Nagoya 2024 discussion (results)

[dingo 1,388]

Nishikigi finally got that elusive first win and did so in style, throwing Bushozan like a sack of potatoes. Nishikigi did so well today, it's as if the first eight days of suffering were erased from his mind.

Endo also has come alive in the past few days after a lethargic start, making sending out Oshoma look easy. That injured finger has completely changed Oshoma's quality and he'll be lucky to get a kachikoshi this basho.

Wakatakakage took his time mostly because Kinbozan resisted so well, but made his experience count in the end. After a long time away from makuuchi a solid kachikoshi is not far away.

Midorifuji's winning technique was oshidashi but there's a katasukashi hidden inside there because the shoulder area pull was what made Kotoshoho lose balance in the first place.

Oho doing well to exploit Shodai's usually slow and upright tachiai. A small Japanese guy was almost crushed under Shodai falling out of the dohyo, but he got lucky this time. That would've given some extra work for the paramedics...

Wakamotoharu is really alternating between good and bad days this basho. Today he was blown out by Takanosho whom he should be able to handle on a regular day. A return to sanyaku is doubtful at this rate.

Onosato had perhaps too much belief in his ability to resist Gonoyama's explosive tachiai. Not much margin anymore if he wants to get at least double digits to continue a semblance of an ozeki run, and plenty of dangerous opposition ahead, starting with Kotozakura tomorrow. With Takakeisho and Kirishima likely vacating their ozeki spots and Terunofuji not far from intai, now would be his perfect moment to claim an ozeki spot but a bad start to the basho and perhaps too many yusho celebrations can derail this run. 

After the first third of the basho I thought Abi is on track to lose his sekiwake spot but he is twisting and turning and pulling his way into keeping it. Anything can still happen but right now I'd give him a better chance of keeping his rank than losing it. 

Hoshoryu had a clever plan to outsmart Tobizaru before the latter can start pulling tricks on him and he executed it perfectly. Excellent HNH to stay at least mathematically in the yusho race. 

Great resisting power again by Kotozakura. I didn't think he'd have the strength to start pushing from a slightly disadvantageous upright position against a shorter and lower positioned opponent, but he did and once he got a bit of momentum he maintained a strong grip and sent Hiradoumi out. Very solid ozeki sumo today. 

Takakeisho the bulldozer getting a second quick win in a row! Either he's suddenly feeling better or he finally woke up and is extra motivated to get to the required eight wins. Though I guess motivation has never been an issue for Takakeisho so there must be a health component to his strong showing these two days. 

Now that was a serious challenge for the yokozuna but Terunofuji handled Daieisho's full charges well and seems to be heading towards his 10th yusho. Still a few tough bouts ahead, especially Kotozakura who is probably thinking that he could have a real yusho chance if not for the pesky yokozuna suddenly turning up healthy. 

[Calamityama 24]

51 minutes ago, dingo said:

That was a serious challenge for the yokozuna but Terunofuji handled Daieisho's full charges well and seems to be heading towards his 10th yusho. Still a few tough bouts ahead, especially Kotozakura who is probably thinking that he could have a real yusho chance if not for the pesky yokozuna suddenly turning up healthy. 

Had a talk with a nurse/physical therapist this morning, he saidTerunofuji is looking healthy this basho, good muscles distribution in his upper body and legs, not much fat at belly level, a good sign for someone that big and suffering from diabetes. 

[Tochinofuji 390]

10 hours ago, incognito said:

Odds Terunofuji retires after getting his 10th, especially if it's a zensho or near? I've only experienced Hakuho retiring and can see why he'd go for more, but also why you'd want to go out with a bang

I think there's a good chance we won't see him complete another basho again if he does get his 10th yusho, but also think we're more likely to see him waiting in the wings and going kyujo for a while so he can fill the role of a yokozuna off the dohyo until someone else steps up to take the rope, rather than an immediate retirement. 

[dingo 1,388]

36 minutes ago, Tochinofuji said:

I think there's a good chance we won't see him complete another basho again if he does get his 10th yusho, but also think we're more likely to see him waiting in the wings and going kyujo for a while so he can fill the role of a yokozuna off the dohyo until someone else steps up to take the rope, rather than an immediate retirement. 

But what would be the point of waiting if he wouldn't intend to compete again? The Kyokai and the YDC want to see a competing yokozuna and if I put myself in Terunofuji's place, I'd rather retire with a yusho, not with hounds on my heels. If he thinks he might have a yusho or two more in him, then I'd understand waiting. 

[Tochinofuji 390]

1 hour ago, dingo said:

But what would be the point of waiting if he wouldn't intend to compete again? The Kyokai and the YDC want to see a competing yokozuna and if I put myself in Terunofuji's place, I'd rather retire with a yusho, not with hounds on my heels. If he thinks he might have a yusho or two more in him, then I'd understand waiting. 

I mean, aside from probably another 6 months to a year of yokozuna pay? I feel like they do want a competing yokozuna, but no yokozuna at all feels like it brings its own problems. I think there would be a certain acceptance of him hanging around symbolically.

That said, this wouldn't be the first and won't be the last time I've misread such things (assuming I'm wrong) so I wouldn't exactly wager a steak on my take. 

 

Addendum: for clarity, I don't mean to say that he'd be hanging around to milk the NSK for cash or implying anything untoward in that respect - I think it would be about the symbolism of having a yokozuna in place. The paycheque just doesn't hurt. 

Edited July 22, 2024 by Tochinofuji
Added addendum

[Octofuji 387]

If Terunofuiji and Kotozakura keep winning I hope they match them up on Day 14. I expect Terunofuiji would win the following day anyway but it would add some spice to the Y-O match.

 

[itchyknee 60]

4 hours ago, Tochinofuji said:

I mean, aside from probably another 6 months to a year of yokozuna pay? I feel like they do want a competing yokozuna, but no yokozuna at all feels like it brings its own problems. I think there would be a certain acceptance of him hanging around symbolically.

That said, this wouldn't be the first and won't be the last time I've misread such things (assuming I'm wrong) so I wouldn't exactly wager a steak on my take. 

  

Addendum: for clarity, I don't mean to say that he'd be hanging around to milk the NSK for cash or implying anything untoward in that respect - I think it would be about the symbolism of having a yokozuna in place. The paycheque just doesn't hurt.  

Most recent tournaments without Yokozunas: May 1931 - October 1932, and July 1992 - January 1993. Most recently Hakuho's hanging on for the delayed summer Olympics of 2021 gave just enough time for our current guy to get promoted.

Would being Yokozuna-less be good, or bad, marketing? I could see people being excited to see who is able to break out of the Ozeki rank first.

[Washuyama 648]

36 minutes ago, itchyknee said:

Would being Yokozuna-less be good, or bad, marketing?

It would be very risky, as you would only be two total meltdown basho by the ozeki for there to be a banzuke completely without Yokozuna or Ozeki...

[Tochinofuji 390]

57 minutes ago, itchyknee said:

Most recent tournaments without Yokozunas: May 1931 - October 1932, and July 1992 - January 1993. Most recently Hakuho's hanging on for the delayed summer Olympics of 2021 gave just enough time for our current guy to get promoted.

Would being Yokozuna-less be good, or bad, marketing? I could see people being excited to see who is able to break out of the Ozeki rank first.

I can see it cutting either way, but I feel like the marketing/narrative preference is a passing of the torch rather than it being dropped and the next guy happening by to pick it up. 

Ultimately though, I think it's a narrative that likely really only matters to those of us to whom they really don't need to market. Those of us that care are already invested, and those they would need to win over likely aren't phased by the presence or lack of a yokozuna. But I may also underestimate the economic importance of more casual or passing fans. 

[Kishinoyama 603]

1 hour ago, itchyknee said:

....and July 1992 - January 1993. 

Would being Yokozuna-less be good, or bad, marketing? I could see people being excited to see who is able to break out of the Ozeki rank first.

People were very excited during the time quoted above. That was the Waka/Taka boom with Akebono of course getting the yokozuna promotion. You had the regular sumo followers plus some new foreigner fans interested in Akebono and soon after Musashimaru. Then you had the girls who were nuts over the Hanada brothers. It 'might' have been the most popular time in sumo history. 

[Octofuji 387]

7 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

People were very excited during the time quoted above. That was the Waka/Taka boom with Akebono of course getting the yokozuna promotion. You had the regular sumo followers plus some new foreigner fans interested in Akebono and soon after Musashimaru. Then you had the girls who were nuts over the Hanada brothers. It 'might' have been the most popular time in sumo history. 

If Onosato and Takerufuji fulfil their promise then we might be in for something similar, especially with both being Japanese 

Edited July 23, 2024 by Octofuji
Spelling

[Sumo Spiffy 621]

4 hours ago, Octofuji said:

If Terunofuiji and Kotozakura keep winning I hope they match them up on Day 14. I expect Terunofuiji would win the following day anyway but it would add some spice to the Y-O match.

If the two highest ranked guys are also the two best performing, leave it for day 15. I mean, how often does that happen nowadays?

Besides, if they both keep winning, it would mean Koto could make a statement with a 13-2 while Teru fights for a zensho. That's pretty compelling too.

[Reonito 1,613]

21 hours ago, Oskanohana said:

We might even get a S3w rather easily (think Takakeisho demoted, the 3 incumbent keeping their ranks and just one of the komusubis getting to 10 wins

It takes 11 to create an extra slot.

[yorikiried by fate 2,035]

21 hours ago, Oskanohana said:

Terunofuji surely wants that black background on his name at the Supermegahypersumograph. @yorikiried by fate, prepare the brushes.

You got it. I also started taking measurements for the bigger era name font size.

It's so hype.

[Oskanohana 297]

6 minutes ago, Reonito said:

It takes 11 to create an extra slot.

Yup, you're absoutely right. I had the 10 number in my head because of the O-S-O run by Kirishima and it has nothing to do with it. Today's komusubi losses make the S3 sighting very difficult now.

 

Onto other things, is the kyokai going to field a synchronized swimming team for the olympics? This lower sanyaku may have a chance at a medal.

5-4	Abi	S	Onosato	5-4
5-4	Kirishima	S
5-4	Daieisho	K	Hiradoumi	5-4

[just_some_guy 294]

3 hours ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

If the two highest ranked guys are also the two best performing, leave it for day 15. I mean, how often does that happen nowadays?

Besides, if they both keep winning, it would mean Koto could make a statement with a 13-2 while Teru fights for a zensho. That's pretty compelling too.

Just my preference of course, but I'd rather the two best dudes go at it when the yusho hasn't been decided yet (provided both are still in it). If Terunofuji is 13-0 and Kotozakura is 11-2 and no one else is meaningfully in the yusho race... seems anticlimactic to wait until the bout is moot.

When it was a Yokozuna vs. Yokozuna match, yeah, saving it for day 15 made sense because that's special no matter what the race looks like.

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

8 hours ago, Washuyama said:

It would be very risky, as you would only be two total meltdown basho by the ozeki for there to be a banzuke completely without Yokozuna or Ozeki...

Would never happen as two Okzeki are mandatory, no matter whom they have to promote.

(...or so they say...might just be another urban legend to go poof...)

[dingo 1,388]

4 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Would never happen as two Okzeki are mandatory, no matter whom they have to promote.

(...or so they say...might just be another urban legend to go poof...)

"Oh no, we've ran out of ozeki... Ura, it's your turn now! Show us what you can do." 

- nobody at the Kyokai. 

 

 

[Morty 1,517]

9 hours ago, itchyknee said:

Most recent tournaments without Yokozunas: May 1931 - October 1932, and July 1992 - January 1993. Most recently Hakuho's hanging on for the delayed summer Olympics of 2021 gave just enough time for our current guy to get promoted.

Would being Yokozuna-less be good, or bad, marketing? I could see people being excited to see who is able to break out of the Ozeki rank first.

If they marketed it right it could be a bonanza. Do it like it's a race to be the next Yokozuna, who will it be to achieve one of the hardest feats in world sport?!?!? Kotozakura, Onosato, Takerefuji, Hoshoryu, or somebody else? (I don't think the other Ozeki are really in the mix). In pro wrestling they always say the money is in the chase. Of course, it's the Kyokai so they would be absolutely guaranteed to stuff that campaign up, and the YDC wouldn't help by making regular statements about how nobody is worthy etc. 

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

Takerufuji out again. 

[itchyknee 60]

8 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

People were very excited during the time quoted above. That was the Waka/Taka boom with Akebono of course getting the yokozuna promotion. You had the regular sumo followers plus some new foreigner fans interested in Akebono and soon after Musashimaru. Then you had the girls who were nuts over the Hanada brothers. It 'might' have been the most popular time in sumo history. 

I was hoping for feedback from someone in the know about what was going on then. Thanks Kishinoyama.

[Akinomaki 41,183]

That is the Kokonoe decision style - torinaoshi would be the usual way, because Takakeisho was the aggressor and it is not desirable to condemn him to sekiwake by shimpan decision - but his hand was down first and apparently they were late - rather Kokonoe wants to leave early

Edited July 23, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Leoben 159]

Is two wins enough to keep Takerufuji in Juryo or is he still at risk of dropping to the unsalaried ranks? If yes, also wondering if the plan all along was for him to enter, do just enough to keep his rank, and then exit and continue to rest up.

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

10 minutes ago, Leoben said:

Is two wins enough to keep Takerufuji in Juryo or is he still at risk of dropping to the unsalaried ranks? If yes, also wondering if the plan all along was for him to enter, do just enough to keep his rank, and then exit and continue to rest up.

He is safe.

 

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

21 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

That is the Kokonoe decision style - torinaoshi would be the usual way, because Takakeisho was the aggressor and it is not desirable to condemn him to sekiwake by shimpan decision - but his hand was down first and apparently they were late - rather Kokonoe wants to leave early

Takakeisho's hand was clearly down first, and Abi wasn't dead because his foot was still on the tawara.