Natsu 2025 discussion (results)

[Kintamayama 46,751]

43 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Onosato to be promoted to yokozuna-ozeki, Daieisho won't be promoted even if he wins out

Do you think there is even a remote chance that he will be promoted with a 12-3 due to shortage of Ozekis? Happened before..

[dingo 1,454]

17 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Houshouryuu said in an interview a few days ago that he will stop with the niramiai stuff after being criticized for it in the press and by my mom. We shall see.

I don't mind the occasional niramiai, in fact I love it. But Hoshoryu is overdoing it. Maybe that's his way of getting fired up for the bout, but it's getting annoying. 

[Koorifuu 1,099]

I don't remember the last time Hoshoryu slammed his fists down before his opponent.

[RabidJohn 2,010]

Mono-ii are often debatable, but I've come to regard them in the same light as safety cars in motor racing: they interrupt proceedings and change things around, often to the satisfaction of very few. And there's bugger all I can do about it.

I can't decide whether Onosato is being hesitant or just a bit cautious. I can well understand the latter, because the weight of expectation must be huge.

[Jakusotsu 6,320]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

I can't decide whether Onosato is being hesitant or just a bit cautious. I can well understand the latter, because the weight of expectation must be huge.

He did exactly what was necessary today, no need for more. It reminded me of those exhibition matches against pre-school kids with Ichiyamamoto yearning for mommy before the bout even began.

[dingo 1,454]

For me the mono-ii process seems similar to VAR in football. It usually takes time, deflates the atmosphere somewhat, depends on the human factor and therfore despite extra reviews still sometimes gets decisions wrong. Come to think of it, did football copy this from sumo? 

In the end I'm still for video reviews, as usually they help to correct mistakes, provided the rules are applied consistently and clearly. Which is not always the case. 

[rhyen 1,856]

On 14/05/2025 at 00:34, RabidJohn said:

Standing room only on the hype train...

I've been wondering, and I'm sure someone hereabouts will know. What is the raising-a-yokuzuna-from-scratch-in-a-new-heya speedrun record, and could Nishonoseki beat it?

I supposed Miyagino vs Isegahama in recent history?

[rhyen 1,856]

On 16/05/2025 at 02:17, dingo said:

Aonishiki is a joy to watch, pulling out tricks left and right. Like Yamanashi, I wonder where he picked up the uchimuso. If that's something that came to him naturally then he's really a formidable technical talent. I'm really looking forward to watching his sumo for years to come. 

His shisho is Aminishiki…

[rhyen 1,856]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Do you think there is even a remote chance that he will be promoted with a 12-3 due to shortage of Ozekis? Happened before..

Not in the opinion of Isegahama oyakata. Besides, having 2 Yokozuna (who can never be permanently relegated) means the banzuke will have 2 Y HD even if Kotozakura mysteriously intai?

[rhyen 1,856]

I am not sure if it comes across in the Juryo broadcast, Mita like to flex his whole body flexibility like he is some sort of yoga master. Especially his final back arc when facing his opponent before they start. The only thing missing is Harumafuji’s low crouch.

Kotoeiho is mimicking Abi’s high shiko which thrills the crowd. 

[Yamanashi 4,040]

8 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

My video has two different angles showing quite clearly that Kirishima's elbow was down first. The explanation of others is that Takerufuji was dead body anyway. I don't buy that. In todays's video, I'll show an instance when the exact same thing went the other way.

Now, suddenly, I saw something I didn't see before which may or may not result in egg on my face. Kirishima's elbow.. It's on the tawara, not on the clay just yet, so maybe Takerufuji was down firsr after all, although a tie would have been appropriate. 

Oops..

This drives me nuts.  I re-watched Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings recently, and when the Balrog fell down into the abyss, but caught Gandalf's ankle with his whip, I was thinking, "Would that really constitute the dead body rule?

[Asashosakari 20,131]

3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

He did exactly what was necessary today, no need for more. It reminded me of those exhibition matches against pre-school kids with Ichiyamamoto yearning for mommy before the bout even began.

Exactly. Lots of rikishi could stand to use a more measured approach when facing Ura and Ichiyamamoto, like Onosato just did.

[Kintamayama 46,751]

23 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Exactly. Lots of rikishi could stand to use a more measured approach when facing Ura and Ichiyamamoto, like Onosato just did.

These last two days he has a look of relief and a wry smile  he didn't have in the other days after the bouts. I see that as a sure sign that he was being extra careful and not taking any chances.

Edited May 20 by Kintamayama

[dingo 1,454]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

This drives me nuts.  I re-watched Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Rings recently, and when the Balrog fell down into the abyss, but caught Gandalf's ankle with his whip, I was thinking, "Would that really constitute the dead body rule?

Since they fought again after falling down, I guess the Balrog got a torinaoshi. Didn't help him much though. 

[Andreas21 210]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Do you think there is even a remote chance that he will be promoted with a 12-3 due to shortage of Ozekis? Happened before..

The really remote chance is that Daieisho wins out which includes a win against Onosato, Horshoryu, Kotozakura. Ending on such a high note, defeating the existing and promoted Yokozuna, a Goeido-like promotion with 32 is in the cards, I would even say, likely.

We will never know because he doesn't.

[Asapedroryu 243]

The real test for Onosato should be the next 5 days as everyone he faced so far is having a bad tournament. Apart from Abi that is now doing better, the rest has 4 or less wins. The next 5 all have positive records and can actually defeat him. Let's see.

[Kotoroiwa 70]

47 minutes ago, dingo said:

Since they fought again after falling down, I guess the Balrog got a torinaoshi. Didn't help him much though. 

Well, he did achieve azukari or should it have been an itamiwake as both perished? Hikiwake most likely doesn't apply here. I miss these options. Not that I ever saw personally any of those. I'm not that old.

[dingo 1,454]

44 minutes ago, Kotoroiwa said:

Well, he did achieve azukari or should it have been an itamiwake as both perished? Hikiwake most likely doesn't apply here. I miss these options. Not that I ever saw personally any of those. I'm not that old.

Hmm, tough call but I'd call it a double itamiwake followed by both participants' intai. Although Gandalf later reentered with a new shikona. 

[MrGrumpyGills 171]

1 hour ago, dingo said:

Hmm, tough call but I'd call it a double itamiwake followed by both participants' intai. Although Gandalf later reentered with a new shikona. 

I hope you're happy, because now I won't ever be able to watch these movies again without thinking about sumo

[Reonito 1,747]

19 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

As far as I'm concerned Takerufuji was completely flipped over and did pretty much nothing that actually contributed to Kirishima touching down first, so right call regardless of whether the mono-ii explanation made sense or fit with what they "usually" say. It might be a different matter if the momentum of the whole tussle had actually taken Kirishima out of the ring because then you could make a case for Takerufuji's previous pushing having contributed to it, but what actually transpired IMHO gets called for the rikishi in Kirishima's position at least 90 out of 100 times.

What was the main difference between that bout and Kotoshoho vs. Tochitaikai today? Just the fact that gunbai went the other way initially?

[Reonito 1,747]

15 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Now I'm convinced- the concept of a leg on the tawara and remaining inside is obvious. But an elbow on the tawara? Technically, he's in.

Wait, really? An elbow on the tawara is different from an elbow on the dirt inside the dohyo? I thought if you touched anything with anything other than the sole of your foot, you lose.

[Reonito 1,747]

11 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Do you think there is even a remote chance that he will be promoted with a 12-3 due to shortage of Ozekis? Happened before..

If he goes 12-3, he'll have beaten the entire sanyaku except WTK, including 3 Y/O in the final 4 days, so if they're feeling generous and want to reward his consistency, I don't think it's out of the question. I'd say the probability of him winning out is lower than the probability that they'll promote him if he does.

[mugatake 59]

16 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Where is that stated? I'd like to see the rule written. It makes sense, but is it? It very rarely happens, but is it a rule, the tawara being part of the ground? If it is, then I'm looking increasingly borderline,  but will stubbornly be back to my original mode, where I maintain Kirishima lost.

Moti, you may be right. It looks like the official sumo rules (相撲規則勝負規定) refer to a loss being determined by a rikishi making contact with the sand, rather than more broadly "the dohyou":

第6条   土俵内において足の裏以外の体の一部が早く砂についた者を負けとする。

第7条   土俵外の砂に体の一部でも早くついた者を負けとする。

 

Very very strange, and I've never heard of any part of this before. Would the shinpan seriously consider this distinction?

[Katooshu 3,464]

I might kinda feel bad for Takerufuji, but he's also benefitted from two very generous calls that I thought should have gone against him - the one below vs Ichiyamamoto and also a prior vs Onokatsu - so maybe this is the universe's balancing act. 

[mugatake 59]

23 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Not that it can be trusted without question, but in consulting ChatGPT, it too seems to believe that touching the tawara with another part of the body other than the bottom of the feet is still considered in, provided balance is maintained (and not shinitai). 

If this is indeed true, mind officially blown.