Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Usagi...I hear you. This is a disgrace. Imagine a new band emerging (from Albania) and the word is that they're the new Beatles. And then some manager buys the 'rights' to their music, and then goes on to charge $150 a CD or download, along with heavyhanded legal threats towards anyone who tries to find a way around it. It drives me mad that some people accept the ludicrous idea that a private entity has the right to 'own' art or cultural treasures like sumo and make other people pay through the nose for it. The foreign fan community is too small to make money from with advertising, so the internet stream should be considered as a means of promoting awareness of the sport and also putting a generous face on. After sticking with the Kyokai through all their scandals, the foreign fans deserve better. Having said all that, as others like Treblemaker etc. have said above, I don't think there's anything wrong with paying a reasonable fee for a service IF the providers make an effort with it - provide commentary, HD, replays etc. but by all accounts it's the same old simple stream they had when it was free. $120 a basho is some kind of sick joke. And this has really come out of left field - I really smell a rat here - it makes me wonder if someone has advised (or has financial links to??) this company that foreign fans are fanatics and will pay whatever to get it. Wrongly, as it turns out. Going for Araibara is obviously the next step in the operation. Usagi, the German Pirate Party follow me on Twitter, perhaps sensing (correctly) that like you I am a strong opponent of current copyright laws...so I almost feel obliged to fight this. I can write a letter in Japanese strongly protesting this move and post it on the forum...and then people can send it to the Kyokai, protesting this disgusting treatment of their fans. There are some sites these day (like Firstrow Live) that seem to hack into sports broadcasts and let people watch stuff for free, like the Premier League. Let's keep a look out for such. I will post anything here. Also, is there anything people living in Japan can do, like hooking up NHK to the PC and letting it stream out? It is beyond my technical abilities, I imagine, but I think Kajiyama used to do something like that, no? Edited January 13, 2014 by Pandaazuma 9 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fukurou 534 Posted January 13, 2014 (TVJapan is not available outside North America AFAIK) Although not everywhere. Generally, only large cities and areas along the west coast have an option for TV Japan, and even then only on certain satellite or cable systems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark.Buckton 68 Posted January 13, 2014 when was the last time we had a chance to watch football (soccer and American version), NFL, NHL, basketball or any other sport of significance in a given culture or nation for free? I find it incredible how many expect something for nothing from Japan but probably have to pay for sports in their own country. Quality of stream is a weak get out. FWIW Japan is WAY behind the rest of the world in online presence for entertainment. In other area it is a world leader. But, as I posted elsewhere online unconnected to sumo a while ago, and this might not immediately be understood, the Japanese-US TPP talks are linked here. Japan has essentially given up on rice and protecting farmers.(rightly so I think) Instead, Japan has opted to focus on three other areas to 'protect' above all else. Copyright is one such area. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Treblemaker 254 Posted January 13, 2014 Well, this is it for me, people. To shut down araibira, who wasn't posting live action, just highlights and replays, speaks of nothing more than greed, monopolization, avarice, arrogance and everything negative possible. To the "Foreigner" creep who might have helped put this into operation, and I have no doubts that this was the case, and who it was, my only comment is a real sarcastic "thanks". It's been fun. Keep in touch. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Even here in the outskirts of the so-called civilization, where Football Competitions are held and nothing works, there is the possibility of watching the NHK. How come Europeans don't and Americans have to take to substitutes like this TV Japan ?!? NHK is good but it offers, as you know, nothing below Makuuchi and not the comfort of clicking and watching like we have today. Japanese fans will miss it too. I have NHK but I still prefer the DB and youtube (or used to). From any approach that we take, Japanese copyright laws are a big hassle. The simple and trivial act of listening to a Japanese radio requires lots of patience and some willingness to learn computer jargon if you happen to be living outside the Archipelago. I am more surprised that we got this free ride for a while than that we won't anymore. That said a while ago the NSK, NHK or some acronym made watching sumo harder for some reason I don't remember and, as a response, some good soul rascal out there put the recordings up on some pirate site. Of course, as a law-abiding citizen I didn't watch and never would, but my point is, one way or another, something will turn up. Edited January 13, 2014 by shumitto Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark.Buckton 68 Posted January 13, 2014 one minor 'silver lining' is that there are at least two TV documentaries being planned on sumo for the spring. One from the UK, another from Spain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fukurou 534 Posted January 13, 2014 Japan has essentially given up on rice and protecting farmers.(rightly so I think) Instead, Japan has opted to focus on three other areas to 'protect' above all else. Copyright is one such area. I'll believe the part about copyright when they start shutting down the doujinshi market, cosplayers and Comiket. Especially Comiket. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kintamayama 45,132 Posted January 13, 2014 one minor 'silver lining' is that there are at least two TV documentaries being planned on sumo for the spring. One from the UK, another from Spain. Mark, for those of us who truly love the sport, this is not even a copper vase, let alone a silver lining.. 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,501 Posted January 13, 2014 one minor 'silver lining' is that there are at least two TV documentaries being planned on sumo for the spring. One from the UK, another from Spain. How in hell is that a silver lining? 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,634 Posted January 13, 2014 one minor 'silver lining' is that there are at least two TV documentaries being planned on sumo for the spring. One from the UK, another from Spain. How in hell is that a silver lining? only he knows 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pandaazuma 1,310 Posted January 13, 2014 The Sumo Kyokai twitter feed: @sumokyokai Go on there and give them hell...make sure you mention Ustream in the tweet if you write in English, so they get the gist. As for the idiotic 'something for nothing' comment above, this is not the issue. As has been made clear by many in this thread, people wouldn't mind paying a reasonable fee if there was a service worth paying for...but suddenly it's a huge $120 a month for a crappy feed on a niche sport watched by a few hundred ardent fans that hasn't been improved in any way from the free version. Anyone defending this travesty is either clueless or they're benefiting from it somehow. What a disgrace. 5 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masumasumasu 902 Posted January 13, 2014 one minor 'silver lining' is that there are at least two TV documentaries being planned on sumo for the spring. One from the UK, another from Spain. How in hell is that a silver lining? Depends on how you define 'silver lining'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shumitto 418 Posted January 13, 2014 I like those documentaries... "sumo wrestlers are treated like gods and have unrestricted access to the Emperor... their diet is based on chanko, a delicious soup prepared with..." 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,634 Posted January 14, 2014 no good araibira postet on fb I got hit with my first copyright strike! It looks like the end is near. It was fun while it lasted. I guess after deciding to get rid of foreign rikishi, the next step is to get rid of foreign fans as well. I am seriously saddened by all this, the combination of the exorbitant price scheme and the lack of any alternative (TVJapan is not available outside North America AFAIK) will mean that if they also stamp out the archived youtube footage, there will be no access whatsoever for the majority of foreign fans. If anyone has any option that involves a realistic cost, I'd be glad to hear it, otherwise I think things are looking desperately gloomy. For those on Facebook, you can let the NSK know how you feel: https://www.facebook.com/sumoudaisuki For those on Twitter: https://twitter.com/sumokyokai Thanks for the links to facebook, this twitty thingy and also the facebook group in your signature! saw araibira farewell speech video on his channel (I hope it is not) some smartass mentioned his channel in one of the comments on the Kyokai Facebook site! (Locked...) Thanks for showing them the way, pal! Let us all lay a massive shitstorm on the Kyokai that will tsuppari them out of their comfort zone! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fukurou 534 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) If anyone is still thinking Ustream is setting the price for this, please check the PPV FAQ, accessed from the Kyokai's web page - https://ustream.zendesk.com/entries/21657177-ppv-pay-per-view-faq I like the part in the Broadcasters section, where Ustream, after using $7.99/month for Netflix unlimited streaming as an example, writes "Since PPV will be a one time live event, we recommend keeping prices affordable. This’ll help lower the barrier for viewers on trying out your PPV event. The minimum price we allow is $0.99, so this will be a good starting point." They can change their prices for an event, until someone buys a ticket. And Geo-restriction is an available option, so that's probably coming next. Edited January 14, 2014 by Fukurou 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,634 Posted January 14, 2014 mahalo! hail to the great sumo video master! keep on keeping on, you are our hero! (Showing respect...) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torquato 1,075 Posted January 14, 2014 Araibiras last comment? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpvlBED9Hhk Uhh... Touching... Leaves me speechless somehow right now... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asojima 2,874 Posted January 14, 2014 Araibira's Day 3 playlist. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kuroimori 1,634 Posted January 14, 2014 As for all the protest comments on the NSK facebook page and knowing a bit about English skills in especially very conservative companies / associations in Japan, I guess it would be much more effective to post in Japanese or for those (most here, including me) who are not fluent in Japanese writing, to provide some simple phrases which can be copypasted as comments. I am just picturing the NSK fb-administrators right now, thinking they just get a lot of "eigo foreign fan mail"... 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kuroyama 715 Posted January 14, 2014 (edited) when was the last time we had a chance to watch football (soccer and American version), NFL, NHL, basketball or any other sport of significance in a given culture or nation for free? I find it incredible how many expect something for nothing from Japan but probably have to pay for sports in their own country.Well, I've been watching the makuuchi action last few basho with an online Argentinian friend, an expat living in Mexico, conversing about it via Skype, and in "return" I've been enjoying his favorite Argentinian rugby (!) team with him. Again: Niche sport, small foreign interest -- hell, there were only a few dozen fans in the stadium, never mind viewing online. That feed was also free. There are situations where an expensive PPV model will work. This isn't one of them. Quality of stream is a weak get out.Nonsense. I get charged a premium fee, I expect premium service. Period. But, as I posted elsewhere online unconnected to sumo a while ago, and this might not immediately be understood, the Japanese-US TPP talks are linked here.Which has nothing to do with anything, given the current dearth of American rikishi and a probable nadir of American interest in the sport. Japan has essentially given up on rice and protecting farmers.(rightly so I think) Instead, Japan has opted to focus on three other areas to 'protect' above all else. Copyright is one such area.Along with Fukurou, I'll believe that's a genuine concern in Japan when they start cracking down on the doujinshi market. Edited January 14, 2014 by Kuroyama 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark.Buckton 68 Posted January 14, 2014 Japan has essentially given up on rice and protecting farmers.(rightly so I think) Instead, Japan has opted to focus on three other areas to 'protect' above all else. Copyright is one such area. I'll believe the part about copyright when they start shutting down the doujinshi market, cosplayers and Comiket. Especially Comiket. wait and see. A lot of this has come out of late. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Benevolance 2,501 Posted January 14, 2014 when was the last time we had a chance to watch football (soccer and American version), NFL, NHL, basketball or any other sport of significance in a given culture or nation for free? I find it incredible how many expect something for nothing from Japan but probably have to pay for sports in their own country. Hah. I'd totally missed that comment before, even though I indirectly answered it in my response. But yes, all NHL games broadcast by our NHK TV equivalent are both streamed and broadcast for free. We indirectly pay for it, as Canadians, because CBC funding comes from taxpayer money. But any of you foreigners can enjoy our Canadian hockey at no charge - because CBC doesn't regionally restrict. They also broadcast via OTA antenna feeds, so you have, like 3 different ways to watch hockey for free. And hockey is about as religious as sports get when it's hockey in Canada. But, hey. Hockey is a pretty niche sport. It doesn't yet have the world appeal that sumo has garnered. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Masumasumasu 902 Posted January 14, 2014 when was the last time we had a chance to watch football (soccer and American version), NFL, NHL, basketball or any other sport of significance in a given culture or nation for free? I find it incredible how many expect something for nothing from Japan but probably have to pay for sports in their own country. Hah. I'd totally missed that comment before, even though I indirectly answered it in my response. But yes, all NHL games broadcast by our NHK TV equivalent are both streamed and broadcast for free. We indirectly pay for it, as Canadians, because CBC funding comes from taxpayer money. But any of you foreigners can enjoy our Canadian hockey at no charge - because CBC doesn't regionally restrict. They also broadcast via OTA antenna feeds, so you have, like 3 different ways to watch hockey for free. And hockey is about as religious as sports get when it's hockey in Canada. But, hey. Hockey is a pretty niche sport. It doesn't yet have the world appeal that sumo has garnered. Team sports suck. (Sorry, Benevolence.) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark.Buckton 68 Posted January 14, 2014 when was the last time we had a chance to watch football (soccer and American version), NFL, NHL, basketball or any other sport of significance in a given culture or nation for free? I find it incredible how many expect something for nothing from Japan but probably have to pay for sports in their own country.Well, I've been watching the makuuchi action last few basho with an online Argentinian friend, an expat living in Mexico, conversing about it via Skype, and in "return" I've been enjoying his favorite Argentinian rugby (!) team with him. Again: Niche sport, small foreign interest -- hell, there were only a few dozen fans in the stadium, never mind viewing online. That feed was also free.There are situations where an expensive PPV model will work. This isn't one of them. Quality of stream is a weak get out.Nonsense. I get charged a premium fee, I expect premium service. Period.But, as I posted elsewhere online unconnected to sumo a while ago, and this might not immediately be understood, the Japanese-US TPP talks are linked here.Which has nothing to do with anything, given the current dearth of American rikishi and a probable nadir of American interest in the sport.Japan has essentially given up on rice and protecting farmers.(rightly so I think) Instead, Japan has opted to focus on three other areas to 'protect' above all else. Copyright is one such area.Along with Fukurou, I'll believe that's a genuine concern in Japan when they start cracking down on the doujinshi market. the doujinshi market, if being understood properly as it has a lot of grey areas is minor given the scale the Japanese government are talking. And let's not forget - the NSK falls under the watchful eye of the Education Ministry if I am not mistaken. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Asashosakari 19,331 Posted January 14, 2014 As nobody has talked about it yet I'll go ahead and ask: What's the time-delayed viewing feature like? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites