Natsu 2024 discussion (results)

[Tigerboy1966 1,429]

1 minute ago, Godango said:

I've felt like Hiradoumi has been a dark horse for a while now. Quietly achieving, slowly rising, he's still only 24 after all. It's good to see him making some small waves here. 

I'm not necessarily saying he's going to be O/Y one day, but he's got a good body and he's capable of sticking around the joi/sanyaki for many years at the very least. 

Yup. I've been following him since his makushita days. He lost an "exchange" bout to Daishoho in 2021 and his reaction was priceless as he yelled out something that might be politely translated as "oh gosh darn". Not much in the way of hinkaku I thought, but this kid really, really wants it. I can see him having an Ikioi/Okinoumi style career, bobbing between upper maegashira and lower sanjaku. I would love it if he went further though.

[Akinomaki 40,236]

41 minutes ago, Oskanohana said:

My guess is that after the Bushozan-Bushoyama fiasco by Kokonoe, there's no way they're calling a mono-ii involving this rikishi. His name is impossible to read properly, so whatever the gyoji says, it will stand.

There was more: Bushozan forgot to get the kachi-nanori after the bout, thought he might have lost and was about to leave the dohyo, but was called back by the gyoji to be properly named the winner. http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2024/05/24/0017690807.shtml

[Reonito 1,389]

51 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Having umpteen guys in contention for the yusho going in to last weekend is lots of fun... and yet... I can't help being deeply disappointed by the standards of sumo on show. I mean Kotozakura, really? The numbers say he's a worthy ozeki but he doesn't pass the eye test. I mean, what is actually good about his sumo? What are his strengths? What does he do to win his bouts? Maybe I'm just missing the subtleties.

I feel like we're about a dozen top-division-caliber guys short. A bunch of lower Makuuchi should be in Juryo, a bunch of Juryo should be in Makushita.

[Yukiarashi 195]

2 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Is it possible to be both excited and depressed at the same time?

Having umpteen guys in contention for the yusho going in to last weekend is lots of fun... and yet... I can't help being deeply disappointed by the standards of sumo on show. I mean Kotozakura, really? The numbers say he's a worthy ozeki but he doesn't pass the eye test. I mean, what is actually good about his sumo? What are his strengths? What does he do to win his bouts? Maybe I'm just missing the subtleties.

While I've loved parity there's been the past six years, a lot of the basho are really starting to feel like this the last couple of years. It doesn't feel like anyone is winning some of these basho it feels like someone just doesn't lose it. Natsu 22, Hatsu 23, Aki 23, and this basho are some that I remember feeling particularly sad. 

Agree about Kotozakura, it almost seems like somethings wrong with him this time though like he would have gone kyujo if he wasn't in yusho contention. I guess you could say it's an Ozeki quality to be "winning ugly" but his last three wins before today should have been losses. Between that and the henka today it's unbelievable he's in the lead right now. 

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

I feel like we're about a dozen top-division-caliber guys short. A bunch of lower Makuuchi should be in Juryo, a bunch of Juryo should be in Makushita.

I've really felt this for a while, Azumaryu going 9-6 in Makuuchi last January is when I really started noticing this.

Edited May 24, 2024 by Yukiarashi

[sahaven111 176]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

I feel like we're about a dozen top-division-caliber guys short. A bunch of lower Makuuchi should be in Juryo, a bunch of Juryo should be in Makushita.

Well, that's because we are. An unprecedented number of this generation's rikishi had their careers ruined through scandal and/or injury... or at least it seems that way...

[Tigerboy1966 1,429]

1 hour ago, Reonito said:

I feel like we're about a dozen top-division-caliber guys short. A bunch of lower Makuuchi should be in Juryo, a bunch of Juryo should be in Makushita.

Yup. You can draw a line under maegashira 11. The guys below this line wouldn't have been in the top division 10 years back. So what went wrong? Are certain wrestlers being artificially pushed when they don't have the talent to justify their position? Are some wrestlers being kept back because their faces (or nationalities) don't fit?

Just pass me the can opener, I have some worms.

Edited May 24, 2024 by Tigerboy1966
clarify

[Sakura 1,487]

3 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

This basho will finish with - at best - the second-fewest intra-sanyaku matches in the 15-day era. If there's reason to scrap Onosato-Abi for Day 15 (or, less likely, Hoshoryu-Kotozakura), it may still tie for the least. So far, Hoshoryu-Wakamotoharu is the only one not realized despite the availability of both rikishi, the rest of the potential 36-match slate succumbed to all the kyujo.

The 2020s feature prominently at the bottom of that list,

[Katooshu 3,182]

26 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Yup. You can draw a line under maegashira 11. The guys below this line wouldn't have been in the top division 10 years back. So what went wrong? Are certain wrestlers being artificially pushed when they don't have the talent to justify their position? Are some wrestlers being kept back because their faces (or nationalities) don't fit?

Just pass me the can opener, I have some worms.

Are you Chris Sumo? 

I must admit I don't understand your post. 

Artificially pushed as in being ranked too high relative to their results? Artificially pushed as in using performance enhancers? Anyone in mind?

Being kept back as in not being promoted as high as their performance merits? Being treated unfairly by gyoji/shimpan? Not afforded the same training opportunities? 

Edited May 25, 2024 by Katooshu

[Bunbukuchagama 706]

1 hour ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Yup. You can draw a line under maegashira 11. The guys below this line wouldn't have been in the top division 10 years back. So what went wrong? Are certain wrestlers being artificially pushed when they don't have the talent to justify their position? Are some wrestlers being kept back because their faces (or nationalities) don't fit?

Just pass me the can opener, I have some worms.

Do you think JSA artificially holds back foreign rikishi? 

I will agree that they do everything in their power to make joining ozumo as difficult as possible for them, but once they are in - how exactly are they being held back?

[Reonito 1,389]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

I will agree that they do everything in their power to make joining ozumo as difficult as possible for them

And this, combined with the lessened appeal of sumo lifestyle/career among the young in Japan, is presumably responsible for the apparent drop in quality, on top of any random fluctuations.

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,262]

There are always forgettable guys in lower Makuuchi if you only pay attention to top divisions. Its just been a while since then so you forgot them.

[Asashosakari 19,138]

55 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

There are always forgettable guys in lower Makuuchi if you only pay attention to top divisions. Its just been a while since then so you forgot them.

And the meta level, forgetting why you'd forgotten them. 10 years from now, somebody here will be browsing old banzuke, come across the names of the likes of Churanoumi or Mitoryu and fondly go, "oh yeah, I remember those guys!", failing to also remember how little they actually cared about them at the time.

Inasmuch as there's any qualitative difference to the past in lower makuuchi at all, it's almost certainly just that more guys are competing injured more often now and looking worse as a result. With some "I don't like the way sumo matches are mostly won nowadays, so these guys must be worse" nostalgia-pretending-to-be-analysis sprinkled on top of it.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Asashosakari

[Katooshu 3,182]

Baraki, man of few cm, must be retiring - greeted with flowers after winning to get his KK.

Edited May 25, 2024 by Katooshu

[incognito 2]

7 hours ago, Oskanohana said:

My guess is that after the Bushozan-Bushoyama fiasco by Kokonoe, there's no way they're calling a mono-ii involving this rikishi. His name is impossible to read properly, so whatever the gyoji says, it will stand.

What happened? I tried googling and searching on here, but nothing.

[Bunbukuchagama 706]

14 minutes ago, incognito said:

What happened? I tried googling and searching on here, but nothing.

Kanji can have different pronunciations. 

[incognito 2]

7 minutes ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

Kanji can have different pronunciations. 

So the gyoji pronounced it incorrectly and Bushozan got it instead of the other guy? Sorry if I'm being dense.

[Bunbukuchagama 706]

Just now, incognito said:

So the gyoji pronounced it incorrectly and Bushozan got it instead of the other guy? Sorry if I'm being dense.

Bushoyama doesn't exist. It was just imbarrassing to hear a name mispronounced.

[rhyen 1,828]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

Baraki, man of few cm, must be retiring - greeted with flowers after winning to get his KK.

He also received a bouquet outside the kokugikan just now 

[rhyen 1,828]

On 21/05/2024 at 14:46, Akinomaki said:

I have to reverse my praise for the new shimpan top - Kokonoe is really not up to it. Kagayaki-Bushozan : "...sashi-chigae de, eh, Busho -zan, iya, Bushoyama no kachi to itashimasu, ..., Bushoyama no kachi to itashimasu, -zan,..."

 

1 hour ago, incognito said:

What happened? I tried googling and searching on here, but nothing.

 

[Tigerboy1966 1,429]

5 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Are you Chris Sumo?

Blown my cover has been!

[rhyen 1,828]

A lot of great battles in the 2nd half. 

[Akinomaki 40,236]

So much for my predictions: makekoshi for Takayasu, no kyujo for Mitakeumi, no sansho for Shonannoumi and maybe kachikoshi for Atamifuji - how the hell did he manage to win in spite of the oyakata on NHK today?

[Akinomaki 40,236]

Sansho prediction now: Onosato ginosho and shukunsho and in case of a straight yusho with a win also kantosho. Oshoma debut kantosho if he wins.

Optional sansho for other yusho winners, Abi kantosho already if he wins, Daieisho only for the yusho

 

Edited May 25, 2024 by Akinomaki

[Bunbukuchagama 706]

Wow. So, Abi can force a massive playoff tomorrow if beats Onosato.

 

[rhyen 1,828]

Maybe Atamifuji learned how not to trigger Isegahama on commentary. 
 

anyway, Onosato hung around to listen in on the Kotozakura bout since he was so swamped at the exit.