Aki Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Rocks 1,810]

53 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Hakuhou said that a  few seconds into the match he heard (or thought he heard) the gyoji shout "matta" and that is why he let up around the three- second mark. He was experienced enough to turn it around in the end though, he said. I've looked at it a few times and see no sign of anything like that..

Hakuho did lift his right hand off Ikioi's back like he is trying to signal the gyoji.  Hakuho said he thought he heard a matta but I think he really means he thought it should have been. Hakuho seems to think every time he gets pwned on the tachi-ai it must have been a matta. But Hakuho didn't give the gyoji the stink eye at the end of the bout as he usually does when he thinks the gyoji got it wrong so I don't think even he had much conviction it was a matta. 

[Huschnu 5]

With Takanoiwa looking well, we might see another match against Hakuho in the future. Was there any reconciliation? As Takanoiwa I would be very mindful  of an extra shoves...

[Benihana 1,976]

It's a tragic pity Enho will stick a those 169cm. He's quick, he's got he heart/spirit/mojo and he's got the technique to be remembered as one of the greatest. Yes, yes, others are almost equally short (Takekaze, Takakeisho), but those 2 have a much wider, stronger frame. If he bulks up a bit (like Ishiura), he will be much better than Ishiura, but the occasional visits to K/S will be his career highs. I'd be delighted if he manages to prove me wrong. F*** is that kid good.

Just watch his bouts so far:

Spoiler

 

 

[Kintamayama 47,413]

2 minutes ago, Benihana said:

It's a tragic pity Enho will stick a those 169cm.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

I'm not convinced he will make it to Makuuchi.

[maorencze 144]

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm not convinced he will make it to Makuuchi.

Let's see if he gets more strength. That's the one thing anyone can get to some degree, coupled with bulk.

[Rocks 1,810]

1 minute ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm not convinced he will make it to Makuuchi.

I doubt he ever KKs in Juryo. I give him almost zero chance of going higher. 

[Benihana 1,976]

Just now, Kintamayama said:

I'm not convinced he will make it to Makuuchi.

If he doesn't get stronger, i second you.

[Jakusotsu 6,407]

The most difficult thing when fighting against Enho must be to avoid breaking his neck.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

Enho has excellent  footwork like the great great Chiyonofuji. Ishura has enough weight to hit hard and needs better footwork IMO. Hit and move should be ishura's mantra. He can do better. Kotoshugiku hitting hard as they come everybody talks about the belly bump, but man he hits.  Wild win for Kisenosato watching while biting my fingernails.  Damm I need sleep ... 

[Rocks 1,810]

 

2 hours ago, Benihana said:

It's a tragic pity Enho will stick a those 169cm. He's quick, he's got he heart/spirit/mojo and he's got the technique to be remembered as one of the greatest. Yes, yes, others are almost equally short (Takekaze, Takakeisho), but those 2 have a much wider, stronger frame.

 

The problem with Enho is not that he he won't ever be more then 169cm/5 ' 6 1/2", it's that he never was or will be even that.

Behind Enho in the first picture is Terutsuyoshi who's listed at 169cm and he's at least an inch taller than Enho. The second pic is the Chin himself, Yago, who is listed at 187cm/6' 1 1/2". Now unless Yago is the only human male on the planet who doesn't have dwarfism and has a head only 7 inches tall  there is no way Enho is only 7 inches shorter than Yago. Most likely Enho is barely breaking 165cm/5' 5" tall. These pics are a few weeks old.

I seriously doubt he is the 95 KGs he is listed at but I doubt adding weight is going to do much for Enho. Guys like Takekaze, Takakeisho, Terutsuyoshi, Ishiura and Ura, in addition to being taller than Enho, not only have more weight. With the exception of Ura they all have very good upper body strength for their size. Ura not so much, Enho, not at all.And he's not likely  to get it without a ton of weight work because he has a small frame and minuscule shoulders.

Enho so far has mostly advanced by beating guys inexperienced with dealing with such a small guy or injured guys who can't or have no desire to catch him. He would be very lucky to get 8 of those in Juryo AND beat every one to make his KK IMO. You aren't going to the top in sumo if your main technique is cling like heck to the bigger guys leg/lower body and hope they fall over you.

Edited September 10, 2018 by Rocks

[Tigerboy1966 1,646]

3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm not convinced he will make it to Makuuchi.

I think he should be able to emulate Satoyama and get a couple tournaments in Makuuchi without ever establishing himself there. He already does a pretty good version of Satoyama's submarine attack.

[maorencze 144]

1 hour ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I think he should be able to emulate Satoyama and get a couple tournaments in Makuuchi without ever establishing himself there. He already does a pretty good version of Satoyama's submarine attack.

Satoyama is bigger though, and that's saying something considering how small he seems compared to really big sekitori

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

5 hours ago, Rocks said:

I doubt he ever KKs in Juryo. I give him almost zero chance of going higher. 

Now that's what I call a post that could come back to bite you! ;)

[Rocks 1,810]

Just now, Pandaazuma said:

Now that's what I call a post that could come back to bite you! ;)

It could. 

[Gurowake 4,154]

1 hour ago, Pandaazuma said:

Now that's what I call a post that could come back to bite you! ;)

I think Rocks says plenty of things that are easy to come back to bite him and he doesn't particularly care.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

I actually think Enho can go higher. He doesn't have Ura's extravagant flamboyance and genius but he does have that tenacious quality that is essential for the little guys. He reminds me more of Satoyama...although there are of course differences. It wouldn't surprise me if he made Makuuchi, especially if he decided to take the Ishiura route (i.e. henka everyone on the planet and his granny and his dog). Obviously at that level he would run into guys who can handle that. Someone should open a poll on how high Enho will go in his career. No doubt someone has already done so.

Edited September 11, 2018 by Pandaazuma

[Katooshu 3,485]

7 hours ago, Rocks said:

I doubt he ever KKs in Juryo. I give him almost zero chance of going higher. 

You also said in the Haru 2017 recruit thread "167cm? I'm  sorry but this kid is going nowhere..."

Perhaps he might just be better than you think?

 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Katooshu

[robnplunder 978]

9 hours ago, Rocks said:

Interesting day. I thought Ichinojo had him but Takayasu fought hard and pulled it out. But these last 2 matches took a lot out of him.

Kakuyu and Hakuho both look good but they have had opponents they handled easily in the past so far.

Mitakeumi looks a bit on edge but solid. Tochinoshin looks okay but you get the feeling he will be very happy with 8 wins and won't push too hard after that.

Kisenosato? Back? I don't know about that. But he looks better than he has in a long while and is showing some strength and resilience,

Day 3 is the will be a good test:

Can Takayasu withstand the cannonball of Chiyotairyu?

Hakuho and Kauryu have it easy.

Mitakeumi has Tamawashi who is a mess but gives Mita  a hard time.

Tochoinoshin has Takakeisho and Tochi has trouble with the little guys.

 

Takayasu looks good so far and will likely beat Chiyotairyu IMO.  I also think Tochinochin will beat hard charging Takakeisho this time.   He just need to stay in front and wait for Takakeisho to lose balance ... .

 

Two easy wins for Hokutofuji .... yeah!   Two hard losses for Shodai who appears to have reached his potential at joi (and occasional spot at Komusubi/Sekiwake).   His path have divulged from Mitakeumi's (on his way to Ozekiship one day) and the last bout between the two show a bit of that.

Easier start for Kotoshogiku from an M8 spot.   Love to see him climb back to face sanyuku ranks. 

Ura looked strong.   Hope he goes 6-1 or better..

Edited September 11, 2018 by robnplunder

[Bumpkin 438]

7 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I'm not convinced he will make it to Makuuchi.

Enho is Hakuho's deshi. They practice with each other. Enho's potential will not be limited by his height or weight. Shin-gi-tai. Heart-Technique-Body. In that order.

[Rocks 1,810]

13 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

You also said in the Haru 2017 recruit thread "167cm? I'm  sorry but this kid is going nowhere..."

Perhaps he might just be better than you think?

if you call  winning 5 matches out of 17 in the bottom of Juryo going somewhere than I guess he's going somewhere. BTW, those 5 wins came against guys who are 21, 21, 23, 23. and 24 with a total combined time as sekitori of 16 basho. When he beats some veterans that aren't recovering from a major injury or on the downside their career we can talk about going somewhere.  Is he smart and good at sumo? Yes, he is. He targets guys legs and they aren't used to it as most can't be bothered. But talent can only do so much to overcome a lack of physical ability. In a team sport a guy like him could become a specialist and fill a role but sumo is head to head.

He's got Jokuryu tonight and he has a good record against him so he has a good shot tonight. But I wouldn't say that if Joker didn't have a bum leg. He will face Gagamaru and Akua who he has a decent shot against simply because they are lazy. Outside of that I don't see him beating anyone else in Juryo unless he pulls a henka and his opponent practically walks himself out of the ring like Daishoho did against him.  Maybe he beats Serio who's hurt pretty bad it seems like. 

[Rocks 1,810]

41 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Ura looked strong.   Hope he goes 6-1 or better..

He looked good. I picked him to go 5-2 only because I think if he gets out of position and has to strain the knee he will not and just give up. As I think he should. He's doing physical therapy here and training more than competing.  Getting  the KK and time in the ring is more important than Yushos at this stage for him. 

[Katooshu 3,485]

I mean you basically said he'd amount to nothing before he first competed as a pro (how much of his amateur career had you even seen at that point?), yet he then tied the all-time record for fastest non-TD to sekitori, has 100 percent KK outside juryo, and got pretty much right back to juryo after demotion. That equals going nowhere?

He's obviously not going to do a speed-run of juryo, and I expect we'll see him flip-flop a bit between makushita and juryo, but he's clearly talented and it seems rather extreme to me to make such bold statements, especially when you've already been off the mark with your predictions. Also remember that a lot of rikishi take some time before they settle in as sekitori...

Edited September 11, 2018 by Katooshu

[rhyen 1,862]

Ura lost today to some nifty footwork from Daishoki. 

[Rocks 1,810]

14 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

I mean you said he'd amount to nothing before he first competed as a pro, yet he then tied the all-time record for fastest non-TD to sekitori, has 100 percent KK outside juryo, and got pretty much right back to juryo after demotion. That equals not amounting to anything?

He's obviously not going to do a speed-run of juryo, and I expect we'll see him flip-flop a bit between makushita and juryo, but he's clearly talented and it seems rather extreme to me to make such bold, absolute statements, especially when you've already been off the mark with your predictions.

Baseball history is littered with guys who did a few months to a year in the majors. The same with other sports. Nobody remembers them. They are called the minor leagues for a reason. When the  guy does something in the paid ranks against healthy veterans you can begin to talk going somewhere. Given his physical abilities? In Sumo? I just don't see how that happens. You may get a hit off a major league pitcher but heart isn't going to give you a good batting percentage against him over a season. You may out think a NBA player on a few plays but brains alone aren't going to beat him over 48 minutes.

Heck, who knows? Maybe Enho will even KK once or twice in Juryo, but it will be the bottom of Juryo most likely.  Given the quality of the guys he has beat? I wouldn't count on him even doing that. 

[Shio-kago 180]

2 hours ago, Pandaazuma said:

...if he decided to take the Ishiura route (i.e. henka everyone on the planet and his granny and his dog). Obviously at that level he would run into guys who can handle that.

I hope I don't live to see Enho become a Henka machine.  The second part of your post, the part about running into guys who can handle that, leads to my reasons for wanting Enho to hang around in Juryo.

The way I see it-- Not all of these guys can handle that, and having to train to deal with, and then wrestle against, a squirmy little fella like Enho, they might learn some things they might otherwise not, which will help them be better Rikishi all-around. If even a few wrestlers improve their skills learning to deal with Enho's tactics and techniques, I think it would help to raise the standard of competition. So Enho may turn out to be a valuable contributor in the upper divisions, even if he personally enjoys limited success. 

Edited September 11, 2018 by Shio-kago