Kyushu 2023 discussion (results)

[Akinomaki 39,529]

Kyushu basho PR starts early this year, with a controversial rikishi belly-touch meet today in Fukuoka - the social media had even talk of that being sexual harassment of the rikishi. o o o

vid

o o

Touch the belly of popular rikishi: Shodai, Sadanoumi, Hiradoumi (the 3 from Kyushu), Ura, Ichiyamamoto - and singing, like at the usual zenyasai before the basho:

oyakata channel: before the event, interviews

Edited November 11, 2023 by Akinomaki

[RabidJohn 1,630]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Kyushu basho PR starts early this year, with a controversial rikishi belly-touch meet today in Fukuoka - the social media had even talk of that being sexual harassment of the rikishi. 

Controversial? Really?

Watching the SJWs of social media bashing their collective head against the brick wall of ozumo culture could be interesting, but I really can't be bothered.

[Sumo Spiffy 522]

The third link has a fair question being asked: "If you touch the bare skin, does that mean that the participating wrestlers have consented?" And the response is, "I don't touch the bare skin."

Which... OK, but that's not really the point of the question, you know? Calling this sexual harassment just because the event exists might be jumping to conclusions, but if these guys aren't comfortable with it, then either they should only involve wrestlers who are cool with it or it shouldn't be a thing. And it would be nice to know if someone, somewhere, has actually responded to the question of consent.

[RabidJohn 1,630]

9 hours ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Calling this sexual harassment just because the event exists might be jumping to conclusions, but if these guys aren't comfortable with it, then either they should only involve wrestlers who are cool with it or it shouldn't be a thing. And it would be nice to know if someone, somewhere, has actually responded to the question of consent.

Look at the picture of the father holding up his infant child to touch Ura's belly. Anyone who sees sexual harassment there has something wrong with them.

As to consent, rikishi have signed up for an occupation that sees them performing almost naked in public, with a lot of bodily contact.
There's also a ton of PR: jungyo, bean throwing, mochi pounding, reporting results to mayors/high schools, sumo with kids, etc. 
This looks like one of the cushier numbers to me.

[dingo 1,117]

10 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

cushier

Perfect choice of words for the belly-touching event 

[Sumo Spiffy 522]

5 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Look at the picture of the father holding up his infant child to touch Ura's belly. Anyone who sees sexual harassment there has something wrong with them.

As to consent, rikishi have signed up for an occupation that sees them performing almost naked in public, with a lot of bodily contact.
There's also a ton of PR: jungyo, bean throwing, mochi pounding, reporting results to mayors/high schools, sumo with kids, etc. 
This looks like one of the cushier numbers to me.

Re: point 1: That's taking one specific image and applying it to a broad question being asked about the whole event. Put another way, that's looking for a reason to dismiss the question/accusation. It's irrelevant.

As for the rest, yes, rikishi are part of a contact sport that involves very little being worn during competition. But something similar could be said about mixed martial artists, and the exact same question of consent would be applicable if Dana White set up an event where people could poke a fighter's muscles through a t-shirt.

To be clear, I don't think there's anything wrong with this type of event as long as it involves wrestlers who enjoy it/have fun with it/don't mind it. However, given some of the treatment and expectations placed on these guys, it's seems fair to ask if they had much choice in participating. Sexual harassment specifically may not be the right thing to be concerned about, but consent still matters when it comes to being touched by strangers.

Edited June 19, 2023 by Sumo Spiffy

[rokudenashi 290]

Does it have something to do with the east Asian tradition of rubbing a buddha's belly for good luck? Quite different in that it's an animate human being in this case rather than a statue, of course...

I get the sense that the objecting views come from applying a western perspective to something viewed as innocuous and uncontroversial in Japanese culture.

Edited June 19, 2023 by rokudenashi

[Sumo Spiffy 522]

26 minutes ago, rokudenashi said:

Does it have something to do with the east Asian tradition of rubbing a buddha's belly for good luck? Quite different in that it's an animate human being in this case rather than a statue, of course...

I get the sense that the objecting views come from applying a western perspective to something viewed as innocuous and uncontroversial in Japanese culture.

Possibly, although I got the impression that the people questioning consent were doing so from within the culture, if it was being noticed at all. And if the wrestlers view it as innocuous, then that's basically being chill with it, so that's fine. But something can be considered broadly uncontroversial because it disregards even the possibility that the people involved don't like it, so it doesn't hurt to ask the question.

BTW, I'm not looking for something to get mad about. People like that drive me insane, because they make those of us who genuinely want to make sure everything is cool look like we're also trying to find reasons to complain. But I'm not gonna let my frustration with those people keep me from pointing out the possibility of a problem when I think asking the question is warranted.

[Ryoshishokunin 259]

49 minutes ago, rokudenashi said:

Does it have something to do with the east Asian tradition of rubbing a buddha's belly for good luck? Quite different in that it's an animate human being in this case rather than a statue, of course...

Yes, very much so.  As a big guy with a belly (not sumo-quality), it happened to me a few times a year in japan.  Most asked, but occasionally people would just run up and touch me.  

This by the way, is not cool, and yes it is harassment.  

[Seiyashi 4,068]

3 minutes ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

Yes, very much so.  As a big guy with a belly (not sumo-quality), it happened to me a few times a year in japan.  Most asked, but occasionally people would just run up and touch me.  

This by the way, is not cool, and yes it is harassment.  

Sorry to ask, but kids, or adults?

[RabidJohn 1,630]

@Sumo Spiffy I'm not looking for an argument either. I just find the notion of any sexual harassment here ridiculous, notwithstanding the fact that the occasional gay chubby-chaser might get a thrill out of it.

I guess we're both looking at this from a western perspective, but I can't help feeling that becoming a rikishi in a culture where touching/rubbing fat men's bellies is a widespread custom would be regarded as implied consent by an employment tribunal.

For the record, I've been entranced by the perceived peculiarity of the Japanese since I was a teenager. I don't feel concern here, only enjoyment of another oddity.

[Ryoshishokunin 259]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

Sorry to ask, but kids, or adults?

Mostly women or pre-teen kids.  

[rhyen 1,799]

I do recall Oshiogawa oyakata complaining once on a talk show (Junk Sports?) about spectators randomly slapping rikishi shoulders, chest and back at the Jungyos. Can we assume that the younger rikishi are well versed in the morality debates on these events?

[Seiyashi 4,068]

31 minutes ago, rhyen said:

I do recall Oshiogawa oyakata complaining once on a talk show (Junk Sports?) about spectators randomly slapping rikishi shoulders, chest and back at the Jungyos. Can we assume that the younger rikishi are well versed in the morality debates on these events?

I do seem to recall that pre-COVID, at some of the smaller venues (EDION, perhaps?), it was also not uncommon for supporters/well-wishers to do that as they lined the route to the shitakubeya. But of course the context is slightly different.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,244]

You guys, you've been had by click bait journalism. Yeah a couple people on twitter or whatever equated it with sexual harassment and then the internet news went crazy about it.

But the internet news really seemed to cover up why people were a little negative about the event. It wasn't really about sexual harassment.

Some twitter polls were run, and reading through the comments it seems like most people were dissatisfied that the NSK was treating the rikishi like off brand idols at a meet N greet. They brought up points like would athletes from other sports ever do a belly touch event? Could you imagine if the Japanese Women's World Cup winning team went around doing belly touch events (not only as women, but also as athlete-preeminent)? Rikishi are somewhat sacrosanct, something more than just an everyday athlete, so it seems like some people strongly felt like the rikishi were being debased here (42% according to one poll, just ~10% answered 'I want to touch').

Then a couple people stretched and connected it up to sexual harassment to drive their point home and of course the news picked only that part up and ran with it because it sounds stupid -> therefore drives engagement.

[Akinomaki 39,529]

The oyakata of the Kyushu team around Sakaigawa on the 7th made the traditional call to the governor. Now that Corona is recognized as a simple illness, after 4 years it will be a Kyushu basho again where cheering and drinking at the seat is allowed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zP0CMMrFceE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bSMCRreoM

vid

o o o o

no contest for the poster this time - again more than one

[Akinomaki 39,529]

Ticket sales start tomorrow, new are a few 4 person masu B seats each day with 4 350ml cans of Orion beer (from Okinawa) attached, persons who apply for it have to be at least 20y old https://hochi.news/articles/20230915-OHT1T51240.html?page=1

The basho actually had a poster contest again in June and those selected are in use now.

[Akinomaki 39,529]

The gomen-fuda is in place in Fukuoka, ticket sales are better than usual for Kyushu, at present day 15 sold out, days 7 and 14 only a few left sumo.pia.jp/vacant/va11.jsp

The Kyushu team: Shiranui, deputy chief Shiratama, chief Sakaigawa, Mihogaseki, Onogawa

o o

(some of) this year's posters

[Leoben 119]

I'm going to be in Japan in November and I got tickets 

[hakutorizakura 581]

That poster with a giant Terunofuji is cool, like in some ancient pictures where the most important person is depicted much bigger than the other people.

[dingo 1,117]

16 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

That poster with a giant Terunofuji is cool, like in some ancient pictures where the most important person is depicted much bigger than the other people.

That poster would probably be blurred out and automatically censored by some overeager NSFW algorithms. 

[Yamanashi 3,683]

On 09/10/2023 at 10:43, hakutorizakura said:

That poster with a giant Terunofuji is cool, like in some ancient pictures where the most important person is depicted much bigger than the other people.

For example, the battle records on Egyptian temples; this would lead to the usual misinterpretation:  Pharaoh Teru-no-fu-ji of Mongolia and his vassals defeat the fat men of Japan.

[nagora 88]

On 19/06/2023 at 10:53, RabidJohn said:

Look at the picture of the father holding up his infant child to touch Ura's belly. Anyone who sees sexual harassment there has something wrong with them.

There's plenty of people who have something wrong with them. Giving them permission to express that wrongness to everyone in the world appears to be the entire purpose of the Internet.

[Akinomaki 39,529]

On the 13th (a day of the horse) after 4 years there was again a Gomen-iwai in Kyushu at the Fukuoka kokusai center o :

about one month before a basho the NSK invites the chaya and others to a meeting where also the schedule is announced, at a day of the bird or the horse - also days have zodiac signs, repeating every 12 days - both are auspicious for sumo: tori (bird) for torikomu/-i, horse to spring up (ticket sales to skyrocket) https://kotobank.jp/word/御免祝い-176936

[Akinomaki 39,529]

The 2 top ozeki with Kyushu chief Sakaigawa met with the deputy governor of Fukuoka on the 31st to promise to gambarize for a successful basho

o vid

The yokozuna not there indicates he will have nothing to do with that

 

another nice poster

the last 2 days are sold out, and chair seats for all weekends https://sumo.pia.jp/vacant/va11.jsp

Edited November 4, 2023 by Akinomaki