Video Stream - Availability

[Gernobono 467]

how would you rate the value / performance of an NFL GamePass vs. the new 1-Day ticket Ozumo ticket?

i got what i paid for

My guess is that there was quite some nice revenue generated today driven mainly by plain curiosity or lack of alternative live feed options, but come tomorrow, a regular weekday outside Japan, those revenues will drop sharply (at least for most of the forum members).

i guess you are right.....but i do not care if ustream is making money or losing some with the stream

[Treblemaker 254]

I don't see how anyone in their right mind could support this move at the prices they demand, and the way they've implemented it.

so let me open your eyes......i bought a daily ticket......because i just like to see ozumo live and i spend $10 or the equivalent in euros for things i do not like as much as ozumo......and shonichi live is worth the money for me....

Ok, fair enough. Perhaps, as the NSK can do as they wish, so can those who really want to watch. YMMV.

I shouldn't be speaking for others. And I apologise for questioning the sanity [?] of those who are prepared to participate. That's their choice.

Suffice to say I won't be partaking in this. Out of principle.

[Gernobono 467]

Suffice to say I won't be partaking in this. Out of principle.

now i am curious

what's your principle?

not paying for content on the internet that companies provide?

not paying for something that was free (suprisingly in my eyes) for years?

Edited January 12, 2014 by Gernobono

[krindel 688]

Suffice to say I won't be partaking in this. Out of principle.

now i am curious

what's your principle?

not paying for content on the internet that companies provide?

not paying for something that was free (suprisingly in my eyes) for years?

so

For me at least the principle is "not paying for content I consider wildly overpriced". For me, a price of around 20-30$ per basho would be acceptable (and even then I would expect something more than a simple one-camera coverage with no commentary or additional content). 120$ per basho (720$ for a "season pass" so to speak) is not.

For comparison, a little research shows you need to pay 80$ to watch every Euroleague Basketball game in a season, 120$ to watch every single UEFA Champions League game, an NBA season pass is 200$ and an NFL season pass is 220$. And that's for the full tv-style coverage.

Of course, in entertainment the value of a service is what people are willing to pay for it, and if it turns out that there are enough people who consider this price for this service fair, then it is a fair price.

Edited January 12, 2014 by krindel

[Asojima 2,874]

For me at least the principle is "not paying for content I consider wildly overpriced". For me, a price of around 20-30$ per basho would be acceptable (and even then I would expect something more than a simple one-camera coverage with no commentary or additional content).

Fully agree except that I would even be content with the service we had in the last 2 basho.

[Treblemaker 254]

Suffice to say I won't be partaking in this. Out of principle.

now i am curious

what's your principle?

not paying for content on the internet that companies provide?

not paying for something that was free (suprisingly in my eyes) for years?

My Principle? Simple. I will not patronize an organization that takes the actions that this one took in dealing with the very people who support it.

NSK motives like greed, opportunism and a totally out-of-scale financial increase for a service while not providing an appropriately increased improved performance.

I will support fair, equitable services that take into account the needs and wishes of their target audiences. I will not support arrogance and avarice.

What more do you not understand?

[Gernobono 467]

What more do you not understand?

i umderstand what you are saying....

but did you consider that the nsk does not have any rights in telling ustream what to take for their service

maybe they sold the internet-rights to ustream as they did with the tv-rights to nhk.......

and ustream is now trying to make money.....

my guess is that it will not pay off for them at the actual prices, but time will tell

[Asojima 2,874]

... but did you consider that the nsk does not have any rights in telling ustream what to take for their service

maybe they sold the internet-rights to ustream as they did with the tv-rights to nhk.......

and ustream is now trying to make money.....

Part of NSK's business plan is the marketing of its internet franchise. Ustream provides some tools that they can use in this endeavor, but the NSK retains all of its rights and controls the pricing of the pay per view. This may be a good or bad business decision, but it is NSK's to make and adjust to maximize profits and minimize losses. As recipients of the service, we are simply cogs in the business plan, and that is as it should be.

[Kintamayama 47,311]

I'm pretty sure that NHK had a say in this as well. No way the Kyokai could do this without consulting the guys that are in charge of the lion's share of the sumo broadcasts. I'll bet my inflatable doll that NHK A) agreed as long as the Ustream prices would be much higher than their own. This way they kill two birds with one stone- no more freebies and at the same time they are the best alternative price-wise. And B) have been complaining to the Kyokai for years that their free broadcast , inferior as it may be, undermines their own. I'll bet it's the reason the quality remains crap as well.

What I don't get- why not keep it for free locally and charge overseas viewers, much like many American and English TV channels do?

Something here doesn't make sense to me. This definitely hurts the overseas fans exclusively, as I doubt many locals watch the stream when they have NSK in glorious HD.

I will now go make some tea and hope that in the morning we'll still be here.

[Kuroyama 715]

For me at least the principle is "not paying for content I consider wildly overpriced".

And there we are. For this price I'd expect quite a bit more than what the stream provides: -- better quality, more camera angles, replays, commentary -- but even if it had all the features of an NHK broadcast it would STILL be overpriced compared to other sports.

how would you rate the value / performance of an NFL GamePass vs. the new 1-Day ticket Ozumo ticket?

i got what i paid for

The matter you've avoided is how you're paying quite a bit more for a whole lot less. For the equivalent of about $300, you can watch every NFL game from the entire preseason, all regular season games, all playoff games, and the Superbowl, you get access to the 24-hr NFL channel, and 3 full years of replays, with all content in HD resolution. A stripped-down version with fewer features costs about $220, and if you wanted to save some money and you have a particular team you follow, you can get just that team's games for about $185.

The cost of the full NFL GamePass with sumo won't even get you 3 full basho, and you'll get them with low resolution, no commentary, limited camera angles, and no other coverage at all. For this money they ought to be delivering much, much more.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Kuroyama

[Fukurou 534]

live stream found

http://resource.kukuplay.com/players/prerelease.php?cid=380789_1361122363214

or

http://resource.ws.kukuplay.com/players/2014/01/04/48901/fengyun.swf?cid=380789_1361122363214

What is that, a Chinese sports network?

[Mark.Buckton 68]

Suffice to say I won't be partaking in this. Out of principle.

now i am curious

what's your principle?

not paying for content on the internet that companies provide?

not paying for something that was free (suprisingly in my eyes) for years?

My Principle? Simple. I will not patronize an organization that takes the actions that this one took in dealing with the very people who support it.

NSK motives like greed, opportunism and a totally out-of-scale financial increase for a service while not providing an appropriately increased improved performance.

I will support fair, equitable services that take into account the needs and wishes of their target audiences. I will not support arrogance and avarice.

What more do you not understand?

too many variables in here - prove out of scale compared to similar services INSIDE Japan (not the US comparisons others are using)

What is fair?

What is equitable?

How can the needs and wishes of said target audience be gauged?

[Mark.Buckton 68]

For me at least the principle is "not paying for content I consider wildly overpriced".

And there we are. For this price I'd expect quite a bit more than what the stream provides: -- better quality, more camera angles, replays, commentary -- but even if it had all the features of an NHK broadcast it would STILL be overpriced compared to other sports.

how would you rate the value / performance of an NFL GamePass vs. the new 1-Day ticket Ozumo ticket?

i got what i paid for

The matter you've avoided is how you're paying quite a bit more for a whole lot less. For the equivalent of about $300, you can watch every NFL game from the entire preseason, all regular season games, all playoff games, and the Superbowl, you get access to the 24-hr NFL channel, and 3 full years of replays, with all content in HD resolution. A stripped-down version with fewer features costs about $220, and if you wanted to save some money and you have a particular team you follow, you can get just that team's games for about $185.

The cost of the full NFL GamePass with sumo won't even get you 3 full basho, and you'll get them with low resolution, no commentary, limited camera angles, and no other coverage at all. For this money they ought to be delivering much, much more.

again why all this comparison to the US when price comparisons to Japan based packages are far more sensible.

The US has much more in the way of sports TV, sports overall that fans want to see / watch / visit than Japan with - not only, but primarily - baseball (12 team), and football (18 teams in J1). No other sport gets regular TV coverage except sumo.

What does America have - American football / baseball / hockey / basketball / MLS?

Were I a fan of any of these, I would, being based in Japan, expect to pay quite a bit more and have limited options compared to fans closer to the action. But then again, I choose where I want to live.

[Asojima 2,874]

Araibira's Day 2 playlist.

[Kuroyama 715]

Were I a fan of any of these, I would, being based in Japan, expect to pay quite a bit more and have limited options compared to fans closer to the action. But then again, I choose where I want to live.

Were you a fan of the NFL, you'd pay exactly what I said, in Japan or anywhere else. It's a service available to international users only, not US residents. They actually give the prices in EU; I converted for the purposes of my post. Edited January 13, 2014 by Kuroyama

[Mark.Buckton 68]

Were I a fan of any of these, I would, being based in Japan, expect to pay quite a bit more and have limited options compared to fans closer to the action. But then again, I choose where I want to live.

Were you a fan of the NFL, you'd pay exactly what I said, in Japan or anywhere else. It's a service available to international users only, not US residents. They actually give the prices in EU; I converted for the purposes of my post.

perhaps mention that at the start to avoid confusion. And, I am guessing a good portion of this site's members are Europeans. The US-era is still largely represented on the SML.

Anyway, so 32 teams, just 16 games per team per season? 300US$ About 18 dollars per game day? Sumo is 10 dollars.

[Mark.Buckton 68]

Were I a fan of any of these, I would, being based in Japan, expect to pay quite a bit more and have limited options compared to fans closer to the action. But then again, I choose where I want to live.

Were you a fan of the NFL, you'd pay exactly what I said, in Japan or anywhere else. It's a service available to international users only, not US residents. They actually give the prices in EU; I converted for the purposes of my post.

Actually - would be interested - how much would US residents pay?

[Gernobono 467]

just to add

the prices for ustream are a bit high......it was ok for shonichi, but i doubt it will be for the first weekend or day 14

[Kuroyama 715]

Anyway, so 32 teams, just 16 games per team per season? 300US$ About 18 dollars per game day? Sumo is 10 dollars.

14 games on Sundays, usually, plus one the preceding Thursday and one on Monday. Given that a game is a regulation hour, and in real time frequently lasts double that, plus all pre- and post-game coverage (which you do not get with sumo) and other normal broadcast features like instant replays and commentary, a Sunday of this service gets you at least 28 hours of quality coverage. There's a bit more to a "day" on your calculation in the NFL than in sumo, and more provided for the price.

Actually - would be interested - how much would US residents pay?

It's not available to US residents as far as I can tell, probably because they've sold broadcast rights to other companies. It's only available outside the US (and probably Canada). Inside the US you can only get the "Rewind" service that lets you watch recorded games. (I think you can watch preseason games online too, but not regular/post-season.) Edited January 13, 2014 by Kuroyama

[Gernobono 467]

Logging in from more that one computer is also OK for NFL Game Pass, isn't it?

no, it is not at the same time

[Gernobono 467]

no good

araibira postet on fb

I got hit with my first copyright strike! It looks like the end is near. It was fun while it lasted.

[Shiro 13]

For me sumo will affectively end. I simply cannot afford to pay 10 bucks a day for 15 days 6 times a year. I can't even afford cable let alone this. It's not a question of wether I am a real or true fan. I am, believe me. It's simply financially impossible.

[Benevolance 2,534]

Actually - would be interested - how much would US residents pay?

In Canada, local team a la carte hockey games were $3 CDN here for a hi-def feed. That covered about 45-50 games of the season. Another ~20 games were free, as they were streamed online by our national broadcaster in addition to the cable feed. That left ~10 'must see' games in a season that were PPV events, and cost about $7-15 a game, depending on which cable channel was hosting the PPV. For a while, TSN was also broadcasting the games free online as long as you were 'out of market', meaning that there wasn't a competing televised broadcast in your area.

In the first case (the 50 or so games) you could buy a package deal which brought the effective cost down to about $2.50 per game. If you were buying the a la carte feed on a game-by-game basis, instead of the subscription, you could also watch any previously recorded games. Your token wouldn't expire until the next scheduled hockey game started (which usually gives you 24 to 48 hours).

Also, it wasn't limited to a single computer. You couldn't watch on more than one computer at a time, but I'd started a game at work, and finished watching at home with no problems. Also, I don't know that there was an actual technical restriction about 2 computers at once, maybe it was more of an honor system?

Recently, this model has been replaced by a subscription model with is $200 a year. That lets you watch any game that's out of market, any time during the season. It's mostly aimed at ex-pats who want to keep up with their local team, or someone who wants to follow an out of market franchise. Not all of those games are hi-def, however - it depends on whether the television station doing the recording uses hi-def cameras. Some arenas don't support it. That package - for a person who had nothing to do but watch hockey - equates to about 40 games per week.

The hockey is probably a good comparable example, because a typical season is 10 pre-season games, 82 regular games, (then playoffs). So most specators can see their team play ~92 match ups, compared to 90 days of matchups in sumo.

I love sumo, and I'm willing to pay something for it, but not at the current cost/reward model. I'd be willing to drop $30-$35 a tournament, assuming they get a decent video feed. Currently, we host sumo kick-off and wind-up parties for every tournament, and we'll probably get our friends who come out to chip in $2, to cover Day 1 and Day 15 costs.

As an aside, our house has seemed eerily quiet this January. Sumo starts about 4pm this time of year, and for the past couple years we've always had the lower division feed on in the background as we go about our evening affairs. My 2 year old son loves to sing along with the yobidashi (probably his favorite part of sumo, after the stamping). This time out, even catching up on matches with youtube, it's not the same without all the ritual. It's a shame.

But! We fly to Japan every couple years and take in a sumo tournament, regardless. So I'll get to see some sumo again. But I'd like to enjoy sumo here, at home, and not have it limited to an exclusive club.

[krindel 688]

no good

araibira postet on fb

I got hit with my first copyright strike! It looks like the end is near. It was fun while it lasted.

I guess after deciding to get rid of foreign rikishi, the next step is to get rid of foreign fans as well. I am seriously saddened by all this, the combination of the exorbitant price scheme and the lack of any alternative (TVJapan is not available outside North America AFAIK) will mean that if they also stamp out the archived youtube footage, there will be no access whatsoever for the majority of foreign fans.

If anyone has any option that involves a realistic cost, I'd be glad to hear it, otherwise I think things are looking desperately gloomy.

[Usagi 40]

I could afford, and I would - even in this miserable quality. But I won't, as it is immoral to rip off fans of this sport in such away. I am member of the pirate party Germany, and strongly oppose the current copyright laws and so it is a matter of honor, not to pay for such kind of blackmailing. :( :( :(

Edited January 13, 2014 by Usagi