Aki Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[SumpaX 23]

32 minutes ago, Shio-kago said:

Although I have always respected Kisenosato, and admired his sumo, I've never really been a fan. I'm on record as saying that I would be cheering for him ahead of everyone else in this basho though, because I did not want to see him forced into retirement.

It seems to me now, that I'm going to walk away from Aki '18 with a little bit more. I think that maybe I'm beginning to look on Kisenosato in a new light, and starting to feel that he's a bit of a hero. Although a couple of his matches were stillborn, blunders where he set himself up for failure; the bouts where he delivered a decent tachiai, and gave himself a fighting chance, have been nothing short of inspiring to me. Mighty effort from a might man!

Yes I couldn't agree more, I too come to like Kise's efforts more and more, and i would hate to see another yokozuna to retire this soon. Although you could argue many of his bouts aren't won in a yokozuna way, they are really entertaining and thats worth a lot to me.

Edited September 20, 2018 by SumpaX

[Eikokurai 3,437]

19 minutes ago, Ragebaton said:

And yet our two other Ozeki are fairly similar in this regard, 1 and 3 that is, counting the cancelled basho as a continuum, string of three double-digit performance for the lot of them .  

Takayasu has been Ozeki for just a little over a year; Tochinoshin hasn't even finished two basho at the rank. Goeido, on the other hand, has been there for four years. Give the new guys time before we compare their records.

Takayasu has three successive 10+ records, which includes a three-basho run, and Tochinoshin has a three-basho run to his name, too, which isn't something Goeido has ever managed, even for his Ozeki run.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Eikokurai 3,437]

15 minutes ago, chishafuwaku said:

No, because Hakuho goes first 

If Hakuho wins, he goes to 13-0. The winner of Kakuryu-Goeido ends the day 11-2 with two days left. If Hakuho loses (12-1), Kakuryu and Takyasu both mathematically remain in contention with 11-2 and 10-3 records, so my original statement that "one of them" is guaranteed to still be in the race is true.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Chankomafuji 51]

54 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

This is officially Hakuho's basho.   

The only official thing right now are the secret (or not so much) jinx hopes of the many who were ready to explode the comment section praising the 2nd Tochinoshin win over Hakuho. 

[Ragebaton 6]

35 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Takayasu has been Ozeki for just a little over a year; Tochinoshin hasn't even finished two basho at the rank. Goeido, on the other hand, has been there for four years. Give the new guys time before we compare their records.

Takayasu has three successive 10+ records, which includes a three-basho run, and Tochinoshin has a three-basho run to his name, too, which isn't something Goeido has ever managed, even for his Ozeki run.

If you add such a qualifier, for example an Ozeki that  spent multiple years at the rank but never made Yokuzuna, it certainly becomes far more unusual. If the cancelled basho was simply ignored, that  was the three basho streak for Goeido.  Seemingly now enjoying better health  than his also not that young peers, it will be interesting to see how they compare in the end.

[Amamaniac 2,091]

Yesterday, there was a huge fan contingent to support Mitakeumi in his bout against Kaisei.  Where did they all go when today Mitakeumi had to face the mighty Kisenosato?  The Kokugikan was packed with Kisenosato supporters, and not a Mitakeumi banner in sight. (Perhaps NHK is partly to blame.)  Sumo fans are somewhat fickle by the looks of things.  

Also today, Olympic ojisan was in his regular boxed seat holding up a fan sheet of paper with Kakuryu's name on it during Kakuryu's dohyoiri.  A surprising show of support by him.  Clearly, Kakuryu's supporters felt that the Yokozuna is still in the hunt for a yusho.  I wonder whether those Kakuryu fans will be there again tomorrow, and whether Olympic ojisan will join them again.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Morty 1,518]

That was great sumo from Kise today. he just waited adjusted, waited adjusted, and then went for the kill. 

And when Hak is on like he is this basho he doesn't look mortal compared to everyone else.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

50 minutes ago, Ragebaton said:

If you add such a qualifier, for example an Ozeki that  spent multiple years at the rank but never made Yokuzuna, it certainly becomes far more unusual. If the cancelled basho was simply ignored, that  was the three basho streak for Goeido.  Seemingly now enjoying better health  than his also not that young peers, it will be interesting to see how they compare in the end.

I factored in the cancelled basho simply because I feel that getting to sit out a tournament for free skews the data. It’s an extra period of rest and recuperation that inevitably has health benefits. I consider it equivalent in terms of making comparisons to going kyujo for a whole tournament, even if he didn’t choose it.

[Benevolance 2,534]

I think it was really smart of Goeidou to open up some space between himself and the yusho leader so that he could concentrate on doing good sumo. Gambare!

[Rocks 1,810]

In addition to a lot of inadvertent step outs this basho there seems to be a lot of their feet are  just sliding right over the bales instead of stopping and very little action at the tawara.  I know the guys who build the dohyo are very good and very exacting but I wonder if there is an issue with the height or the quality of straw their were able to get for the tawara this basho.  Maybe @John Gunning would know...

[Amamaniac 2,091]

38 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

I think it was really smart of Goeidou to open up some space between himself and the yusho leader so that he could concentrate on doing good sumo.

I suspect that was Endo's plan too, but it seems to have backfired on him!  LOL

[Rocks 1,810]

Well Hakuho handled Tochinoshin easily. He looks unstoppable now. Only question is does he zensho or not. Probably  yes. Kakuryu has looked very good this basho but I don't think he has enough to beat Hakuho this time.

Mitakeumi's Ozeki run is officially over. I guess there's some remote chance that if he gets a KK here and a yusho in November beating all the Yokozuna in the process he could still get it.  Extremely unlikely though.

Kisenosato has 9 and  this being a satisfactory return is official now. If he can mange to win one more he could take off 6 more basho and the Kyokai would still be cool with it.

Tochinoshin will get his KK.  I never doubted that. Unbelievably it looks like Ichinojo could even get one himself, again. 

Outside of Takanoiwa  getting more than 10 wins I'm not seeing any viable sansho candidates. Probably a shutout and none awarded this time.

[Rocks 1,810]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

I think it was really smart of Goeidou to open up some space between himself and the yusho leader so that he could concentrate on doing good sumo. Gambare!

I think Goeido has had an excellent basho. Outside of a legitimate 1st day to loss Kansei, who is no slouch when he shows up, his only loss is to a fellow Ozeki.  Kakuryu looks resigned to not winning the yusho so I think Goeido could beat him tomorrow, maybe even easily. Even with e loss to Hakuho Goeido should be able to hold his head high for the next 2 months. Takayasu too, just a little higher. Even Tochinoshin given his condition, should be able to also.

All and all the Ozeki crew has represented themselves very well this basho.  Kudos to them.

[Andreas21 219]

4 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Mitakeumi's Ozeki run is officially over. I guess there's some remote chance that if he gets a KK here and a yusho in November beating all the Yokozuna in the process he could still get it.

The yardstick is Goeido's run of 12-3J / 8-7 / 12-3J . Are there any reasons they are going harder on him? Not really, I believe. It is debatable that Goeido was slightly older at the time and they honoured career achievements - which hasn't been much really. With respect to Sumo quality and Hikaku - there is not really a difference between the two.

So, Mitakeumi's run is realistically over. I say so because of his body language. He appears not to believe it anymore. Psychologically, he could easily lose the rest of the matches.

But officially, no. There is not even complete guarantee that they do not promote 9-6 / 13-2Y / 9-6. For the next basho, 13-2Y / 8-7 / 12-3 should be sufficient. As was said before - beating all the Yokozuna doesn't count.

 

 

[Rocks 1,810]

2 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

The yardstick is Goeido's run of 12-3J / 8-7 / 12-3J . Are there any reasons they are going harder on him? Not really, I believe. It is debatable that Goeido was slightly older at the time and they honoured career achievements - which hasn't been much really. With respect to Sumo quality and Hikaku - there is not really a difference between the two.

So, Mitakeumi's run is realistically over. I say so because of his body language. He appears not to believe it anymore. Psychologically, he could easily lose the rest of the matches.

But officially, no. There is not even complete guarantee that they do not promote 9-6 / 13-2Y / 9-6. For the next basho, 13-2Y / 8-7 / 12-3 should be sufficient. As was said before - beating all the Yokozuna doesn't count.

 

 

I would not say such yardstick applies to Mitakeumi. Goeido had 5 double digit win basho as Sanyaku prior to promotion to ozeki. Mitakeumi has 1, his yusho. Without another there is no way they promote him IMO. Even 10 or 11 wins looks unlikely to me. Maybe 12 if he is in contention for the Yusho for most of the basho. And beating Yokozuna counts, for a lot. beating all of them would probably guarantee the promotion. or at least 2 out of 3 if they are all there.

[Akinomaki 41,779]

Tomorrow yokozuna Kisenosato for the first time is paired against Hakuho

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_opp.aspx?r=1235#1123

Edited September 20, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Rocks 1,810]

5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Tomorrow yokozuna Kisenosato for the first time is paired against Hakuho

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_opp.aspx?r=1235#1123

Wow, just realized that. Plus they have only faced each other twice in 2 years? Always amazing when you see that. Yes, they have been out but it doesn't hit you till you see it listed. Sumo DB is cool.

Edited September 20, 2018 by Rocks

[Asashosakari 20,225]

9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

I factored in the cancelled basho simply because I feel that getting to sit out a tournament for free skews the data. It’s an extra period of rest and recuperation that inevitably has health benefits. I consider it equivalent in terms of making comparisons to going kyujo for a whole tournament, even if he didn’t choose it.

All his opponents in Natsu 2011 had the same benefit, so I don't see how it skewed anything in favour of Goeido.

[WAKATAKE 2,759]

Today’s win by Kisenosato has now vaulted him past his former companion Yokozuna Harumafuji for 713 makuuchi wins now

[ALAKTORN 346]

44 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

All his opponents in Natsu 2011 had the same benefit, so I don't see how it skewed anything in favour of Goeido.

That’s a false equivalency or something. Extra rest time can help some rikishi more than others, obviously you could also make the argument that it helped Gōeidō less than others because he seems to be one of the few rikishi left that doesn’t get injured. But saying they all got rest so it’s the same for everyone, is silly.

[Gurowake 4,151]

10 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

That’s a false equivalency or something. Extra rest time can help some rikishi more than others, obviously you could also make the argument that it helped Gōeidō less than others because he seems to be one of the few rikishi left that doesn’t get injured. But saying they all got rest so it’s the same for everyone, is silly.

Would you say after a round-robin competition with a clear winner says that it's not fair that the winner had easier opponents than everyone else, since he didn't have to face himself?

[Asashosakari 20,225]

20 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

That’s a false equivalency or something. Extra rest time can help some rikishi more than others, obviously you could also make the argument that it helped Gōeidō less than others because he seems to be one of the few rikishi left that doesn’t get injured. But saying they all got rest so it’s the same for everyone, is silly.

That makes no sense whatsoever. By that "logic" it's impossible to ever put any rikishi's records in relation to any other's because their circumstances are never perfectly identical. The fact is: Everybody got the benefit of two additional months of off-time, so their results in Natsu 2011 are as comparable as they are in other tournament. There is no "skew" here that would somehow make those results less admissible.

(Just to add: I'll start taking this argument seriously as soon as people start discounting the results of Haru and Nagoya tournaments because there's no jungyo tour before them.)

Edited September 20, 2018 by Asashosakari

[Benihana 1,971]

If Aoiyama would finally stop doing those dame-oshi, he'd be much more likable and suppert-worthy.

Kisenosato vs. Mitakeumi was just short of epic.

Nice try by Abi playing mind games. Almost got him...

Some well deserved purple drizzle for Takayasu.

Feel sorry for Chiyonokuni. Deserves the kanto-sho, sadly no chance to get it.

[Kishinoyama 624]

13 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

 Hoshoryu vs Naya for kachikoshi and to stay in makushita tomorrow.

I had a feeling that pairing would be made. Hoshoryu started off on fire and then cooled of just as fast.

[Gurowake 4,151]

17 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Feel sorry for Chiyonokuni. Deserves the kanto-sho, sadly no chance to get it.

While obviously you need a KK to get a sansho, it's clear that the main way that you show you have fighting spirit is by winning a lot of matches.  They even gave Ichinojo one on his Makuuchi debut and he didn't do much other than stand there and be difficult to move (and then henka two Y/O).