Natsu 2024 discussion (results)

[Akinomaki 40,030]

3 leaders in juryo with 11 wins and 4 in makuuchi with 9 wins - usually it's the other way round.

No rikishi without loss in jonokuchi already after day 9 - how would one query how often this happened?

[dingo 1,212]

In a battle of the seas, the assistant field sea won over the beautiful sea. Disclaimer: I know Sadanoumi's name comes from his father's stablemaster, it's just fun to play around with the literal translations.

Tsurugishou will have to see if his knee heals better in Juryo compared to Makuuchi. Harsh, but he's in no place to compete this basho. It's painful to see him on the dohyo. 

Tamawashi with a late charge to kachikoshi. I'll be amazed if he gets there but he's definitely trying against tough odds. 

Ura unfortunately loses again. He's trying but doesn't quite seem to be in the same zone that he occupied during the first third of the basho. Hope he at least gets a kachikoshi for his efforts. 

Takayasu on the other hand is on a roll, bossing around others like nobody's business. I've said it before but looking at his sumo he's basically an honorary ozeki. Oh, what could've been if not for his bad back... 

Hiradoumi was today aggressive to the max. Even Gonoyama was caught out. 

Kotozakura got plain lucky. He probably can't believe it himself that Wakamotoharu somehow touched the dohyo before him. Whether it is nerves and pressure or something else, in the recent days Kotozakura has not reached the heights he's usually capable of. With sumo like this it's hard to see him competing for the yusho, but who knows, maybe things will improve for him. Shonannoumi will be a big test tomorrow. If Kotozakura can get a comfortable win, I'll change my mind. 

[RabidJohn 1,718]

No doubt Wakamotoharu touched down first, but Kotozakura was dead body first...
I think I'd have preferred a tori-naoshi.

[Tigerboy1966 1,409]

45 minutes ago, dingo said:

With sumo like this it's hard to see him competing for the yusho

I can't think of anyone that doesn't apply to in this basho. But someone has to win the bloody thing.

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

No rikishi without loss in jonokuchi already after day 9 - how would one query how often this happened?

Something like that, perhaps?

But I'd rather have @Asashosakari's confirmation.

[Asashosakari 18,959]

This is the first time ever that the juryo division sees three rikishi with at most one loss after Day 12: Query

It was already just the third time even yesterday (and one of those was an 11-day basho).

[Asashosakari 18,959]

20 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

3 leaders in juryo with 11 wins and 4 in makuuchi with 9 wins - usually it's the other way round.

No rikishi without loss in jonokuchi already after day 9 - how would one query how often this happened?

Something like that, perhaps?

But I'd rather have @Asashosakari's confirmation.

Hmm, difficult. The (slightly) more proper way would be rank=Jk instead of division=Jk, but that is less than helpful because it includes absolutely every basho including all those for which no match data exists, whereas yours surprisingly seems to output only basho with actual jonokuchi torikumi available. On the other hand, it erroneously includes cases where a Jk guy might have picked up his 5th win against a jonidan opponent. (And also the highly esoteric situation last September where unbeaten Shiroma actually fell behind in his matches.) On the other, other hand, it's gonna miss cases for which we have hoshitori data without torikumi data.

So to get it right it probably needs to start with a list of all not-zensho Jk yusho, and then checking those off manually for the Day 10 standings. For 1989 and later (where we have all torikumi) it can be cross-referenced with your query, so that's quick to do...none apply.

Going back further: 1978.09, 1973.09 (5-2 yusho!), 1973.01, 1972.11, 1972.09, 1971.07, 1970.07, 1970.05, 1969.01, 1968.01 all had no 5-0 rikishi. Tournaments before 1967 don't have the necessary data on the DB, so it's impossible to say.

[Asashosakari 18,959]

According to the Fanclub torikumi preview, Daiseizan (Ms3w 3-3) faces Tenshoho on Day 14 and Kayo (Ms1w 5-1) meets Satorufuji on Day 15, so they're not being held back for another juryo appearance.

Akua (Ms1e 3-3), Nabatame (Ms2w 4-2), Kiryuko (Ms3e 4-2) and Kitaharima (Ms4e 3-3) might appear in juryo, but could also still be paired up head to head by record if they're not needed up there. No J vs Ms match-up on Day 13 after Hakuoho's return put the sekitori divisions back at an even number.

[Yarimotsu 548]

Incredible efforts from Hiradoumi and Meisei both to stay alive in their respective bouts, with a plan. 

Kotozakura got a gift today. Could have easily been a torinaoshi. He's really liking this "fall back to the tawara" plan...

[Yarimotsu 548]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

This is the first time ever that the juryo division sees three rikishi with at most one loss after Day 12: Query

It was already just the third time even yesterday (and one of those was an 11-day basho).

I see that 11-day basho in 1930 doesn't have a playoff loss indicated with a D and doesn't seem to award a JY either. Just incomplete data, or was it not held then?

[Koorifuu 914]

I'm glad Endo proved me wrong. He's been a joy to watch.

EDIT: I hadn't watched today's bout when I wrote that! But it was Kagayaki, it could've been worse.

Edited May 23 by Koorifuu

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

1 hour ago, Yarimotsu said:

Kotozakura got a gift today. Could have easily been a torinaoshi.

I'm inclined to believe they'd happily provided a torinaoshi if they hadn't wasted too much time throwing salt.

[Gurowake 4,011]

1 hour ago, Yarimotsu said:

I see that 11-day basho in 1930 doesn't have a playoff loss indicated with a D and doesn't seem to award a JY either. Just incomplete data, or was it not held then?

I'm not sure when kettei-sen were first done, but originally the Yusho went to the highest ranked rikishi with the best record, on account of them presumably having the hardest schedule.  Yusho were pretty much an afterthought for many years after they were first awarded.  I think as other professional sports rose and people cared about the winners (and maybe there was a larger monetary award for the winners), Ozumo started caring more as well, but back in the day the point of the tournament (and this is still mostly true) was the honwari matches to determine the next banzuke.

Edited May 23 by Gurowake

[Akinomaki 40,030]

4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Hmm, difficult. The (slightly) more proper way would be rank=Jk instead of division=Jk, but that is less than helpful because it includes absolutely every basho including all those for which no match data exists, whereas yours surprisingly seems to output only basho with actual jonokuchi torikumi available. On the other hand, it erroneously includes cases where a Jk guy might have picked up his 5th win against a jonidan opponent. (And also the highly esoteric situation last September where unbeaten Shiroma actually fell behind in his matches.) On the other, other hand, it's gonna miss cases for which we have hoshitori data without torikumi data.

So to get it right it probably needs to start with a list of all not-zensho Jk yusho, and then checking those off manually for the Day 10 standings. For 1989 and later (where we have all torikumi) it can be cross-referenced with your query, so that's quick to do...none apply.

So the limiting query would be http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&group_by=basho&g_op==&having=0&year=1989-2024&day=9,10&rank1=jk&wins1=5

which only shows the Shiroma basho as another result - and he had no loss then - plus the above queries require a result after day 10 and we already had the 1 loss for all after day 9 - a query for just day 9 shows a load of basho with 4-0 rikishi as result.

Edited May 23 by Akinomaki

[Tigerboy1966 1,409]

So as we don't have a promotion/relegation thread this time, here are some thoughts on sanyaku...

We have two definite sekiwake in Abi and Kirishima.

Onosato would force a third sekiwake slot to open if he gets to 11 wins.

Asanoyama and Wakamotoharu will drop out of sanyaku.

There will be one or two open komusubi slots, depending on whether or not Onosato gets promoted.

Komusubi contenders are Daieisho, Meisei, Atamifuji, Hiradoumi, Takayasu in roughly that order.

[Yamanashi 3,771]

Re: Nabatame (Ms2w)

Currently at 4-2; 15 out of 20 of the last 4-3 at this rank have made Juryo.

If he makes 5-2, it's almost a lock (especially with the surrounding rikishi's scores).

[Fashiritētā 171]

13 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

So as we don't have a promotion/relegation thread this time, here are some thoughts on sanyaku...

We have two definite sekiwake in Abi and Kirishima.

Onosato would force a third sekiwake slot to open if he gets to 11 wins.

Asanoyama and Wakamotoharu will drop out of sanyaku.

There will be one or two open komusubi slots, depending on whether or not Onosato gets promoted.

Komusubi contenders are Daieisho, Meisei, Atamifuji, Hiradoumi, Takayasu in roughly that order.

Possibly Ura if he wins out and some bad luck for the others.

[Tigerboy1966 1,409]

6 minutes ago, Fashiritētā said:

Possibly Ura if he wins out and some bad luck for the others.

Yup. He can get a M1w score with 9-6. He would still be behind Daieisho but if the others strike out and there are 2 open slots well... there have to be 2 komusubi and if there is no-one else available... It's a heck of a long shot though.

[Reonito 1,382]

3 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

So as we don't have a promotion/relegation thread this time, here are some thoughts on sanyaku...

We have two definite sekiwake in Abi and Kirishima.

Onosato would force a third sekiwake slot to open if he gets to 11 wins.

Asanoyama and Wakamotoharu will drop out of sanyaku.

There will be one or two open komusubi slots, depending on whether or not Onosato gets promoted.

Komusubi contenders are Daieisho, Meisei, Atamifuji, Hiradoumi, Takayasu in roughly that order.

One has been started 

 

Edited May 23 by Reonito

[Reonito 1,382]

3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Re: Nabatame (Ms2w)

Currently at 4-2; 15 out of 20 of the last 4-3 at this rank have made Juryo.

If he makes 5-2, it's almost a lock (especially with the surrounding rikishi's scores).

There might not be room, depending on how Akua and Fujiseiun do 

 

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

Watching Dewanojo vs. Harunishiki: sometimes, yet only sometimes, size *does* matter.

[rhyen 1,823]

5 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Watching Dewanojo vs. Harunishiki: sometimes, yet only sometimes, size *does* matter.

Only when creativity and technique run out. 

[rhyen 1,823]

Kusano panicked in the heat of the moment?

[Bunbukuchagama 701]

Maikeru intai.

[Jakusotsu 5,869]

Quite nice of Hokutofuji to make me miss Tosanoumi a bit less.