Hatsu 2014 Discussion - *contains spoilers

[Jakusotsu 6,056]

He'd better abandon that strategy altogether.

[Asojima 2,874]

Ipponzeoi!! Satoyama pulled one against Tochinowaka.

[Asashosakari 19,726]

They really need to invent a new kimarite for those Satoyama sideways throws, though...it usually doesn't look a whole lot like a shoulder throw when he attempts it, and it didn't today either.

[Asojima 2,874]

They really need to invent a new kimarite for those Satoyama sideways throws, though...it usually doesn't look a whole lot like a shoulder throw when he attempts it, and it didn't today either.

Agree, but it is still a cool move when he pulls it off.

[kuroimori 1,634]

Ipponzeoi!! Satoyama pulled one against Tochinowaka.

and related to this,

Kariya-san, who is doing NHK commentary today (with Kitano-"who-else"-fuji)

gave another fun fact trivia about Ipponzeoi in Makuuchi:

The last occurence before today was:

Aki 2011

Sagatsukasa pulled one off against - you guess it?

Tochinowaka

[Masumasumasu 902]

Like I said, Kisenosato is injured.

[Asojima 2,874]

Otokonoyama, on 23 Jan 2014 - 00:43, said:

Nice henka by Osh as payback for tachi-ai delaying/matta tactics from Kise.

Hmmm.. My thought was that Kotooshu was doing a quick jump to set up the henka.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Sure, now after getting thrown down and taking a bad bounce off the dohyo...

Nonsense. How can you possibly come to that conclusion?

He didn't land hard on his leg/foot/ankle. He didn't twist anything.

This was clearly an aggravation of a previous injury.

[krindel 675]

Kotoshogiku managed to save his rank :) . Like I said before, not a huge fan of his, but his fighting spirit this basho really made me root for him.

Good job for him!

[Kaioshoryu 63]

This basho sucks.

[Asashosakari 19,726]

Can't say I was too surprised to see Endo getting overwhelmed by Kotoshogiku, considering even mid-maegashira types have been pushing him around aplenty. Simply being a more versatile, smarter and slightly bigger version of Jokoryu probably ain't going to be enough to survive at the high ranks, so some more forging of the body will be necessary I reckon.

Edit: Or perhaps I should say, it might be enough to survive, but probably not to thrive. And if Jokoryu is too cruel as a point of comparison, I'll offer a pre-ozeki Kakuryu. He needed quite some time to break through the joi, too.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 19,726]

Incidentally, today's results mean that Kisenosato is now definitely losing the O1e spot after 7 tournaments. Longest streak since Asahifuji 25 years ago.

[krindel 675]

Can't say I was too surprised to see Endo getting overwhelmed by Kotoshogiku, considering even mid-maegashira types have been pushing him around aplenty. Simply being a more versatile, smarter and slightly bigger version of Jokoryu probably ain't going to be enough to survive at the high ranks, so some more forging of the body will be necessary I reckon.

Edit: Or perhaps I should say, it might be enough to survive, but probably not to thrive. And if Jokoryu is too cruel as a point of comparison, I'll offer a pre-ozeki Kakuryu. He needed quite some time to break through the joi, too.

When all is said and done, Endo has been a pro for just a year. He is entitled to take a bit of time to grow and polish his game. I think he can and will get better. Assuming, of course, he doesn't get buried in the pressure of overwhelming expectations...

Edit: And, incidentally, I believe the same applies even more to Chiyootori. He became a sekitori too early, and has been perceived to be a 'failed hope" because of being stationary for a few years. However, he is still the youngest sekitori all those years later, and he's slowly getting better. I definitely think he has it in him to become much more than he is now.

Edited January 23, 2014 by krindel

[Doitsuyama 1,194]

I would love to see Kakuryu go 14-1, Hak lose to Kise in the musubi no ichiban to also go 14-1, ketteisen win yusho for the new and unexpected Japanese yokozuna possibility Kakuryu... but I should really stop dreaming.

2) Kakuryu will always be of Mongolian shusshin even if he assumes Japanes citizenship which he hasn't (or?)

this depends on your understanding of 'shusshin' compared to the NSK use and general Japanese comprehension.

There are a number of examples, many prominent, that list one place when another location is in fact correct. Rikishi can, and have changed their 'shusshin' while active. And of course many, if not most expectant mothers in large cities return to their mother's home to give birth only to register birth later elsewhere. (they have 14 days in which to do so)

I think one major mistake in this regard is mixing the Japanese term in with English on the database you have and expecting it to be clear-cut.

As for Kakuryu, he will always be 'from' Mongolia in the English sense, but can change his 'shusshin' tomorrow if he so wishes.

I am aware of that, and I am astonished that you didn't come to understand that I meant the NSK use of shusshin. Kakuryu will always be written as Mongolian on the banzuke, even if he becomes a Japanese citizen, marries the rijicho's daughter and officially register shusshin in japan. Agree?

[Akinomaki 40,866]

Day 11, 8175 spectators

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20140123/sum14012305270004-n1.html

The Endo-nage for this basho was against Gagamaru.

Kisenosato-Hakuho already tomorrow - they want to keep Hakuho-Kakuryu for the last day.

[ALAKTORN 346]

“Kisenosato-Hakuho already tomorrow - they want to keep Hakuho-Kakuryu for the last day.”

I was surprised at the posts here thinking they’d still have Kise on senshūraku. I’m really no sumō expert, but I thought they’d keep the most exciting match for the final day.

Today was a good day, Ōsh kept his hopes alive and Giku is not worried anymore. At first I thought Giku would pull out of the tournament as soon as he got 8 wins, but now I wonder. Ōsh has a really tough opponent in Endō tomorrow, I think… I think Endō will win…

And Hakuhō displays yokozuna sumō after an attempted henka by Gōeidō, I love watching him. If Kakuryū keeps it up, he might actually get a shot at the yūshō (I don’t see him defeating Kisenosato, though).

[Mark.Buckton 68]

I would love to see Kakuryu go 14-1, Hak lose to Kise in the musubi no ichiban to also go 14-1, ketteisen win yusho for the new and unexpected Japanese yokozuna possibility Kakuryu... but I should really stop dreaming.

2) Kakuryu will always be of Mongolian shusshin even if he assumes Japanes citizenship which he hasn't (or?)

this depends on your understanding of 'shusshin' compared to the NSK use and general Japanese comprehension.

There are a number of examples, many prominent, that list one place when another location is in fact correct. Rikishi can, and have changed their 'shusshin' while active. And of course many, if not most expectant mothers in large cities return to their mother's home to give birth only to register birth later elsewhere. (they have 14 days in which to do so)

I think one major mistake in this regard is mixing the Japanese term in with English on the database you have and expecting it to be clear-cut.

As for Kakuryu, he will always be 'from' Mongolia in the English sense, but can change his 'shusshin' tomorrow if he so wishes.

I am aware of that, and I am astonished that you didn't come to understand that I meant the NSK use of shusshin. Kakuryu will always be written as Mongolian on the banzuke, even if he becomes a Japanese citizen, marries the rijicho's daughter and officially register shusshin in japan. Agree?

re: the bold - no suggestion whatsoever of this in your original post. Nice attempt at wriggling out of that one. :)

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

I would love to see Kakuryu go 14-1, Hak lose to Kise in the musubi no ichiban to also go 14-1, ketteisen win yusho for the new and unexpected Japanese yokozuna possibility Kakuryu... but I should really stop dreaming.

2) Kakuryu will always be of Mongolian shusshin even if he assumes Japanes citizenship which he hasn't (or?)

this depends on your understanding of 'shusshin' compared to the NSK use and general Japanese comprehension.

There are a number of examples, many prominent, that list one place when another location is in fact correct. Rikishi can, and have changed their 'shusshin' while active. And of course many, if not most expectant mothers in large cities return to their mother's home to give birth only to register birth later elsewhere. (they have 14 days in which to do so)

I think one major mistake in this regard is mixing the Japanese term in with English on the database you have and expecting it to be clear-cut.

As for Kakuryu, he will always be 'from' Mongolia in the English sense, but can change his 'shusshin' tomorrow if he so wishes.

I am aware of that, and I am astonished that you didn't come to understand that I meant the NSK use of shusshin. Kakuryu will always be written as Mongolian on the banzuke, even if he becomes a Japanese citizen, marries the rijicho's daughter and officially register shusshin in japan. Agree?

re: the bold - no suggestion whatsoever of this in your original post. Nice attempt at wriggling out of that one. :)

Hahahahaha...hilarious, sad and fascinating all at the same time. Endless entertainment. Keep it coming.

Unrelated question, and apologies if already asked. I was at the Kokugikan today and watching Endo in his first bout against Ozeki. Was wondering when the last time a rikishi with no chonmage met an Ozeki in honbasho. Can't search for that on Doitsuyama's site, I wager.

Any takers?

Edited January 23, 2014 by Pandaazuma

[Doitsuyama 1,194]

I would love to see Kakuryu go 14-1, Hak lose to Kise in the musubi no ichiban to also go 14-1, ketteisen win yusho for the new and unexpected Japanese yokozuna possibility Kakuryu... but I should really stop dreaming.

2) Kakuryu will always be of Mongolian shusshin even if he assumes Japanes citizenship which he hasn't (or?)

this depends on your understanding of 'shusshin' compared to the NSK use and general Japanese comprehension.

There are a number of examples, many prominent, that list one place when another location is in fact correct. Rikishi can, and have changed their 'shusshin' while active. And of course many, if not most expectant mothers in large cities return to their mother's home to give birth only to register birth later elsewhere. (they have 14 days in which to do so)

I think one major mistake in this regard is mixing the Japanese term in with English on the database you have and expecting it to be clear-cut.

As for Kakuryu, he will always be 'from' Mongolia in the English sense, but can change his 'shusshin' tomorrow if he so wishes.

I am aware of that, and I am astonished that you didn't come to understand that I meant the NSK use of shusshin. Kakuryu will always be written as Mongolian on the banzuke, even if he becomes a Japanese citizen, marries the rijicho's daughter and officially register shusshin in japan. Agree?

re: the bold - no suggestion whatsoever of this in your original post. Nice attempt at wriggling out of that one. :)

My suggestion was that Kakuryu by the standards of the NSK never can become a Japanese yokozuna. The writing on the banzuke is a mere reflection of that. You are wriggling here.

Edited January 23, 2014 by Doitsuyama

[krindel 675]

I would love to see Kakuryu go 14-1, Hak lose to Kise in the musubi no ichiban to also go 14-1, ketteisen win yusho for the new and unexpected Japanese yokozuna possibility Kakuryu... but I should really stop dreaming.

2) Kakuryu will always be of Mongolian shusshin even if he assumes Japanes citizenship which he hasn't (or?)

this depends on your understanding of 'shusshin' compared to the NSK use and general Japanese comprehension.

There are a number of examples, many prominent, that list one place when another location is in fact correct. Rikishi can, and have changed their 'shusshin' while active. And of course many, if not most expectant mothers in large cities return to their mother's home to give birth only to register birth later elsewhere. (they have 14 days in which to do so)

I think one major mistake in this regard is mixing the Japanese term in with English on the database you have and expecting it to be clear-cut.

As for Kakuryu, he will always be 'from' Mongolia in the English sense, but can change his 'shusshin' tomorrow if he so wishes.

I am aware of that, and I am astonished that you didn't come to understand that I meant the NSK use of shusshin. Kakuryu will always be written as Mongolian on the banzuke, even if he becomes a Japanese citizen, marries the rijicho's daughter and officially register shusshin in japan. Agree?

re: the bold - no suggestion whatsoever of this in your original post. Nice attempt at wriggling out of that one. :)

Hahahahaha...hilarious, sad and fascinating all at the same time. Endless entertainment. Keep it coming.

Unrelated question, and apologies if already asked. I was at the Kokugikan today and watching Endo in his first bout against Ozeki. Was wondering when the last time a rikishi with no chonmage met an Ozeki in honbasho. Can't search for that on Doitsuyama's site, I wager.

Any takers?

I'd expect the usual suspect, Miyabiyama, he met an ozeki (Takanonami) on Day 11 of his first Makuuchi basho which was his 5th basho overall.

No idea if he was still mage-less then, though.

[Doitsuyama 1,194]

Unrelated question, and apologies if already asked. I was at the Kokugikan today and watching Endo in his first bout against Ozeki. Was wondering when the last time a rikishi with no chonmage met an Ozeki in honbasho. Can't search for that on Doitsuyama's site, I wager.

Any takers?

That was already answered I think. It was Miyabiyama, even one basho faster than Endo. And Miyabiyama had to start from Ms60.

[Akinomaki 40,866]

Unrelated question, and apologies if already asked. I was at the Kokugikan today and watching Endo in his first bout against Ozeki. Was wondering when the last time a rikishi with no chonmage met an Ozeki in honbasho. Can't search for that on Doitsuyama's site, I wager.

Any takers?

I'd expect the usual suspect, Miyabiyama, he met an ozeki (Takanonami) on Day 11 of his first Makuuchi basho which was his 5th basho overall.

No idea if he was still mage-less then, though.

Day 10, 7878 spectators

http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20140122/sum14012205050002-n1.html

On day 12 Endo will be second fastest in his 6th basho to meet an ozeki, without top-knot, after Miyabiyama who had the same with 5 basho.

http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2014/01/22/kiji/K20140122007438560.html

[Morty 1,505]

And Hakuhō displays yokozuna sumō after an attempted henka by Gōeidō, I love watching him.

I've said it before but it is a pleasure and a privilege to watch Hak do his thing. Even if I don't want him to win half the time I appreciate what he does

[Gusoyama 104]

I once again marvel at Hakuho's dominance. I struggle to think of any athlete that I've personally seen that has had this level of mastery for this long. The only ones that come to mind are Michael Schumacher and Roger Federer in their primes. Just outstanding.

Very glad that Kotoshogiku retained his rank, I thought for sure he would lose today, but he nutted up and belly bumped the upstart out. Congratulations to him.

Personally, I think its time for Kotooshu to retire, even if he gets his 10.

While amazing, I think Satoyama's Ipponzoei was not a shoulder throw.

[Ajisen 15]

Just wondering if there are any lip reading Bulgarian sumo fans out there who could let me know what Kotooshu said after his bout with Kisenosato?