Hakuho's dominance to continue?

[Washuyama 641]

Withe the intai of Harumafuji and it being unknown if Kisenosato or Kakuryu will ever heal enough before they join HMF on the danpatsu schedule, who if anyone will be able to challenge Hakuho??  (I only put Kakuryu in there because he is a yokozuna even though he's only beaten Hakuho six times in 45 bouts). It appears Mitakeumi, Onosho, Takakeisho and maybe a couple others have bright futures, but a couple of good basho doesn't a challenge make.  We always have a few good sanyaku regulars and who's to say those three aren't the next round of Wakanosatos and Akinoshimas; good but not good enough.

Asashoryu, Harumafuji and, more recently, Kisenosato have been able to face the GOAT on almost equal terms.  I think we are going to go the next couple years with Hakuho winning 4 to 6 yusho a year until "the one" appears.  With Chiyonofuji, Takanohana was "the one" and with Takanohana it was Asashoryu.  Asashoryu never met "the one" due to his early intai, and Hakuho was already his equal and still climbing.

Maybe the challenger will never show up and Hakuho will be forced to intai when he reaches the max age of 65? (He should have over 100 yusho by then)

 

[Dapeng 236]

45 minutes ago, Washuyama said:

Withe the intai of Harumafuji and it being unknown if Kisenosato or Kakuryu will ever heal enough before they join HMF on the danpatsu schedule, who if anyone will be able to challenge Hakuho??  (I only put Kakuryu in there because he is a yokozuna even though he's only beaten Hakuho six times in 45 bouts). It appears Mitakeumi, Onosho, Takakeisho and maybe a couple others have bright futures, but a couple of good basho doesn't a challenge make.  We always have a few good sanyaku regulars and who's to say those three aren't the next round of Wakanosatos and Akinoshimas; good but not good enough.

Asashoryu, Harumafuji and, more recently, Kisenosato have been able to face the GOAT on almost equal terms.  I think we are going to go the next couple years with Hakuho winning 4 to 6 yusho a year until "the one" appears.  With Chiyonofuji, Takanohana was "the one" and with Takanohana it was Asashoryu.  Asashoryu never met "the one" due to his early intai, and Hakuho was already his equal and still climbing.

Maybe the challenger will never show up and Hakuho will be forced to intai when he reaches the max age of 65? (He should have over 100 yusho by then)

 

With the unfortunate retirement of Harumafuji,  I believe he has made up his mind to contnue until 2020 and even beyond. My prediction: By the Tokyo Olympic,  he'll be approaching yusho #50, and reach it by the end of 2020. Then he will apply for the Japanese citizenship and retire. 

[maorencze 144]

8 hours ago, Washuyama said:

 With Chiyonofuji, Takanohana was "the one" and with Takanohana it was Asashoryu.  Asashoryu never met "the one" due to his early intai, and Hakuho was already his equal and still climbing.

 

 

Being able to duck like 4-5 of the top dogs certainly helped Takanohana's cause as well, unlike Akebono and Musashimaru. And he still only managed 22 through 10 years of Y/O career, all the while being pampered by everybody and getting a pardon for 7 straight basho absence.

Regarding "Hakuho the unchallenged", don't hold your breath. Though I dislike his attitude perceived from his facial expressions (and I admit I may be entirely wrong judging by face and body language only), Takakeisho is very competent future rival, and (if his body doesn't fail him) Hokutofuji as well. Then there is the wildcard Ura with lower sanyaku future and collecting some kinboshi by surprise quite likely, and despite his age I wouldn't count out Tamawashi as well.

Still not convinced by Onosho, seems to me like much ado about nothing, more similar to what Chiyotairyu has shown me so far than other young guns already mentioned. OTOH who knows, he may be better than I see him to be currently.

Furthermore, if we believe in miracles, Ichinojo might get his back up in shape and build some muscle finally (bad fat-to-lean ratio is killing his back and eventually himself), and even Terunofuji and Endo. If we want to believe, of course

[neonbelly 226]

It blows my mind sometimes when I realize that even with a decade of being the definition of a yokozuna (strong, dominant, intimidating), Hakuho is only 32. Father time will get him eventually but that's not necessarily going to happen any time soon.

In addition to probably being a better natural athlete than any other active rikishi, and possibly any rikishi in history, Hakuho takes better care of himself and trains smarter than any other wrestler so far as I know. He keeps the alcohol to a minimum, trains with weights like other modern elite athletes, and takes the time to properly tend to injuries when his body needs it. Barring something catastrophic he's going to have serious longevity. I've also noticed that Hakuho has slimmed down over the past few years. If you look at him in 2012 and earlier he looks significantly bigger, and controlling his weight as he ages is going to help him stay in fighting form.

His physique is also excellent--his consummate skill means he doesn't have to get too big to compensate for any technical gaps--his weight is concentrated in leg and back muscle, meaning much of his weight is "weight that moves itself" rather than dead weight that'll slow him down--in this regard he's much like Taiho and Asashoryu.

He's somehow strong enough to bang with the big guys, and technical enough to grapple confidently with the tricky guys like Ura, Harumafuji, etc. He has no apparent weaknesses and there's no "blueprint" for imagining what an effective rival would look like.

He also seems to have the right stuff psychologically--never nervous, over eager, and totally resistant to demoralization.

[Washuyama 641]

2 hours ago, maorencze said:

Takakeisho is very competent future rival, and (if his body doesn't fail him) Hokutofuji as well. Then there is the wildcard Ura ...I wouldn't count out Tamawashi as well.

Still not convinced by Onosho...

Furthermore, if we believe in miracles, Ichinojo might get his back up in shape ...and even Terunofuji and Endo. If we want to believe, of course

Takakeisho, Onosho, Ura may have bright futures, but I think their height disadvantage will prevent them from having much success against Hak.  (They still may rise on the banzuke, but they will rarely, if ever beat Hakuho).  

Tamawashi?  Maybe once a year or so, but like you said, age is a factor.  

Ichinojo probably will never get his weight where it needs to be..

I thought Terunofuji was going to be the next great one, but like many others before him (like Baruto), injuries, injuries, injuries....

Of the ones you mentioned, Endo appears to be a possibility, but hasn't shown enough consistency to get there.

Hokutofuji?? Ask me again around Nagoya time for a broader sample size, but maybe...

[Tsuchinoninjin 1,276]

Not nervous is exactly right. He can get up on the dohyo in that public space and unflichingly agitate the kyokai the exact amount to where nobody knows if it's on purpose or not. It is just another skill, albeit a little twisted, that he's been able to master. Putting that on display has to be intimidating to maegashira rikishi.

Going forward I wonder if that display (interview, yoshikaze, Endo elbow smash) was a one time thing to cover the scandal and he'll think "I gave it a shot" and return to normal levels of hakuhoness, or, with the recent outcomes he's gonna have a semi permanent break with the kyokai and the super charged extra curricular dohyo activity will continue for multiple basho. If it's the latter the next few basho will be hard to watch...

 

[neonbelly 226]

24 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Not nervous is exactly right. He can get up on the dohyo in that public space and unflichingly agitate the kyokai the exact amount to where nobody knows if it's on purpose or not. It is just another skill, albeit a little twisted, that he's been able to master. Putting that on display has to be intimidating to maegashira rikishi.

Going forward I wonder if that display (interview, yoshikaze, Endo elbow smash) was a one time thing to cover the scandal and he'll think "I gave it a shot" and return to normal levels of hakuhoness, or, with the recent outcomes he's gonna have a semi permanent break with the kyokai and the super charged extra curricular dohyo activity will continue for multiple basho. If it's the latter the next few basho will be hard to watch...

 

I think Hakuho's matured to the point where he understands "not bad for a Mongolian" is all he's going to get from the Kyokai, so he isn't going to sweat their minor reproofs and reprimands. Part of Hakuho's success is that so many wrestlers look visibly rattled when they take him on--partly because he's so good at sumo, and partly because he's a devil on the dohyo. As Kisenosato's celebrated promotion showed, the Japanese will always esteem him, but never love him like they will one of their own. His 40 championships don't mean much juxtaposed with a Japanese ozeki finally breaking through.

Hakuho's role is to be a dragon. Respected, feared, but not loved. And if the Japanese don't like him snorting some extra fire after a win, then let one of their heroes go and slay him.

[maorencze 144]

13 minutes ago, neonbelly said:

I think Hakuho's matured to the point where he understands "not bad for a Mongolian" is all he's going to get from the Kyokai, so he isn't going to sweat their minor reproofs and reprimands. Part of Hakuho's success is that so many wrestlers look visibly rattled when they take him on--partly because he's so good at sumo, and partly because he's a devil on the dohyo. As Kisenosato's celebrated promotion showed, the Japanese will always esteem him, but never love him like they will one of their own. His 40 championships don't mean much juxtaposed with a Japanese ozeki finally breaking through.

Hakuho's role is to be a dragon. Respected, feared, but not loved. And if the Japanese don't like him snorting some extra fire after a win, then let one of their heroes go and slay him.

In sports movies and sports manga/anime, every big hero needs a respectable top opponent, a bit of a villain but someone you KNOW is bad but can't help but like and respect for what he brings onto the story and how his power brings out the best out of heroes. And in that sense Hakuho fills this role perfectly, which is why I like him - kinda like some of the best "good guy villains" you remember

[CT3* 331]

I hope that recent developments inspire Hakuho to go on an extended ass-kicking spree.  

[Bumpkin 438]

4 hours ago, maorencze said:

Being able to duck like 4-5 of the top dogs certainly helped Takanohana's cause as well, unlike Akebono and Musashimaru. And he still only managed 22 through 10 years of Y/O career, all the while being pampered by everybody and getting a pardon for 7 straight basho absence.

Regarding "Hakuho the unchallenged", don't hold your breath. Though I dislike his attitude perceived from his facial expressions (and I admit I may be entirely wrong judging by face and body language only), Takakeisho is very competent future rival, and (if his body doesn't fail him) Hokutofuji as well. Then there is the wildcard Ura with lower sanyaku future and collecting some kinboshi by surprise quite likely, and despite his age I wouldn't count out Tamawashi as well.

Still not convinced by Onosho, seems to me like much ado about nothing, more similar to what Chiyotairyu has shown me so far than other young guns already mentioned. OTOH who knows, he may be better than I see him to be currently.

Furthermore, if we believe in miracles, Ichinojo might get his back up in shape and build some muscle finally (bad fat-to-lean ratio is killing his back and eventually himself), and even Terunofuji and Endo. If we want to believe, of course

You forgot to mention (future Ozeki) Mitakeumi. BTW, Mitakeumi will turn 25 on Christmas.

[ryafuji 815]

Hakuho has said he will retire after the Olympics - "I'm quitting without hesitation" - so no need to worry about him dominating until age 65

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/27/sumo/basho-reports/hakuho-relieved-finish-difficult-year-winning-note/#.Wh7Rre-nGUk

[Dapeng 236]

1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

Hakuho has said he will retire after the Olympics - "I'm quitting without hesitation" - so no need to worry about him dominating until age 65

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/27/sumo/basho-reports/hakuho-relieved-finish-difficult-year-winning-note/#.Wh7Rre-nGUk

Not before reaching yusho #50.

[Washuyama 641]

1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

Hakuho has said he will retire after the Olympics - "I'm quitting without hesitation" - so no need to worry about him dominating until age 65

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/27/sumo/basho-reports/hakuho-relieved-finish-difficult-year-winning-note/#.Wh7Rre-nGUk

I'll believe it when I see the pics/video of his danpatsu....

[rhyen 1,846]

Well...both oyakata in the Miyagino heya were born in 1957, so their retirement date is around 2022 at the earliest if he wants to keep the kabu transfer in-house.

[Burajirotono 99]

Hard to predict. Every rikishi can get a bad injury everytime they step on dohyo. Hak too.

I think with some luck he have two more years in good condition for the sanyaku level.

45y seems reachable. 

With Haru, Kise, Kak and Teru out of the game he is peerless like Ozeki Raiden.

Goeido and Takayasu cant handle him, Mitakeumi still have a lot to learn. I dont see any of the kids in Haks level in 5, 7 years...Sure Sato is a dangerous litlle fucker but...Come on...Its a dwarf. Onosho do a kind of "all in" sumo every bout, easy prey...Enho maybe? Hahaha...

Hakuho will keep ruling.

 

[maorencze 144]

3 hours ago, Bumpkin said:

You forgot to mention (future Ozeki) Mitakeumi. BTW, Mitakeumi will turn 25 on Christmas.

Not sure about his feet, or more exactly already gave up. But since I gave Hoku benefit of doubt, I should here because Mita proved himself more

[Kaminariyuki 500]

6 hours ago, neonbelly said:

Hakuho's role is to be a dragon. Respected, feared, but not loved. And if the Japanese don't like him snorting some extra fire after a win, then let one of their heroes go and slay him.

LOL, I know a bar (that I love) in Ueno where you wouldn't want to say this out loud in Japanese. ;)

I think Hakuho has challengers coming up, including Mitakeumi and Takakeisho, and Takarafuji for that matter. Aside from being slow as molasses, he's taken Hakuho 2 of his last 5 bouts, and should have gotten him on Day 13 this tournament. If Takayasu can recover from his injuries, he's clearly a threat as well, although I don't know his recent record against Hakuho. There is little question,however, that Harumafuji was the strongest challenger to the dohyo menace Hakuho.

The flip side is that without major challengers, the Hak could go soft.  ...nah, just kidding. The guy clearly lives to compete.

[bettega 431]

If we cut one foot and one hand (opposite sides, off course) of Hakuho maybe we could have some competition.

But he'll get old eventually.

[Suwihuto 133]

It always feels to me like periods of dominance in sport will never end (Tiger Woods, Michael Schumacher, Wigan RL are three that immediately spring to mind), but they inevitably do. Sometimes the rules are changed to make it happen!

[wys 55]

The only person that can take down Hakuho is Hakuho himself, i.e., injuries.  I can't believe that Hakuho is still only 32 but in sumo-terms, he is on the older end of the spectrum. With the punishing honbasho/jungyo schedule, this can take a heavy toll on his body. I imagine that the younger guys, with all else being equal, can recover more quickly from training, tournaments, touring, etc. Maybe the gap between Hakuho and the young up-and-comers like Onosho, Takakeisho, Mitakeumi, Hokutofuji, will narrow, if it does, mainly due to this factor.

Cheers,

 

Edited December 1, 2017 by wys

[PawnSums 59]

orora, hanakaze, and hattorizakura will be the next three yokozuna

breaking news! we'll never have another yokozuna

[itchyknee 60]

On 11/29/2017 at 07:27, ryafuji said:

Hakuho has said he will retire after the Olympics - "I'm quitting without hesitation" - so no need to worry about him dominating until age 65

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2017/11/27/sumo/basho-reports/hakuho-relieved-finish-difficult-year-winning-note/#.Wh7Rre-nGUk

Ahhh....

The GOAT in Mongolian wrestling won 13 11 yearly tournaments.  Hakuho would need 78 66 championships to match this.  I thought he might have gone for it.

Edited December 14, 2017 by itchyknee
mistaken # of tournament wins

[Benevolance 2,511]

Wait, are we giving up on Gagamaru for Yokozuna? I just got the t-shirts printed and everything...

[Kishinoyama 596]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

Wait, are we giving up on Gagamaru for Yokozuna? I just got the t-shirts printed and everything...

He must restart his Ozeki run first. Once he reaches Makuuchi again. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Kishinoyama

[OneManGang 14]

41 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

He must restart his Ozeki run first. Once he reaches Makuuchi again. 

He has a career as a ballet dancer lined up for him after retirement. No MMA or K-1 for him.