Amamaniac

Are Abi's days numbered?

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Posted (edited)

The Kyokai are saying his intai papers are "in custody",  meaning he better watch it and any small discretion will automatically result in retirement. He is to present a signed oath accepting this. They are demanding he goes back to living at the heya (I wonder how that will work out, since he's married..) and be under Shikoroyama's close scrutiny. He is also not to leave the heya premises unless it's an emergency. The Oyakata gets a 20% salary reduction for 6 months. Gokushindou (Nishikido-beya) is the Makushita rikishi who went out with Abi, and he gets a two-basho suspension and his Oyakata gets a "kenseki-liabilty" judgement.

Edited by Kintamayama
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9 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The Kyokai are saying his intai papers are "in custody",  meaning he better watch it and any small discretion will automatically result in retirement. He is to present a signed oath accepting this. They are demanding he goes back to living at the heya (I wonder how that will work out, since he's married..) and be under Shikoroyama's close scrutiny. He is also not to leave the heya premise unless it's an emergency. The Oyakata gets a 20% salary reduction for 6 months.

Interesting and lucky. From the number of times he has been out the wife probably has seen much of him anyway.

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Posted (edited)

Half a year with half the salary (and none of the appearance bonus, etc), followed by probably at least another 3-4 basho getting back to sekitori - and not being permitted to live with his wife...

Wouldn't surprise me if his missus decides, "No, you're getting a proper job!"

Nor would it surprise me if Abi makes the decision before she does.

Does the concept of constructive dismissal exist in Japan. If it does, all Abi needs is a medical 'expert' to testify that the blows to the head he's taken during his career have affected his judgement...

EDIT: If this comes across as me being pro-Abi, it's not meant to. But I do believe the punishment is way harsher than Taganoura's - and he did exactly the same thing; i.e. went out to a hostess bar and lied about it.

Edited by RabidJohn
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Incidentally, Tagonoura Oyakata who was also caught out and about and dead drunk, gets the very light "kenseki (liability)" punishment, which has no real bite.

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

The Kyokai are saying his intai papers are "in custody",  meaning he better watch it and any small discretion will automatically result in retirement. He is to present a signed oath accepting this. They are demanding he goes back to living at the heya (I wonder how that will work out, since he's married..) and be under Shikoroyama's close scrutiny. He is also not to leave the heya premises unless it's an emergency. The Oyakata gets a 20% salary reduction for 6 months. Gokushindou (Nishikido-beya) is the Makushita rikishi who went out with Abi, and he gets a two-basho suspension and his Oyakata gets a "kenseki-liabilty" judgement.

Thank you for the information, I've been trying to work out who the second rikishi was now I don't need to!

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 NSK has made a good decision.

As other have pointed, enduring a 3 Basho suspension with half the pay and no bonus is a test of Abi's commitment to Sumo.

If he decides to continue and manages to behave, I would root for him more than ever.

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Regarding his banzuke pathway for the upcoming year, would you say Chiyonokuni's troubled 2019 serves as a good yardstick? 3 basho out from M12, which is realistic for Abi in 2 months, resulted in a makushita 46 slot.

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16 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

Regarding his banzuke pathway for the upcoming year, would you say Chiyonokuni's troubled 2019 serves as a good yardstick? 3 basho out from M12, which is realistic for Abi in 2 months, resulted in a makushita 46 slot.

I think this is a very good yardstick indeed. But if we take uncertainty into consideration here we could go: 

Aki banzuke = [M11-M15]

November banzuke = [J6-J11]

Hatsu banzuke = [ms5-ms12]

Haru banzuke = [ms45-ms52]

 

A lot depends on Aki banzuke position, but I still have to do my GTB

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57 minutes ago, Stupidface said:

Thank you for the information, I've been trying to work out who the second rikishi was now I don't need to!

Gokushindo was actually the only rikishi who fit the "ex-sekitori, different heya, kyujo last basho, not Tomokaze" description that John Gunning gave earlier. 

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I’m glad the NSK have found a way to severely punish without driving rikishi out of the sport. Let’s hope they will apply the same to others in the future 

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The person I'm feeling most sorry for is Shikoroyama. If Abi isn't living in the stable, how was he supposed to know what his rikishi was doing in the evening? The pay cut for him seems rather harsh, no?

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8 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

If Abi isn't living in the stable, how was he supposed to know what his rikishi was doing in the evening?

And what do you think he should have done if he noticed the boy was gone? Run from bar to bar to drag him home?

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6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm pretty sure his oyakata does not want to hear from him anymore. He will retire regardless of the Kyokai's decision.

Abi has been on my radar (in a good way) since 2015, although that was largely based on how excited fans got every time he performed his shiko stomp.  Abi is definitely one of the more colourful figures in oozumo, and in recent times he has indeed developed something of a reputation (not in a good way).  Sometimes sports benefit from having characters like him in them.

Could the NSK's decision have been influenced by fan support (i.e., fans contacting them directly)?  Or does Hakkaku & Co. actually want to see him stay?

As Kintamayama suggests, Shikoroyama may not be inclined to let Abi set foot inside his stable.  But the kyokai seems to want him under close supervision.  

If that means having to stay locked up in his stable with an angry stable master and not be able to see his newly-wed wife, I am not sure Abi will be inclined to accept those conditions.  

Mind you, upon hearing that Abi was out at hostess bars while contravening NSK guidelines, I'm not sure how inclined his wife will be to see him ... ever again.  Perhaps, she would forgive that sort of behaviour, but how would she feel about an enforced separation?

 

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42 minutes ago, Jemuzu said:

I’m glad the NSK have found a way to severely punish without driving rikishi out of the sport. Let’s hope they will apply the same to others in the future 

I am thinking that if I were Abi, this would make me all the more determined to leave the sport ..... and I'm not at all sure that that is not precisely what the NSK intended it should do.

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5 hours ago, Gospodin said:

Yes, you need the file provided via a messenger service or mail. Or the original.  If they wantted to have that thoroughly resolved, I can‘t imagine they couldn‘t have obtained that. Also the content of a pic alone usually provides an incredible amount of information most people are not aware of.

Well, I'm not trying to say it's impossible, just that it's highly improbable. As I understand it, the Taganoura pic started circulating around social media and it might be impossible to determine who originally took the photo now. Even if you do, you have to be certain the transfer is done correctly and that the pic wasn't altered in some way even accidentally. You have to burden a random member of the public who's not on your payroll with cooperating with an investigation. It's just a big bag of worms for something that's only an internal matter and has no legal implications, so I don't blame them for not pursuing it.

Besides, it doesn't really matter, since if it wasn't during the basho he would certainly have said so. There's no way he'd not remember whether he violated curfew or not even if he blacked out. He'd remember having gone out the morning after, or he'd have a gap in his memory. So I think they probably assumed it did happen either during the basho or during the pre-basho quarantine when they gave his punishment.

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Posted (edited)

Shikoroyama, what's his take? "He is paying for his mistakes. I am deeply in debt to the Kyokai for showing such leniency towards Abi and must reciprocate in kind.. He should seriously reflect upon his deeds and understand the extent of bother he has created, otherwise it won't work .."

Shibatayama PR man: " We had a vote whether to accept the letter of resignation. We decided not to. He will now be under the watchful eyes of his Oyakata for six months and must seriously try to learn from this. He should feel the brunt of this punishment on his skin and become a serious person, is what I hope for."

Edited by Kintamayama
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39 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

I am thinking that if I were Abi, this would make me all the more determined to leave the sport ..... and I'm not at all sure that that is not precisely what the NSK intended it should do.

I'm with you on that opinion. Forcing him to live in the heya, separate from his wife, is pretty harsh.

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Posted (edited)
 7 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm pretty sure his oyakata does not want to hear from him anymore. He will retire regardless of the Kyokai's decision.

-As Kintamayama suggests, Shikoroyama may not be inclined to let Abi set foot inside his stable.  But the kyokai seems to want him under close supervision.-

I got that one wrong. For now. I still don't see how Shikoroyama is going to "swallow" this, unless there is a deep, special, father-son relationship between them that goes beyond what I imagined.  Abi is my third favorite (after Ikioi and Shoudai), so I'm happy, but I'm left with a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Edited by Kintamayama

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Mind you, upon hearing that Abi was out at hostess bars while contravening NSK guidelines, I'm not sure how inclined his wife will be to see him ... ever again.  Perhaps, she would forgive that sort of behaviour, but how would she feel about an enforced separation?

Hostess clubs aren't really that decadent, though. It's not like they're brothels. Someone sits next to you and pours you drinks and laughs at your stupid jokes. It's really not that uncommon for guys to go there with friends even if some of them have a wife or girlfriend. Obviously, I don't know his wife and, who knows, maybe she does want to divorce him over something like that, but it's not quite as big a taboo as it might seem.

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2 hours ago, Getayukata said:

I am thinking that if I were Abi, this would make me all the more determined to leave the sport ..... and I'm not at all sure that that is not precisely what the NSK intended it should do.

Yep. Three months confined to his heya is basically house arrest. Add in the separation from his wife, the loss of salary and that he will return unsalaried as well, it only exacerbates it. If I were trying to design a punishment that made someone hate sumo enough to quit, it would look something like that.

(Sorry, I posted this before but later realized I’d quoted the wrong thing and it made no sense.)

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2 hours ago, Getayukata said:

I am thinking that if I were Abi, this would make me all the more determined to leave the sport ..... and I'm not at all sure that that is not precisely what the NSK intended it should do.

But it puts the decision in Abi’s hands. He can pay the (high) price but potentially go back to having a successful, lucrative career, or quit if he’s truly done with it

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6 minutes ago, Jemuzu said:

But it puts the decision in Abi’s hands. He can pay the (high) price but potentially go back to having a successful, lucrative career, or quit if he’s truly done with it

I would guess that in his frustration he will commit another infraction withing the 8 months till he's allowed to compete again, and the NSK will promptly accept the intai papers he already handed in.

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