Nagoya 2019 Discussion (here be spoilers)

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

4 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'd love to see Tsurugisho take the yusho. He's the perennial Juryo mainstay flying completely under everyone's radar who took me a while to root for, but I do.

I have always liked him a lot. Good to see him in with a shout.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

That Tamawashi-Hakuho bout was hilarious. It was as if Tamawashi felt the first hit, thought, “I’m out of here!” and ran himself off the dohyo like an aging Hattorizakura.

[Jakusotsu 5,721]

14 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

That Tamawashi-Hakuho bout was hilarious. It was as if Tamawashi felt the first hit, thought, “I’m out of here!” and ran himself off the dohyo like an aging Hattorizakura.

Tamawashi is like gasoline these days: highly volatile

[nelimw 80]

Man, Endo! That man took everything Kotoshōgiku could muster and came away with a win. I was impressed. But I was even more impressed with the way Tomokaze straight threw Takagenji, Tomokaze is strong!

[Asetama3D 27]

On 15/07/2019 at 10:45, Rainoyama said:

I feel so bad for Takayasu but kudos to Shodai, three ozeki scalps this basho and doing his best sumo in ages.

Due to injuries of their respective owners, these scalps might not all be considered valuable enough to be showcased on the most prominent places of Shodai's Personal Ozeki Scalp Vitrine, though.

btw Shodai vs. Ozeki

2016: 4 wins out of 13 bouts => 31%
2017: 5 (incl. 2 fusen) of 12 => 42% (25% w/o fusen)
2018: 6 (incl. 1 fusen) of 13 => 46% (38% w/o fusen)
2019: 5 of 10 => 50%

Watch this trend!

[Koorifuu 858]

Juryo is just across the road for Tochiozan after 12 years. He has never been demoted in his life, if we exclude sanyaku.

It's not surprisingly. He's looked increasingly flat in the last few years (since an Ozeki run was a mirage in the horizon), but man, in this basho he's just not genki at all. It doesn't take much convincing to walk him out.

[Gurowake 3,872]

7 hours ago, Sakura said:

I was actually expecting Hakuho-Takayasu on Day 11.

Since Hakuho is the lower ranked Yokozuna he gets to have his Sanyaku bouts completed/scheduled before Kakuryu does. Assuming no withdrawals there would be 3 intra-sanyaku bouts on Day 15 (Kakuryu - Hakuho, Takayasu - Mitakeumi and Tamawashi-Abi), 2 on Day 14 (Kakuryu - Takayasu and Hakuho - Mitakeumi) and 1 on the remaining days. 

I would have assumed going by rank with 2 Y and 1 O that they would leave the three matches between them to be on the last three days.  I guess the one Ozeki doesn't rate that compared to 3 Yokozuna.

[Dwale 419]

2 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

Probably because Ichinojō isn’t the greatest rikishi of all time. lol

I was simply explaining why Hakuhō lost. It’s the first basho in his career where he’s sporting double elbow supporters– he’s at his most broken yet. His career might not last much longer. You could tell during the bout that Hakuhō tried using his right (IIRC) to break Ichinojō’s grip but just couldn’t muster enough strength to do so.

I’m not trying to take anything away from Ichinojō, I’m simply giving a technical explanation of the bout. I don’t know why you’re all attacking me as if I said some blasphemy against Ichinojō. If angry Ichinojō was his default state (healthy back? who knows), he’d easily be yokozuna, we all know he’s good when he wants to be.

Not a personal matter about you (or in anyone else in particular). Just a general tendency.

[Dwale 419]

That's how you beat Ichinojo. He should have one of those "this vehicle makes wide right turns" stickers on his butt because he's about as maneuverable as a tractor-trailer. Kakuryu used his mobility advantage to get in there and get it done. 

Takayasu ought to go kyujo now. None of that, "But I'm the only ozeki, so I need to..." No. Go fix your arm.

Terutsuyoshi KK and Enho in good position to join him. I love it.

I'm interested to see for how long Tomokaze can keep winning like this, but I think seeing how he handles his first MK will be more informative. Won't be this time, of course.

Hokutofuji looks sharp this basho. Daieisho does indeed have good balance. Tamawashi's balance rather questionable...maybe he has an ear infection or something. 

[Rainoyama 1,157]

2 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Juryo is just across the road for Tochiozan after 12 years. He has never been demoted in his life, if we exclude sanyaku.

It's not surprisingly. He's looked increasingly flat in the last few years (since an Ozeki run was a mirage in the horizon), but man, in this basho he's just not genki at all. It doesn't take much convincing to walk him out.

He is one of the best examples but it's just not just him, appart from the two Yokozuna and Myogiryu who is having an amazing basho, and I guess Sadanoumi who's doing ok all the other guys over 30 are not in good shape.

Tochinoshin is out injured again, Tamawashi 1-9, Aoiyama 4-6, Kotoshogiku 5-5, Takarafuji 3-7, Okinoumi and Shohozan both 4-6, Yoshikaze is out injured, Tochiozan 3-7 like you mentioned and injured Kaisei 1-9. In Juryo Tokushoryu is 4-6, Gagamaru 2-8, Ikioi 3-7 and Aminishiki retired. Injuries and time doing their thing.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Rainoyama

[Koorifuu 858]

38 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

He is one of the best examples but it's just not just him, appart from the two Yokozuna and Myogiryu who is having an amazing basho, and I guess Sadanoumi who's doing ok all the other guys over 30 are not in good shape.

Tochinoshin is out injured again, Tamawashi 1-9, Aoiyama 4-6, Kotoshogiku 5-5, Takarafuji 3-7, Okinoumi and Shohozan both 4-6, Yoshikaze is out injured, Tochiozan 3-7 like you mentioned and injured Kaisei 1-9. In Juryo Tokushoryu is 4-6, Gagamaru 2-8, Ikioi 3-7 and Aminishiki retired. Injuries and time doing their thing.

Indeed. I had slightly noticed this basho was feeling like a hard change of guard, a lot more than usual - but not to that extent. Those numbers are really clear. The exception to the other way around is Takakeisho's absence and impending demotion.

Speaking of which, it's rather interesting how his absence has mostly gone under the radar for the basho's duration.

EDIT: I might add Goeido to that list. Kyujo with an impending 23894th kadoban, we'll see how it goes...

Edited July 16, 2019 by Koorifuu

[Benihana 1,900]

6 hours ago, Morty said:

Instead he went with the "I'm a foot taller and 30 kilos heavier so I'm just going to smash him" which worked a treat.

Totally agree. I don't understand why nobody just grabs the back of Enhos mawashi and lifts. Each time he goes low against a significantly taller opponent i think "just piledrive him". The guy weighs just 75 courics, thwow him to the floor! Or give him some fresh & stingy tegata on his back, that should distract him enough to get a hold on him.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Benihana

[Raishu 202]

1 hour ago, Rainoyama said:

He is one of the best examples but it's just not just him, appart from the two Yokozuna and Myogiryu who is having an amazing basho, and I guess Sadanoumi who's doing ok all the other guys over 30 are not in good shape.

Tochinoshin is out injured again, Tamawashi 1-9, Aoiyama 4-6, Kotoshogiku 5-5, Takarafuji 3-7, Okinoumi and Shohozan both 4-6, Yoshikaze is out injured, Tochiozan 3-7 like you mentioned and injured Kaisei 1-9. In Juryo Tokushoryu is 4-6, Gagamaru 2-8, Ikioi 3-7 and Aminishiki retired. Injuries and time doing their thing.

Maybe this is 'a situation of radical change' we are going to experience the next couple of years or so.

Over a longer period of time, a large group of rikishi 30+ were able to hold their ground against the younger ones. This has changed recently with the young guns improving their sumo and taking advantage of the veterans' troubles with injuries. I am curious what the Nagoya 2021 banzuke will look like.

 

[robnplunder 974]

Wow!  How Endo stayed on his feet against Kotoshogiku's onslaught was amazing!   Good win for Endo and tough loss for 'giku.   

Despite Enho's popularity, he gets very few kensho.   

[Gospodin 185]

3 hours ago, Dwale said:

Tamawashi's balance rather questionable...maybe he has an ear infection or something. 

Not sure about his other bouts, but that slap immediately followed by getting Hakuho´s shoulder rammed into his chin would have made almost everybody losing his balance.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

I too thought endo did an amazing match against the geek (bring back the stretch ). Took everything hes got. Im on the the terasioshi  (sp) band wagon. .congrats for the kk. Hokotofuji and aioyama fighting hard... they will be ok. 

[robnplunder 974]

This is the 6th straight basho that Hokutofuji has been in the meat grinder.   He has survived all 6 of them with a record no worse than 7-8.   Let me applaud his amazing run and also remind him that it's time get to the next level  

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by robnplunder

[Gospodin 185]

5 hours ago, Dwale said:

Takayasu ought to go kyujo now. None of that, "But I'm the only ozeki, so I need to..." No. Go fix your arm.

Not sure if I am overthinking here, but maybe Takayasu has in mind that going kyujo tomorrow could impact the outcome of the basho - giving Hakuho a fusen win while Kakuryu has to fight another opponent...

Edited July 16, 2019 by Gospodin
correction

[Amamaniac 2,078]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

Despite Enho's popularity, he gets very few kensho.   

He gets more than most sekitori at his rank.  He got 5 on Day 1, and his total after 10 days is 20 kensho.  Keep in mind that this is only his second Top Division tournament.  His popularity will definitely grow, and along with it will come more kensho.  But I will eat my mawashi if Nagatanien dumps Endo in favour of Enho.

Anyone know how many kensho Mainoumi commanded in his heyday?  Just curious.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

This is the 6th straight basho that Hokutofuji has been in the meat grinder.   He has survived all 6 of them with a record no worse than 7-8.   Let me applaud his amazing run and also remind him that it's time get to the next level  

 

Already looks like he is on his way next level this basho, much better balance,better leg strength, better footwork and is not going for the predictable nodowa every day like he used to.  He is even going for the belt at times. Just one win away to secure his KK, and probably is return to Sanyaku !

[Akinomaki 39,497]

35 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Anyone know how many kensho Mainoumi commanded in his heyday?  Just curious. 

Kensho in these days were rare, for bouts below ozeki very rare - unless he won in 2 last bouts in a basho, Mainoumi won't ever got  as much kensho as Enho already has  this basho.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

This is the 6th straight basho that Hokutofuji has been in the meat grinder.   He has survived all 6 of them with a record no worse than 7-8.   Let me applaud his amazing run and also remind him that it's time get to the next level  

Frankly, Hokutofuji (i.e., his sumo) is looking better than ever in this tournament.  For me, one of tomorrow's highlight bouts will be his bout against Cup-holder Asanoyama.  These are two young guns reaching the peak of their skills going head to head.  There is no mismatching here.  Just straight up sumo.  At least, that's how I see it.

[Dwale 419]

2 hours ago, Gospodin said:

Not sure about his other bouts, but that slap immediately followed by getting Hakuho´s shoulder rammed into his chin would have made almost everybody losing his balance.

Yeah, if it was a one-of I wouldn't think much of it, but he's been getting a lot of air this Basho.

[Dwale 419]

1 hour ago, Gospodin said:

Not sure if I am overthinking here, but maybe Takayasu has in mind that going kyujo tomorrow could impact the outcome of the basho - giving Hakuho a fusen win while Kakuryu has to fight another opponent...

If he's thinking anything but "I need to take care of my arm and not risk further injury," then he needs to reconsider.

[lackmaker 428]

1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

This is the 6th straight basho that Hokutofuji has been in the meat grinder.   He has survived all 6 of them with a record no worse than 7-8.   Let me applaud his amazing run and also remind him that it's time get to the next level  

 

5th straight. And it that time he's never won more than 7 bouts if you ignore the fusen. He's a prospect for sure but as you say the next level awaits.