Haru Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Bumpkin 438]

What are the chances, if any, that the Kyokai will have Y1e Hakuho (13-0) face M4w Ichinojo (12-1) on Day 15? They could wait until after the Takakeisho v Ichinojo and Hakuho v Takayasu matches to publish the Day 15 torikumi.

[ryafuji 824]

11 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

I do hope Hakuho will lose one of his matches now, and Ichinojo wins them all, because I'll feel a little robbed if those two don't go head to head this basho.

I wonder when was the last time someone went 14-1 and didn't get a chance to face the yusho winner.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Just now, Bumpkin said:

What are the chances, if any, that the Kyokai will have Y1e Hakuho (13-0) face M4w Ichinojo (12-1) on Day 15? They could wait until after the Takakeisho v Ichinojo and Hakuho v Takayasu matches to publish the Day 15 torikumi.

Nil. It’ll be Hakuho v Kakuryu regardless and Ichinojo will have to rely on that result to get his playoff.

[Bumpkin 438]

When was the last time, if ever, that a rikishi finished 14-1 and did not get a chance to face the yusho winner? Same heya mates excluded.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

4 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

I wonder when was the last time someone went 14-1 and didn't get a chance to face the yusho winner.

Not 14-1, but just last year Aoiyama finished runner-up with 13-2 and didn’t get the chance to affect the race by fighting the eventual winner Hakuho. It’s not that unusual for a hiramaku not to get that shot if he’s trailing. Only if a hiramaku is leading the race does he tend to face the yaku ranks.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

1 hour ago, Morty said:

I am one who has often said something similar (ie, it isn't the numbers but the quality). But with Takakeisho the numbers do tell you something, much like Kisenosato's numbers told you something before he finally yusho'd. They suggest a consistent level of quality in his sumo over his entire career. Takakeisho has been in makuuchi for 14 basho and has achieved at least ten wins in seven of them, nine wins in three more (including this one which could still end up as ten, or more), and four MK. In that short time he also has a yusho, two jun-yusho, six prizes and three kinboshi. His long term trajectory is that he wins, consistently, and continually improves. Personally I think that they should have promoted him last basho, because he has been showing Ozeki level quality for a while now, and if they don't promote him with ten here then that seems super harsh to me. It doesn't matter that he just does Oshi sumo because he wins with it, consistently.

 Exactly I agree 1000% with this

[Yubinhaad 11,959]

Hanakaze, the only rikishi whose career has spanned the entirety of the Heisei era, started and finished it in a rather unfortunate way...

[ryafuji 824]

7 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Not 14-1, but just last year Aoiyama finished runner-up with 13-2 and didn’t get the chance to affect the race by fighting the eventual winner Hakuho. It’s not that unusual for a hiramaku not to get that shot if he’s trailing. Only if a hiramaku is leading the race does he tend to face the yaku ranks.

Yeah I know but I was thinking specifically of a 14-1 runner-up as they are so much rarer than a 13-2.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

13 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

When was the last time, if ever, that a rikishi finished 14-1 and did not get a chance to face the yusho winner? Same heya mates excluded.

Excluding playoffs, it’s only happened once that I can find: Kiyokuni in January 1964. He was M13 so his schedule didn’t include bouts with the top rankers, though he had one komusubi and one sekiwake bout towards the end (the latter was his one loss). Taiho won the yusho.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Yeah I know but I was thinking specifically of a 14-1 runner-up as they are so much rarer than a 13-2.

Indeed they are. For this particular set of circumstances to occur it’d need to be a low Maegashira getting 14-1 as anyone in the joi or above will face the top-ranked guys (who tend to be the ones winning the yusho). The variables are so great it requires quite a lot to come together all at once. I’ve found only one instance of it: Hatsu 1964.

[ryafuji 824]

16 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

Hanakaze, the only rikishi whose career has spanned the entirety of the Heisei era, started and finished it in a rather unfortunate way...

Only three of those in 33 years though. Not bad at all.

[Kintamayama 47,194]

Let's get this out of the way-"Why is Ichinojou not facing Hakuhou??" It's not a knock-out tournament and it's not a bardak. There is a system.. Whatever happens, they stick to the format when the Yokozunae are healthy. Day 14 YE against OE (If he's there, nitpickers..). Day 15- YE against YW. Always. Even if the end of the world arrives. That being said, they could have foreseen this happening and paired Ichinorov with some top guys around day 10. But they didn't. Now, it's too late.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Let's get this out of the way-"Why is Ichinojou not facing Hakuhou??" It's not a knock-out tournament and it's not a bardak. There is a system.. Whatever happens, they stick to the format when the Yokozunae are healthy. Day 14 YE against OE (If he's there, nitpickers..). Day 15- YE against YW. Always. Even if the end of the world arrives. That being said, they could have foreseen this happening and paired Ichinorov with some top guys around day 10. But they didn't. Now, it's too late.

More accurately, they end with the top two highest ranked guys facing each other. If there’s only one Yokozuna, he’d face Ozeki East, etc.

[Kintamayama 47,194]

13 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

More accurately, they end with the top two highest ranked guys facing each other. If there’s only one Yokozuna, he’d face Ozeki East, etc.

Exactly. But i was referring specifically to the case in hand as can be seen by my mock question.

[lackmaker 454]

And if Hakuho wins 15-0 against a full schedule while Ichinojo goes 14-1 against a significantly easier programme will the outcome really be unfair?

[ryafuji 824]

I don't think anyone has said it is unfair. Just unusual.

Edit - spoke too soon.

Edited March 22, 2019 by ryafuji

[Rocks 1,810]

11 minutes ago, lackmaker said:

And if Hakuho wins 15-0 against a full schedule while Ichinojo goes 14-1 against a significantly easier programme will the outcome really be unfair?

Yes! Why? Because I want Ichinojo to face Hakuho, that's why.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

On day 8 they gave a struggling Tochiozan to an unbeaten Hakuho, and scheduled an Ozeki bout for Ichinojo (who sas unbeaten as well) instead- a bout that maybe could have been scheduled later. Tochiozan almost had Hakuho and Ichinojo lost to Tochinoshin that day, but maybe they could have arranged for Hakuho  to face Ichinojo. I don't know if the fact Tochinoshin and Tochiozan can't face each other played any role. The asanoyama match up was strange to me as well, surely they could have picked someone ranked higher with a decent record.

[Jakusotsu 6,390]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

That being said, they could have foreseen this happening and paired Ichinorov with some top guys around day 10. But they didn't. Now, it's too late.

But they did. Ichinojo met all Ozeki and Sekiwake, didn't he? And for pairing him against Hakuho, the GOAT would have had to skip a Sekiwake or Ozeki opponent which would have looked rather foolish if Ichinojo folded in the end.

[Atenzan 1,084]

re: Ichinojou not facing Hakuhou- bear in mind that they're already altering the usual schedule in having Takakeishou face Ichinojou instead of the out-of-form Shoudai. I think they're actually doing the best thing they can here; Takakeishou vs. beastmode Ichinojou is a fixture that legitimises both the potential Takakeishou promotion and the Ichinojou yusho campaign. Besides, there's only two yokozuna, so there was no plausible chance of them scrapping Hakuhou vs. Kakuryuu on Sunday. 

[Kintamayama 47,194]

17 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

But they did. Ichinojo met all Ozeki and Sekiwake, didn't he? And for pairing him against Hakuho, the GOAT would have had to skip a Sekiwake or Ozeki opponent which would have looked rather foolish if Ichinojo folded in the end.

I meant that at that stage, they could have thrown him at Hakuhou or Kakuryuu. He's not M12. He's M4, They could have fed him to one of the 2 Yokozunae when he started looking like a contender on around days 11-12, instead of what they actually did. So they skip a Tamawashi, big deal. (I'm just pointing this out for the benefit of those that think the two guys with the best records on day 15 should be pitted against each other, which of course, is not sumo. Oh yeah, and they should lower the dohyo. Let's not forget that.)

[Jakusotsu 6,390]

Skipping Hakuho-Tamawashi makes sense in hindsight. But when they scheduled their match for day 10, Tamawashi was still 4-4 and defending champion. Would have looked rather odd.

[Sakura 1,523]

10 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Skipping Hakuho-Tamawashi makes sense in hindsight. But when they scheduled their match for day 10, Tamawashi was still 4-4 and defending champion. Would have looked rather odd.

He's only one position lower than Tochiozan who was already on a strong MK trajectory when Tochiozan fought the Yokozuna. It's not what they do, but they could have put Ichinojo in there as a strong last maegashira opponent.

[robnplunder 978]

 

7 hours ago, dada78641 said:

Takanofuji's painful face plant. (I think it's Takanofuji, please correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

Wow, I didn't notice Takanofuji got a tattoo after the fall.   The fall looked pretty bad at the moment.  

[Jakusotsu 6,390]

2 minutes ago, Sakura said:

He's only one position lower than Tochiozan who was already on a strong MK trajectory when Tochiozan fought the Yokozuna. It's not what they do, but they could have put Ichinojo in there as a strong last maegashira opponent.

Agreed. But as you said, it's not what they do.