Nagoya 2014 Discussion Thread

[Kotogouryuu 131]

Well, in the race of interesting new-comers, Osunaraashi seems to have stolen the spotlight from Endo. I do wonder what is up with Endo. He has displayed fantastic skills to compensate for his slightly lacking power, but now he just gets overrun. Has he been injured, is he focusing his training on putting on more mass and thus hindering his capability to compete for now, or what?

[evilwaldo 11]

This goes back to his family issues. After a traumatic event there is a feeling of anger as if who do I blame or why did this happen to me?

He could be working through his grief.

I cannot blame Hakuho for an extra shove. A miscarriage and sick father while you are trying to break an all time record is a lot of personal stress to shoulder.

Edited July 17, 2014 by evilwaldo

[Kuroyama 715]

Of course, people need to pretend that Hakuho's character is much more limited than it is (to an almost comical degree), or they wouldn't be able to yap about him acting "uncharacteristically"... For the press, I guess it's mostly just page-filler because they can't yap about the phenomenal Endo right now.

The only time I saw him up close, at the 2008 Los Angeles jungyo, he was anything but stoic. He got eliminated from the tournament unexpectedly -- I forget by whom -- and since I was sitting near the hanamichi I could see he was very upset as he walked off, frowning and muttering to himself. Kinda surprising he took it so hard just at a jungyo.

Asashoryu ended up winning the tournament, which was probably for the best in terms of public relations because he knows how to work a crowd.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Hakuho becomes Asashoryu shocker!!

[Asojima 2,874]

... what is up with Endo. He has displayed fantastic skills to compensate for his slightly lacking power, but now he just gets overrun. Has he been injured, is he focusing his training on putting on more mass and thus hindering his capability to compete for now, or what?

(1) His inter-basho life has devolved into a mass of media events. Even his keiko is an open-to-the-public hype session rather than a serious training effort.

(2) Familiarity is a bitch. The upper level rikishi have had time to observe his canned attack/retreat/divert/attack routine and have developed defensive strategies to neutralize it. He needs to acquire a new horse.

[bettega 431]

I think Hakuho's mood is from this sad occurrence

His hero-father is also seriously debilitated by disease (don't know what it is). He is under a lot of stress. I suspect that there has been some yellow journalism related to his problems which has led to two-way antagonism between him and the press. There has been a decided change in his public demeanor in the last few months. He's human.

And more: If all this serious problems all that he does is some extra shove (not that serious, in my opinion) and less talk to the press, well... he's a much better human being than most.

I even more fan and hope him get a Zensho to blow off some steam

[Asojima 2,874]

The only time I saw him up close, at the 2008 Los Angeles jungyo, he was anything but stoic. He got eliminated from the tournament unexpectedly -- I forget by whom -- and since I was sitting near the hanamichi I could see he was very upset as he walked off, frowning and muttering to himself. Kinda surprising he took it so hard just at a jungyo.

The planned scenario was that Hakuho and Asashoryu would meet in the 2 Day championship match. During the Day 2 final, Hakuho and Kisenosato were busy putting on a show for the crowd, and Hakuho accidentally stepped out of the ring. It caused a lot of embarrassment and high profile instant replanning. He was probably just upset about his blunder. Edited July 17, 2014 by Asojima

[Asashosakari 19,669]

Couldn't help it...full list of wins-against-yokozuna-to-start, since 1945:

2 kinboshi to start

1951.05 Wakabayama (2x same basho)

1956.05 Wakahaguro (2x same basho) [Ozeki]

1961.07 Sadanoyama (2x same basho; also third bout as S in next basho) [Yokozuna]

1966.05 Kirinji (2nd in next basho) [Ozeki]

1966.11 Misogidori (2x same basho)

1969.03 Tochifuji (2nd in 1971.05)

1984.09 Konishiki (2x same basho; also third bout as S in next basho) [Ozeki]

1986.09 Takanofuji (2nd in 1987.09)

Special 2-win cases

1973.09 Onishiki (2nd kinboshi in 1974.09; 0-3 record as K in between)

1981.03 Hokutenyu (2nd as K in 1981.09) [Ozeki]

1983.11 Onokuni (won first 3 kinboshi opportunities in that basho; 0-3 record as K before) [Yokozuna]

1994.03 Kaio (2nd and 3rd kinboshi in 1997.03; 4-21 record as S/K in between) [Ozeki]

1 kinboshi to start

1948.10 Yoshibayama [Yokozuna]

1951.09 Kuninobori

1952.09 Asashio [Yokozuna]

1955.05 Wakamaeda

1955.09 Wakanoumi

1957.09 Fusanishiki

1957.09 Tokinishiki

1959.01 Wakachichibu

1961.05 Tochinoumi [Yokozuna]

1964.05 Sawahikari

1964.11 Asasegawa

1965.03 Wakasugiyama

1969.03 Toda

1969.07 Asanobori

1972.03 Kaiketsu [Ozeki]

1972.05 Nagahama

1974.01 Wakajishi

1974.03 Arase

1975.07 Aobajo

1981.11 Hidanohana

1982.05 Wakanofuji

1984.07 Tochitsukasa

1987.01 Masurao

1988.09 Akinoshima

1990.11 Takatoriki

1994.01 Musoyama [Ozeki]

1994.03 Oginishiki

1998.03 Shikishima

1999.05 Chiyotenzan

2000.11 Kotomitsuki [Ozeki]

2002.07 Shimotori

2013.03 Chiyotairyu

2014.07 Osunaarashi

Special 1-win cases

1988.01 Tochinowaka (first kinboshi opportunity; 1-9 record as S/K before)

1989.05 Misugisato (first kinboshi opportunity; 0-3 record as K before)

1993.03 Wakashoyo (as Komusubi; lost first kinboshi opportunity in 1993.09)

Edited July 17, 2014 by Asashosakari

[torquato 1,075]

[Endo] needs to acquire a new horse.

No he doesn't. He needs more protection from his oyakata. With his 24 years he's basically just a young child. With all this trouble around...

Reminds me of German young talented football player Julian Draxler. At the age of 16 or 17 his pro-coach asked him to quit his High-school degree. "He would not have needed futher education to earn money and make his way".

BTW, I like following Osunaarashi and Endo how differently they move on in their carreers... There could be a lot to write about...

[Asojima 2,874]

Has anyone bothered to count the number of yokozunas in that list? B-)

[torquato 1,075]

Couldn't help it...full list of wins-against-yokozuna-to-start, since 1945:

Wow, you really like to go into research...

Had anybody on the list a later Oseki or Yokuzuna career? I'm not acquainted with theese names... :(

[Asashosakari 19,669]

Couldn't help it...full list of wins-against-yokozuna-to-start, since 1945:

Wow, you really like to go into research...

Had anybody on the list a later Oseki or Yokuzuna career? I'm not acquainted with theese names... :(

Highlighted now.

[Fukurou 534]

What happened to the tossing of zabutons? I haven't seen any on the videos.

Mmmmhhh.... Good question actually. Perhaps the audience thinks that Kakuryu isn't worth that hassle..?

座布団を投げないでください。

A few years back, didn't the kyokai try to discourage the tossing (throwing?) of zabutons because people were getting hit? IIRC, they made them double sized and heavier (and so harder to throw) at at least one arena. I don't recall if it was Nagoya or not.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Fukurou

[Masumasumasu 902]

Notwithstanding:

[Mukonoso 273]

Is it just me or does it seem that Endou hasn't been doing very well since he started having his hair put up? Too tight? Migraine? Or has he just hit his wall?

[Masumasumasu 902]

I have pondered long and hard and have come to the following conclusion. Kachi-age is a kind of terrorism.

Either you get your face smashed in or you don't. But there's always that question of 'if'?

If Sandstorm were to use his elbow smash every time, his opponents would become wise to it. But if he decides to use it sparingly, he will become truly dangerous.

The fear of the kachi-age (apparent in both Kisenosato and Kakuryu) gave Oosunaarashi a huge advantage.

Kachi-age or no, Booty has trained his opponents to fear him.

Will Harumafuji flinch tonight?

[Masumasumasu 902]

Is it just me or does it seem that Endou hasn't been doing very well since he started having his hair put up? Too tight? Migraine? Or has he just hit his wall?

Neither. Extreme pressure.

He's young and he FLOWS. The lad's got a good chance. Let's not write him off just yet.

[Vikanohara 171]

Endo's just taking a small step back to make a giant leap forward.

[Gurowake 4,109]

If Sandstorm were to use his elbow smash every time,

...

The fear of the kachi-age (apparent in both Kisenosato and Kakuryu) gave Oosunaarashi a huge advantage.

...

Booty has trained his opponents to fear him.

Having a lot of names to call someone makes them much nicer to write about too instead of having to repeat their shikona over and over. I remember from reading classic literature that those languages would be filled with a variety of names for certain important people; although some of that would be to make it easier for them to fit the meter, it's sorta set a standard that one should try to vary one's representation of another if possible. I'd prefer to call Harumafuji "Ama" at least half the time (sometimes all the time just to make things shorter), but pretty much everyone else all you have is their shikona. For example, the use of Kisenosato's original (through-Juryo) shikona is pretty much unknown. It's probably why some who Talk about Sumo like to come up with ridiculous nicknames for people, as stupid as they usually sound.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Gurowake

[Benevolance 2,511]

Endo is poised and talented and ranked higher than he should be, for how long he's been in professional sumo. It's what in other sports might be called the sophomore jinx, where after an incredible rookie season, the athlete performs...not necessarily poorly, but poorer than expectations based on the rookie season. He's got the skills and talent, and if the media circus lets off enough, he'll develop the strength to compete.

Osunaarashi, on the other hand, came into sumo with a lot of size and strength. His shisho's job is to try and develop his skill set, so that he's more than a Kokkai or an Aran. And I think he's doing alright. I think 3M is bang on, with his observations about the fear of the kachi-age. It buys Boody some time to develop the rest of his game.

I like both of these guys, so I hope they continue to flourish.

[Gurowake 4,109]

New Jonidan musings:

Shodai has been utterly dominant, looking like he's one of those guys coming off injury that missed 5 basho. But there are some other guys new to Jonidan to watch for, in rough order of dominance:

(edit: to be clear, this means career losses excluding Mz)

Shiba - only loss to Shodai

Nagao - only losses to Shodai and Shiba

Shuji - only losses to Nagao

Takagi - only losses to Shodai and Nagao

Harada - a bit more complex. Undefeated this basho, last basho losses only to Nagao and Shuji, previous basho losses in ring only to rikishi now in Sandanme, Kotaro and Mizuta, who are both doing well and may be undefeated (Mizuta's match today was apparently skipped on Arabira's coverage, and the result hasn't shown up on the NSK site as of this post). That is, similar to the above, his only losses are within a select group of high-acheiving rikishi.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Gurowake

[shimodahito 317]

Having a lot of names to call someone makes them much nicer to write about too instead of having to repeat their shikona over and over. I remember from reading classic literature that those languages would be filled with a variety of names for certain important people; although some of that would be to make it easier for them to fit the meter, it's sorta set a standard that one should try to vary one's representation of another if possible. I'd prefer to call Harumafuji "Ama" at least half the time (sometimes all the time just to make things shorter), but pretty much everyone else all you have is their shikona. For example, the use of Kisenosato's original (through-Juryo) shikona is pretty much unknown. It's probably why some who Talk about Sumo like to come up with ridiculous nicknames for people, as stupid as they usually sound.

reminds me of kintaro's musings... he had some very imaginative and entertaining alt-shikona's in his musings years ago when he was a regular contributor to the yahoo mail group...

"sandstorm" and "ama" work for me!

[Asojima 2,874]

Day 6 - An amazing match between Satoyama and Tochinoshin

Edited July 18, 2014 by Asojima

[kuroimori 1,634]

Day 6 - An amazing match between

amazing AND chain-breaking! :-)

[Masumasumasu 902]

most of the whining about "extra shoves" is just that, whining. Nearly all the time it's simply a case of: Rikishi A starts to extend his arms for a shove while Rikishi B is still inside the tawara, but actually hits the shove when Rikishi B has already stepped out - what's he supposed to do, stop his motion in the split-second in between?

LOL.

Kisenostato, Homasho, Kotoshogiku....name your Japanese rikishi. All are able to refrain from all of this extra-curricular nonsense.

Like it or not, how a person behaves is a big deal in Japan. Yokozuna are not exempt.

Kagamio. Late shove vs. Tokushoryu.

Not Japanese.