Hatsu 2024 discussion (results)

[RabidJohn 1,665]

1 hour ago, yorikiried by fate said:

I have a completely different impression of Kotonowaka. For me, he projects an air of inevitability, which is kinda backed up by his performance so far. This is not how I remember Kisenosato.

I hadn't returned to sumo before Kisenosato was promoted to ozeki. As I mentioned it's mainly just the coincidental nationality of the top 4 rikishi where I see the parallel.

But yeah, Kotonowaka's ozeki promotion feels inevitable; if not this basho then some time soon. Big, strong, and well-rounded technique for one so young.

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

43 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Kotonowaka-Oho 

Ah yes, who to match against the next ozeki other than an M11 with 3 straight losses who already isn't a serious yusho contender.

Oho never had 3 straight losses, and the 2nd came only after this torikumi was settled.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

1 hour ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Alternately, another spot could open if Endo and/or Myogiryu completely shit themselves, but they only need two wins in five days against a bunch of fellow strugglebus riders to stay safe. 

Don't forget Shonannoumi, he is not safe yet. The same goes for Shimazuumi and Takarafuji. Even Churanoumi or Tsurugisho can be demoted if they lose out (which is very unlikely, of course).

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

1 minute ago, Jakusotsu said:

Oho never had 3 straight losses, and the 2nd came only after this torikumi was settled.

It's difficult to deny that Kotonowaka got softballed in this case.

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

Not denying anything, just getting the facts straight.

[Kotogouryuu 126]

7 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I'm quite surprised Onosato appears to have no yotsu to back up his awesome oshizumo.

I wouldn't judge him based on this match alone. His tachiai was tentative, and he didn't really have time to do anything after that. Who knows what he could have done had he gone for the belt straight away.

[Reonito 1,335]

8 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

I'm quite surprised Onosato appears to have no yotsu to back up his awesome oshizumo. With his height and reach, I assumed he'd be at least competent on the belt. 
Nishonseki-san need to get at least a bit belt technique drummed into his deshi if he's really going to do well at the top.

That looked more like nerves and a flubbed tachiai than a lack of technique...

[Reonito 1,335]

2 hours ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

Alternately, another spot could open if Endo and/or Myogiryu completely **** themselves, but they only need two wins in five days against a bunch of fellow strugglebus riders to stay safe. 

I've got Endo needing (2 puts him at M18, and that would send him down in favor of a legit promotion case), and Takarafuji and Shimazuumi also need 2 apiece. Hokuseiho is demotable, and will Shonannoumi win again? On the flip side, Bushozan could of course still save himself. So yeah, Takeru could well get stuck, like Atami did when he went 13-2 at J8, but he might have a couple more outs.

[maglor 122]

1 hour ago, Bunbukuchagama said:

It's difficult to deny that Kotonowaka got softballed in this case.

Who else would you have him fight? I guess he could fight Tamawashi who he's beaten 7 times in a row

[maglor 122]

8 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Another great win by Tamawashi today. There is no comparison between him and the last 39-year-old we saw in makuuchi.
Not a bandage in sight, never had a day off(* ok?), and he shows no sign of nearing the end of his career.
I want to see him grab a 40th birthday yusho in November.

I'm quite surprised Onosato appears to have no yotsu to back up his awesome oshizumo. With his height and reach, I assumed he'd be at least competent on the belt. 
Nishonseki-san need to get at least a bit belt technique drummed into his deshi if he's really going to do well at the top.

I'm starting to get Kisenosato vibes from Kotonowaka. Not so much his style or physique, but the very familiar-feeling scenario of being the top Japanese rikishi with 3 Mongolians above him.
He's so close to getting his granddad's shikona now, and he's in the driver's seat for the yusho. Will he compound my feeling of déjà-vu by choking?

Having watched a little bit of Onosato in college and his rise to Makuuchi(though admittedly not as much as some people on here would have), I have gotten the sense that Onosato really does not have an effective plan B if his initial charge doesn't send his opponent out of his ring. I have seen him in college moving backwards slapping down dudes who weighed a 100kg if that.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

2 minutes ago, maglor said:

Who else would you have him fight? I guess he could fight Tamawashi who he's beaten 7 times in a row

It could be argued that Tobizaru would be a better opponent by the virtue of his rank alone; he was K's obvious opponent according to the usual sequence.

6-3 M11s are typically not fed to an 8-1 Sekiwake.

[maglor 122]

Yeah I guess Tobizaru would be better, he could still get Tobizaru on Day 12 I suppose if they decide Onosho has taken enough.

Really they should just go to day-of scheduling after Day 10

[Benevolance 2,478]

I have to give a shout out to Naruto oyakata. He may burn through his deshi, but when he's the announcing judge ringside I can actually follow what he's saying after the mono ii. That's worth a couple of wrestlers a year in my books. 

[Octofuji 327]

11 hours ago, Seiyashi said:

Is Daieishō trying out for the ballet? 

Or a puppet show. That was really odd!

[Sumo Spiffy 535]

54 minutes ago, Reonito said:

I've got Endo needing (2 puts him at M18, and that would send him down in favor of a legit promotion case), and Takarafuji and Shimazuumi also need 2 apiece. Hokuseiho is demotable, and will Shonannoumi win again? On the flip side, Bushozan could of course still save himself. So yeah, Takeru could well get stuck, like Atami did when he went 13-2 at J8, but he might have a couple more outs.

I forgot about Hokuseiho, and yeah, my Endo math was bad. As sad as Shonannoumi has been, he should only need one win, so it felt premature to include him, and it seems like Takarafuji and Shimazuumi can get two each. But Hokuseiho with some bad J1 performances might be enough.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

32 minutes ago, maglor said:

Really they should just go to day-of scheduling after Day 10

You know they are too lazy to do it. 

I bet they have a master sheet with torikumi set in advance, and any sort of discussion only happens when they feel the need to adjust it.

[Reonito 1,335]

12 minutes ago, Sumo Spiffy said:

I forgot about Hokuseiho, and yeah, my Endo math was bad. As sad as Shonannoumi has been, he should only need one win, so it felt premature to include him, and it seems like Takarafuji and Shimazuumi can get two each. But Hokuseiho with some bad J1 performances might be enough.

Also, 8-7 from J1e isn't an absolute guarantee of promotion, though I doubt even 14-1 from J10 would get precedence.

[Koorifuu 886]

1 hour ago, maglor said:

Having watched a little bit of Onosato in college and his rise to Makuuchi(though admittedly not as much as some people on here would have), I have gotten the sense that Onosato really does not have an effective plan B if his initial charge doesn't send his opponent out of his ring. I have seen him in college moving backwards slapping down dudes who weighed a 100kg if that.

The downside of being too dominant is that you grow stale, if not complacent. I'm sure he hasn't been manhandled like yesterday for many a year, really hoping that it was a valuable lesson he's still able to learn from.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

Something I've just noticed; guess which division this rikishi is competing in:

Day 2 yoritaoshi Ms60w Ohata 0-1 (2-3) 1-0   Day 4 oshidashi Sd2e Hayanami 1-1 (2-3) 1-1   Day 6 oshidashi Ms59w Tochinobori 2-1 (3-2) 1-0   Day 7 yorikiri Ms55e Sazanami 3-1 (4-1) 1-0   Day 9 yorikiri Ms53e Akinoyama 4-1 1-0   Day 11     Ms41w Haruyama 5-0 0-0

Edited January 23 by Bunbukuchagama

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

If you hadn't been asking I would have guessed wrong.

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

How about this one?

Day 2 yoritaoshi Sd1e Tanji 1-0 (5-0) 0-1   Day 3 oshitaoshi Sd1w Kenshin 0-2 (2-3) 2-1   Day 5 kakenage Ms58w Oyamada 2-1 (2-3) 0-1   Day 7 yoritaoshi Sd4e Kyoda 2-2 (2-3) 1-1   Day 10 yorikiri Sd3e Sadanohikari 1-4 3-3

[Bunbukuchagama 688]

...Or this one?

Day 1 uwatenage Ms59w Tochinobori 1-0 (3-2) 0-1   Day 4 yoritaoshi Ms59e Kiyota 1-1 (1-4) 1-3   Day 5 tsukidashi Sd1w Kenshin 1-2 (2-3) 1-1   Day 8 katasukashi Sd3e Sadanohikari 1-3 (1-4) 0-1   Day 9 katasukashi Sd9e Shuji 0-4-1 1-0   Day 11     Sd7w Hokutoryu 1-4 1-2

[Kaninoyama 1,694]

7 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

I haven't watched a whole lot in recent years, but this time around, I haven't missed a single day. That out of the way, I have a completely different impression of Kotonowaka. For me, he projects an air of inevitability, which is kinda backed up by his performance so far. This is not how I remember Kisenosato. The latter, instead, projected "could/should/would be" and a bunch of unnecessary drama – admittedly partly media made.

(Non-sarcastic) Question to the Kise fans of old: Did you ever feel safe?

There's one big difference. Kisenosato was to Hakuho as Phil Mickelson was to Tiger Woods. Without the GOAT in his way, his career trajectory may have looked far different than it ended up being. 

Kotonowaka has no such obstacle in his path. 

[Jakusotsu 5,815]

30 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Kotonowaka has no such obstacle in his path. 

He does.

[Asashosakari 18,786]

33 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

There's one big difference. Kisenosato was to Hakuho as Phil Mickelson was to Tiger Woods. Without the GOAT in his way, his career trajectory may have looked far different than it ended up being. 

Kotonowaka has no such obstacle in his path. 

Not to mention that some version of "his rise is inevitable" has been said about at least five different rikishi in the last 12 months. At least Kisenosato was the on-the-cusp guy for years; Kotonowaka could already be yesterday's news again eight weeks from today.