,117]

I think you could see it in Takakeisho's face after the loss today that he also thinks the train has left.