Video Stream - Availability

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

Interesting times, indeed.

When I started to get interested in sumo – what? – eight years ago (a ridiculously short time compared to the history of other people in this place), there was basically no footage available except for the Eurosport treat wich aired something like one month after the end of each basho. There might have been other sources, but if so, I wasn't aware of them. A little later, I found SumoTalk and gladly sucked up the daily reports, since they added depth to bare numbers. And not only that. I started to get information beyond the competition, backgrounds of wrestlers, stories of past glories and naturally – it still being ST – of present corruption. And there was a forum! Full with noisy people of questionable character.

At the same time, I finally became aware that the link to the live stream on the NSK site wasn't dead, as I had assumed before, but merely (and logically) switched off during basho downtime. Oh the joy to HEAR sumo for the first time!!! The first time I heard the yobidashi SING OUT the names of the upcoming contestants is filed in the most treasured section of my lifetime's moments of immediacy. And to see the action live! Granted, "the action" basically involved colored blobs of varying radius colliding, accompanied by grunting sounds that at least contributed to the idea that this was the real thing I was watching, and not some kind of abstract avantguard video performance. But what a joy it was, anyway. For the first time, I saw the build-up of an Asashoryu bout! I have goose pimples writing this sentence. Pure, raw, intensive and barely contained aggression moulded into the patterns of an ancient ceremony and pressed through 5 cents worth of network transmission quality.

So that was the new thing then: Seeing the action...barely...plus having a commentary available the other day. Enter: kajiyama. When Mario – a burning zealot of Camp Baruto – came up with the idea to tap into the already existing private installation of a slingshot TV signal in order to upload recordings of the whole day IN GREATLY ENHANCED QUALITY, and then basically making it work already soon after that, we strolled into the next glorious chapter. Or did we? At that point, several things happened. First, the traffic on ST multiplied and multiplied and multiplied. Why? Because all the lurkers that called SumoForum or the SML their homes (but couldn't resist to peek into the dirty corners of the community once in a while) hooked their thing into the thing like in the metaphor I cannot seem to come up with just now. And it was great. The seperation between the sub-communities somehow diminished, because the posh people could watch the action at the dirty place, which suddenly turned out to be OKish since recently. Invitations to games were mentioned. Playing games was even more fun with the action available. Games unite etc. blahblah grouphug.

The second consequence, though, was that reporting on sumo (at least in the daily style of ST) became somewhat devalued, what with the footage available anyway, so what the fuck are those jerks talking about (except paranoid stuff). That led to a change of style with some contributers over there, myself included. Reports turned away from the actual action – you had seen them anyway – to broader topics. Or if they didn't, they slowly got affected by a cumbersome subtone, like if the authors were aware that what they were doing had become somehow redundant. This was certainly one factor why Mario, Martin, Mark and me (alliteration anyone?) were slowly fading out. ONE factor.

That aside, kajiyama's videos were the prime source of entertainment for homies and lurkers alike. Just now when I thought back to those not so far away times, I remembered the anxiety when rumors came up, that we might actually run into some copyrights issues. Strange, I had almost forgotten, but I have been involved in some cloak-and-dagger stunt, where we removed the vids of a certain basho and placed them in a newly created section of the forum, where they were available only to members with a specified minimum post count. We really thought THEY ARE OUT TO GET US.

And then these videos also started to be redundant.

Because the NSK decided to quintuple the quality of the stream. So everyone could always watch everything. And as it is with stuff that's just lying around, everyone thought it's free and will stay like this. Cloak-and-dagger my ass. At that time it turned out that it was totally no problemo to throw the stuff on the tube, the name of which we Elves would never utter (except when we are drunk). But something didn't quite fit, did it? I remember thinking, "The Unspeakable Tube might not be a good move." But then I forgot about it. Much later, in a private message concerning technical stuff, Doitsuyama mentioned channels being taken down. I remember having a eye-twitching-for-two-seconds reaction to that, but the general sedation of feeling-safe-because-I'm-singing-real-loud-with-hands-over-my-ears still worked fine.

The twitching came back, when I saw the donation requests. Plural. "Hey what", you are now saying to your screen, "is that Captain Hindsight?!" And you are probably right.

Over the past eight years, we came from nothing and have arrived at nothing. Unfortunately, in between we have seen a lot. And because of what we have seen, parts of what we had in the first nothing (I admit, this calculation is not very exact...) has disappeared. Don't get me wrong! I'm not sayin that there is no replacement for the more varied reporting on ST from back then. First of all, the site is still there, even though the local Forum has been dead now for two years. Secondly, people like Achim and Yubinhaad have been producing so much content here (in addition to the usual while exceptional input from more senior contributers and others who I cannot even start to spell out one by one, but cheers!). There is far more to see than in the years back then.

So do you still like your sumo without the footage?

No.

What kind of fan are you?

A thinking one.

So you are fading away because they took away your toys?

No.

So...wait...what?

It has nothing to do with the vids.

Pardon?

I just realized my sumo went away with the ghost basho at the latest, maybe Asashoryu took it before. I realize I like my protagonists. Tennis was interesting with Boris and Ivan. Then it sucked. Then it was the best thing ever with Roger. Now it sucks again. I hate to say it, but I don't cream my pants because of Takanoyama, Masunoyama should seek help, Endo annoys me already now, Kisenosato and the Geek... I lack the words, Hakuho is what I like to watch when my brain needs a rest. I only enjoy it when Aminishiki henkas one of the other twerps. I remeber writing that I am prepared to find joy in the younger generation (or even in the guys washed up by artificially emptied ranks). I realize that I cheated myself.

I take the current events as a welcome break. No hard feelings please. Others have come back.

Those of you, WHO DON'T SHARE MY FEELINGS, don't despair. Just take turns in recording the main stuff from NHK. The more tech savy people will help to explain how to convert and upload. Find a file dump place, share the link exclusively on this forum. It worked then, it will work now. Right, people will have to download, it won't be insta-available or near live, but for the time being, it should work out fair enough. (Consolation, though, to the REALREAL fans, who find so much joy in watching the lower divisions. You also might find ways, I'm sure.)

The only wish I have is that I would like to be able to control Doitsuyama's brain, so that he makes the database invitation-only, in order to teach a lesson to all the fuckers at the NSK who are using it.

Til soon, I'll stick around.

Edited January 16, 2014 by yorikiried by fate

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Also, had a glance at Kuroyama's comment dismissing my source's info as nonsense. I'm very sorry but there are complexities to this situation that you're not aware of, and I'm afraid I can't explain more as the source asked me not to say anything that might identify them (and explaining this might do that). It is not as simple as you like to make it out. Cheers...and good night!

There are no complexities, if the issue is getting YouTube to take down videos. If the issue is that it's been controversial within the NSK whether or not araibira's channel should be shut down, that's not "the Kyokai... trying to get the videos taken down", that's the Kyokai trying to decide whether or not they should do it at all.

So perhaps what you said wasn't exactly what you meant.

Nope...what I said is exactly what I meant. Sorry I can't explain more. I wouldn't have said it at all (as in general - apart from special exceptions - I'm against the use of anonymous sources), but I thought people would appreciate as much info as possible in this case where feelings are obviously running high.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

NSK's fb page rating change:

Jan 15: 4.5 out of 5 stars

Jan. 16: 3.0 out of 5 stars

Keep it comin' y'all, show them your love!

Yeah, get on there everyone...and Twitter too...and bombard them with low ratings. If they notice something's wrong, they might take action. Remember the Kyokai are terrified of negative publicity!

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

In desperation I digged in the jungle of the net and found the following temporary solution:

http://www.myniji.tv/

You have to download the software, register with email address, user name and password, activate the registration code and after activation log in with email address and password. Now you can watch several Japanese streaming TV's, among others NHK. Here in Hungary picture quality acceptable but little sluggish, however you can listen Japanese commentator and watch replays. Better than nothing.

For some reason the page would not load on my PC, making me think it was dodgy, but Torquato says it works. Perhaps everyone should take a look at this option in the interim.

[Marmarsu 0]

Some hibernation is allways good!

....., so that he makes the database invitation-only, in order to teach a lesson to all the fuckers at the NSK who are using it.

I totally agree!

[Sumozumo 240]

A Japanese friend sent me this...I'm too dead to translate it...need some kip...but maybe someone else could summarize the gist. The friend (not the source I mentioned earlier) says that this article says UStream might only be a one-basho trial if it's not popular or something. I've not had time to read it, but it might be relevant. Take a look:

http://toda.sg/online/sumo-on-ustream/

Just the known facts, + opinion:

- the thing is also an experiment to see how much the fans are willing to pay

- it is seen as exploiting the situation of fans longing to see sumo but can't otherwise

- not meaningful for Japanese, because NHK Premium provides world-wide coverage

- just no reference to (conditions for) future basho yet – that doesn't mean that Ustream is a trial

What was that part in the middle - something about something (the stream?) being 1000 yen and 104 yen. Google Translate mangled things, but part of its translation said "the video is US $ 1." What the heck are they talking about?

That part, all it says is "... for the 1 day-ticket (pass) the cost in Japanese Yen is more than 1000. (On 1/15 the exchange rate to $1 was 104 Yen)"

Then it says "The season long pass is more than 15000 Yen"

So its consistent with everything.

[Asashosakari 20,200]

What was that part in the middle - something about something (the stream?) being 1000 yen and 104 yen. Google Translate mangled things, but part of its translation said "the video is US $ 1." What the heck are they talking about?

That section mentions the current exchange rate as $1 = ¥104, and if I'm not mistaken it talks about the unreserved all-day ticket for the Kokugikan which costs ¥15,000 (= ¥1,000 per day). Edited January 17, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Asashosakari 20,200]

I'm pretty sure I actually had that NIJI thing on my system already some years ago (possibly under a slightly different name, but the program looks familiar) before the service went bust shortly after I installed it. Interesting to see it's up again, but for anyone getting their hopes up, these streaming services tend not to last long and/or are quite flaky.

[Benevolance 2,534]

Asashosakari, I love your new title.

[Kuroyama 715]

Nope...what I said is exactly what I meant. Sorry I can't explain more. I wouldn't have said it at all (as in general - apart from special exceptions - I'm against the use of anonymous sources), but I thought people would appreciate as much info as possible in this case where feelings are obviously running high.

I'm not going to belabor the point any further then, only: what you said made no sense whatsoever. Saying nothing at all would have been safer, because as things stand it looks like shenanigans.

[Treblemaker 254]

I'm pretty sure I actually had that NIJI thing on my system already some years ago (possibly under a slightly different name, but the program looks familiar) before the service went bust shortly after I installed it. Interesting to see it's up again, but for anyone getting their hopes up, these streaming services tend not to last long and/or are quite flaky.

Actually, it works pretty well. Was surprised. Aspect ratio is off, but I'll find a way around that. There are only 7 channels.

[Mark.Buckton 68]

What was that part in the middle - something about something (the stream?) being 1000 yen and 104 yen. Google Translate mangled things, but part of its translation said "the video is US $ 1." What the heck are they talking about?

That section mentions the current exchange rate as $1 = ¥104, and if I'm not mistaken it talks about the unreserved all-day ticket for the Kokugikan which costs ¥15,000 (= ¥1,000 per day).

Doreen will know better here as she uses this I think, but IIRC it is 20,000.

[Vikanohara 171]

"Hi everyone, my family has requested that I ask for donations one last time. This will go towards any legal fees I might have to pay for in the future."

(link removed)

Does anyone really think the NSK would be worth approaching with this now out there on FB?

That's not very wise, indeed.

To improve chances of having this nightmare to end next basho, maybe an option is to flood the supervisor of the NSK with a petition of complaint against them:

saying they are destroying the hard work of the volunteer sumo fans (us), doing their best to spread in the world the love for this important aspect of Japanese culture, introducing the ordinary potential tourist to Japan to many aspects of the kokugi sumo (kokugi means, it mustn't be handled like a simple sports broadcast).

We have to stress that for this we need to be able to tell them: just look at this, this is sumo and Japan as it is now – and all you need to know to understand all of it is provided by us (of course we can't mention what we do/did with the stream, because we had no right to do that anyway).

So far it was possible, the NSK has fulfilled their responsibility as the guardian of this aspect of Japanese culture, anybody could see how sumo was like, but now the greed of the NSK has put an end to it.

They did this in spite of the fact that all institutions (especially the public interest ones) of Japan, after getting the Tokyo Olympics should strive to give as many insights into the culture as possible.

It struck me though that this move by the NSK could mean they'll lose their public interest status after all and turn into a private corporation, no longer under the supervision of the Mombusho.

Coincidentally, the night before I was talking to an older customer at work about sumo and got him interested. He happened to be one that liked sumo when it still was available on eurosport, but didn't care about it the moment it wasn't offered him on a plate anymore. So when I said to him that nowadays you could watch all fights on a database, thanks to the work of mainly one man putting all bouts separately on youtube, he said he was going to check it out asap. He even sticked around to watch some nice bouts on my smartphone that I had promised him, but I got nothing but black snow on the screen. So he eventually went away saying "I will check them out at home" and we changed e-mail addresses and I said him to contact me on this forum.

Just to say that when finally I found a fellow Belgian that possibly could get into sumo, this happens. He's the first Belgian I met that I could talk about sumo with for more than 5 minutes before I saw starting his eyes rolling. He actively showed interest as he talked about the cultural aspect he also liked. I warned him that the sumo officials and fanbase aren't very keen on foreigners, all without even knowing what just had happened.

Ok, so I think we can all officially agree that our powder is now wet.

Which is too bad. I echo ALL of the sentiments as listed above, and the tone of my original post, all the way up there, stands as written.

Screw'em. Just on principle alone.

At least I won't have to get up at 3:00 a.m. to catch the action anymore.

...............................................

So, waddya want to do now? Anyone bring cards? Monopoly? Scrabble? Netflix?

I've got about 2500 board games waiting to be played. You're all invited to visit Belgium. :-P

You do? (Scratching chin...) Please take care to post your exact address and the times you are planning to go for a longer vacation...

Oh, but they are under strong protection. You have to pass a fence, my super villain dog, several locked doors and enter a panic room to get access. On top of this all, I'm quite nomadic (we still live like that in Belgium), so my address changes from time to time, in order to stay under-radar. ;-)

[Vikanohara 171]

In desperation I digged in the jungle of the net and found the following temporary solution:

http://www.myniji.tv/

You have to download the software, register with email address, user name and password, activate the registration code and after activation log in with email address and password. Now you can watch several Japanese streaming TV's, among others NHK. Here in Hungary picture quality acceptable but little sluggish, however you can listen Japanese commentator and watch replays. Better than nothing.

Wow. That's great. Thank you.

Regardless of sumo, for a long time now I was looking for a possibility to watch Japanese TV streams, but couldn't find anything. This works. Brilliant. Aspect ratio is messed up with some channels though.

Back to sumo. What time does NHK G start with the sumo broadcast then?

A friend of mine has mentioned firstrow.eu as a possible solution. But as I am not a stream watcher (I hate all the nasty popups and stuff), I can't tell yet whether sumo can be found on it. It might be interesting if someone could create a discussion-free topic free of emotional flares to gather information about which channels to use to find worthwhile sumo information, as well free, for a small fee as for the ones that are Rockefeller relatives.

[Fukurou 534]

What was that part in the middle - something about something (the stream?) being 1000 yen and 104 yen. Google Translate mangled things, but part of its translation said "the video is US $ 1." What the heck are they talking about?

That section mentions the current exchange rate as $1 = ¥104, and if I'm not mistaken it talks about the unreserved all-day ticket for the Kokugikan which costs ¥15,000 (= ¥1,000 per day).

Thank you

[shimodahito 336]

good day all,

Thank you yorikiried-by-fate for a great trip down memory lane, and a mostly positive outlook on this dismal no-vid situation. Your memory is much better than mine....but maybe because I've been following this sport since the mid-1980s.

I remember when I thought the yahoo mail list was the only outside-of-japan source for results and sumo info. It was a well-attended group with vibrant discussions sometimes matching what the forums put out. Kintaro's musings were epic writings -- hats off and glasses raised!

I remember when Ken's sumo page was my only way to see videos. I still have the DVDs with matches of the Akebono era.

I remember finding the Bench Sumo group and the old sumo games web site. And getting on the old sumo games chaya room (or was it called heya chat?). Mostly people would brag or bitch about their bench sumo results, but for me it was a way to get "real time" info on who was winning and losing the bouts. Does this site still exist?

And of course there was (and still is) Joe's chat room. Still active, under the radar.

With the forums (SF & ST), it only got better. There are so many wonderful contributors that I will miss a name if I try to list them all -- (raise a glass to Kofuji here).

Now with no instant video, we pause. We breathe. We sleep at night.

The data base (hail, hail, cheers, cheers, to Doitsuyama, who I hope some day enters TORCH) will give the results.

And I will depend on the daily reports on Sumo Talk by the contributors for the details of each match mixed with clever, off-the-cuff commentary; delayed video posts as they become available; hope for the once-common posts of rikishi talk, kimarate summary, kensho count; and maybe revitalize some of the chat sites so those who are watching can pass on "real-time" descriptions of the action.

NSK is a terrible marketing agent of a great sport, so there may be a slow down of new fans, but the dedicated will prevail.

-shimodahito

p.s.... as for a video fix -- I know 3-4 Mongolian TV channels provide live coverage. I'm checking to see if any of the channels are available over the internet -- commentary will be in Mongolian.

[Couginishiki 33]

I wonder if talk like this could get him into trouble, openly sympathizing with something his bosses strive to eradicate.

I thought of that as well. If the kyokai pick up on it, sisho may bend his ear. I could be very much naive but, I am betting that Araibira's channel was actually a resource for some non-board oyakata and rikishi within the kyokai. I doubt anyone else had a remotely similar page up with archived bouts that a guy could use to study his opponents. Maybe not.

[Kintamayama 47,132]

The twitching came back, when I saw the donation requests. Plural. "Hey what", you are now saying to your screen, "is that Captain Hindsight?!" And you are probably right.

This uploading of the videos takes a lot of time. Araibira did it for 8 hours a day. I edited and wrote commentaries-many hours, believe me. It was our choice to "waste" our time on this. If the sumo watching community would have volunteered to donate to us for our time, that of course would have been better. But guess what? It never happened. So I asked for donations (no pressure, just if anyone thought my work and time was worth some acknowledgement) and received a few generous donations from select people who really cared. It wasn't going to make me rich, believe me. Araibira followed suit and he deserves every penny, every single penny for what he does. The requests would not have come if people would have offered them and not sat back and enjoyed the stuff without a second thought. It wasn't the donation request that brought Araibira down, otherwise I'd be down with him. I stand proudly by my donation request although I was truly ashamed to even ask.

[Takamisakari 1]

good day all,

Thank you yorikiried-by-fate for a great trip down memory lane, and a mostly positive outlook on this dismal no-vid situation. Your memory is much better than mine....but maybe because I've been following this sport since the mid-1980s.

I remember when I thought the yahoo mail list was the only outside-of-japan source for results and sumo info. It was a well-attended group with vibrant discussions sometimes matching what the forums put out. Kintaro's musings were epic writings -- hats off and glasses raised!

I remember when Ken's sumo page was my only way to see videos. I still have the DVDs with matches of the Akebono era.

I remember finding the Bench Sumo group and the old sumo games web site. And getting on the old sumo games chaya room (or was it called heya chat?). Mostly people would brag or bitch about their bench sumo results, but for me it was a way to get "real time" info on who was winning and losing the bouts. Does this site still exist?

And of course there was (and still is) Joe's chat room. Still active, under the radar.

With the forums (SF & ST), it only got better. There are so many wonderful contributors that I will miss a name if I try to list them all -- (raise a glass to Kofuji here).

Now with no instant video, we pause. We breathe. We sleep at night.

The data base (hail, hail, cheers, cheers, to Doitsuyama, who I hope some day enters TORCH) will give the results.

And I will depend on the daily reports on Sumo Talk by the contributors for the details of each match mixed with clever, off-the-cuff commentary; delayed video posts as they become available; hope for the once-common posts of rikishi talk, kimarate summary, kensho count; and maybe revitalize some of the chat sites so those who are watching can pass on "real-time" descriptions of the action.

NSK is a terrible marketing agent of a great sport, so there may be a slow down of new fans, but the dedicated will prevail.

-shimodahito

p.s.... as for a video fix -- I know 3-4 Mongolian TV channels provide live coverage. I'm checking to see if any of the channels are available over the internet -- commentary will be in Mongolian.

Brilliant idea. And it's working. Totally legal.

http://www.ubs.mn/ubslive1.php

Poor country. Poor but watchable. Funny mongolian commentators.

Viva Mongolia!

[Kintamayama 47,132]

good day all,

Thank you yorikiried-by-fate for a great trip down memory lane, and a mostly positive outlook on this dismal no-vid situation. Your memory is much better than mine....but maybe because I've been following this sport since the mid-1980s.

I remember when I thought the yahoo mail list was the only outside-of-japan source for results and sumo info. It was a well-attended group with vibrant discussions sometimes matching what the forums put out. Kintaro's musings were epic writings -- hats off and glasses raised!

I remember when Ken's sumo page was my only way to see videos. I still have the DVDs with matches of the Akebono era.

I remember finding the Bench Sumo group and the old sumo games web site. And getting on the old sumo games chaya room (or was it called heya chat?). Mostly people would brag or bitch about their bench sumo results, but for me it was a way to get "real time" info on who was winning and losing the bouts. Does this site still exist?

And of course there was (and still is) Joe's chat room. Still active, under the radar.

With the forums (SF & ST), it only got better. There are so many wonderful contributors that I will miss a name if I try to list them all -- (raise a glass to Kofuji here).

Now with no instant video, we pause. We breathe. We sleep at night.

The data base (hail, hail, cheers, cheers, to Doitsuyama, who I hope some day enters TORCH) will give the results.

And I will depend on the daily reports on Sumo Talk by the contributors for the details of each match mixed with clever, off-the-cuff commentary; delayed video posts as they become available; hope for the once-common posts of rikishi talk, kimarate summary, kensho count; and maybe revitalize some of the chat sites so those who are watching can pass on "real-time" descriptions of the action.

NSK is a terrible marketing agent of a great sport, so there may be a slow down of new fans, but the dedicated will prevail.

-shimodahito

p.s.... as for a video fix -- I know 3-4 Mongolian TV channels provide live coverage. I'm checking to see if any of the channels are available over the internet -- commentary will be in Mongolian.

Brilliant idea. And it's working. Totally legal.

http://www.ubs.mn/ubslive1.php

Poor country. Poor but watchable. Funny mongolian commentators.

Viva Mongolia!

It's about 4 minutes earlier than the NIJI feed..

Edited January 17, 2014 by Kintamayama

[Asojima 2,874]

Brilliant idea. And it's working. Totally legal.

http://www.ubs.mn/ubslive1.php

Poor country. Poor but watchable. Funny mongolian commentators.

Viva Mongolia!

I can get it with Firefox, but I come up with a blank screen under IE11 in both Windows 7 and 8.1. It is running a few seconds ahead of TVJapan. Edited January 17, 2014 by Asojima

[torquato 1,075]

I wonder if talk like this could get him into trouble, openly sympathizing with something his bosses strive to eradicate.

Either he doesn't think so or doesn't care. Today he was retweeting Araibiras twitter announcement of his new channel and recap of the day. Plus retweeting a picture saying "Please bring back NSK free live stream!" https://twitter.com/lden_a/status/424135571246555136/photo/1

I'm sure that he is very aware of what this means to us because of his family and friends back in Egypt who are now equally cut off.

[Couginishiki 33]

I wonder if talk like this could get him into trouble, openly sympathizing with something his bosses strive to eradicate.

I'm sure that he is very aware of what this means to us because of his family and friends back in Egypt who are now equally cut off.

Good point. I was myopically wondering what his motivation was in favor of advocating for it.

[Hakuyobaku 33]

Hi. Sharing the grief of all the Pirate Party members here, one has to think that this was coming anyway, the situation as was was quite atypical for any sport and. Everyone has to regroup now.

Reason I am posting is that - is the best option for araibira, kintamayama, or other fujis and kazes (and again - thanks for your efforts) not uploading vids to youtube and sharing its link only here on the forum? (i.e. non-members cannot see the link). Is this not a common practice? I am sure IPB has that option (only members can see the link or somesuch). Same on youtube, you can upload 'privately' I believe way back when when a french sumo site had videos it had that principle. This way videos will stay 'undetected' and anyway most of us who would watch those vids are registered here. It would take away the database linking component but hell, better than 120 dollar a day?

Edited January 17, 2014 by Hakuyobaku

[yorikiried by fate 2,038]

I totally forgot about the French site...