Nagoya 2014 Discussion Thread

[torquato 1,075]

We were discussing and critizising Osunaarashi and his kachiage here lately. Just saw on his twitter account that he was retweeting quite a harsh comment on that:

Retweet:
"@araibira @Oosunaarashi That kachiage is not sumo even if not penalized. Sumo is not just winning. You don't understand aesthetics of sumo."

To give a harsh critic like that (if not even an insult, as it were) such a presence in your own space calls for my respect, somehow.

I didn't like the kachiage myself lately. Today he he gave the answere and showed that he can do different. A good answere.

I still have the impression that his success is somehow a bit premature, though...

[krindel 688]

Konishiki was the last rikishi to win his first two Yokozuna bouts as Maegashira

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1287&b=198409

Off topic, but this must have been one heck of a banzuke... 3 Yokozuna,4 future Yokozuna, 4 Ozeki, 2 future Ozeki, and almost everyone else a future or former sanyaku...

And to top it all, the Yusho went to the M12W who out of those 13, managed to fight only then-Sekiwake Onokuni, then-M6 Konishiki and two of the current ozeki :-p

[Asashosakari 20,223]

Later rikishi who won their first encounter with a Yokozuna:

Oginishiki

Shikishima

Chiyotenzan

Shimotori

Illustrious company indeed. ;-)

[torquato 1,075]

Where has Endō gone?

Yes a valid question. I guess the marketing and popularity hype lately is just too much. I could well understand. I hope that will settle down at least a bit and that he will focus better on his own sumo...

[Kintamayama 47,178]

Hakuhou's hinkaku questions continue. Today, he pushed Yoshikaze's face in a not too nice way after the win, and nearly forgot to crouch to get the envelopes. All papers are mentioning it. Later, he was asked about the other Yokozuna already having a loss each and if he hoped they would give him a good race ( a dumb question, granted..) "It's not for me to say. They're both doing their best!!" he barked angrily.

[Kintamayama 47,178]

I really dont get all the talks about extra shove. This is competitive contact competition, dominance is displayed. I am much more interested in seeing this kind of emotions, than just plain faces ( i have no idea why its required ). Thats why i miss Asashoryu, he had life inside him.

It's what sumo is all about.

[ALAKTORN 346]

nearly forgot to crouch to get the envelopes.

I’m not seeing that. Anyone can explain?

[Asashosakari 20,223]

I really dont get all the talks about extra shove. This is competitive contact competition, dominance is displayed. I am much more interested in seeing this kind of emotions, than just plain faces ( i have no idea why its required ). Thats why i miss Asashoryu, he had life inside him.

It's what sumo is all about.

That notwithstanding, most of the whining about "extra shoves" is just that, whining. Nearly all the time it's simply a case of: Rikishi A starts to extend his arms for a shove while Rikishi B is still inside the tawara, but actually hits the shove when Rikishi B has already stepped out - what's he supposed to do, stop his motion in the split-second in between? People need to get real and stop acting like the super slomo repeat they watch on TV is identical to the rikishis' first-hand experience of the situation.

And as for the additional complaint of "shoving too hard" - hands up, who here prefers Toyohibiki's habit of losing bouts he's already had 95% won over Hakuho's (and some other guys') habit of making 100% sure the opponent is actually out? It's a single-round hand-to-hand combat sport, there's no room for "doing just enough to cross the finish line in first place" tactical maneuvering.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Masumasumasu 902]

most of the whining about "extra shoves" is just that, whining. Nearly all the time it's simply a case of: Rikishi A starts to extend his arms for a shove while Rikishi B is still inside the tawara, but actually hits the shove when Rikishi B has already stepped out - what's he supposed to do, stop his motion in the split-second in between?

LOL.

Kisenostato, Homasho, Kotoshogiku....name your Japanese rikishi. All are able to refrain from all of this extra-curricular nonsense.

Like it or not, how a person behaves is a big deal in Japan. Yokozuna are not exempt.

[Kintamayama 47,178]

I really dont get all the talks about extra shove. This is competitive contact competition, dominance is displayed. I am much more interested in seeing this kind of emotions, than just plain faces ( i have no idea why its required ). Thats why i miss Asashoryu, he had life inside him.

It's what sumo is all about.

That notwithstanding, most of the whining about "extra shoves" is just that, whining. Nearly all the time it's simply a case of: Rikishi A starts to extend his arms for a shove while Rikishi B is still inside the tawara, but actually hits the shove when Rikishi B has already stepped out - what's he supposed to do, stop his motion in the split-second in between? People need to get real and stop acting like the super slomo repeat they watch on TV is identical to the rikishis' first-hand experience of the situation.

And as for the additional complaint of "shoving too hard" - hands up, who here prefers Toyohibiki's habit of losing bouts he's already had 95% won over Hakuho's (and some other guys') habit of making 100% sure the opponent is actually out? It's a single-round hand-to-hand combat sport, there's no room for "doing just enough to cross the finish line in first place" tactical maneuvering.

Notwithstanding, we both know that in these specific cases Hakuhou is totally doing it on purpose. When it is accompanied by "the face", there is no doubt. It wouldn't be worth mentioning in the Japanese press. but it is being very widely mentioned and very judgmental, not in a good way..

[Kintamayama 47,178]

nearly forgot to crouch to get the envelopes.

I’m not seeing that. Anyone can explain?

I'm only translating..

[bettega 433]

I think Hakuho's mood is from this sad occurrence

[Masumasumasu 902]

Notwithstanding.

[Asashosakari 20,223]

Notwithstanding, we both know that in these specific cases Hakuhou is totally doing it on purpose. When it is accompanied by "the face", there is no doubt.

Yes, but so what? He's an aging dai-yokozuna under assault by two (or three, counting Kise) pretenders to his throne. He's not doing anything unfair, and anyone expecting him to do big-cuddly-teddy-bear sumo under these circumstances needs to go back to watching soccer or something.

The hand on Yoshikaze's face today was borderline jerk behaviour, I'll agree with that, but probably wouldn't even have been noticed by anybody if they hadn't already been whipped into a frenzy over the Homasho non-story.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Notwithstanding, we both know that in these specific cases Hakuhou is totally doing it on purpose. When it is accompanied by "the face", there is no doubt.

Yes, but so what? He's an aging dai-yokozuna under assault by two (or three, counting Kise) pretenders to his throne. He's not doing anything unfair, and anyone expecting him to do big-cuddly-teddy-bear sumo under these circumstances needs to go back to watching soccer or something.The hand on Yoshikaze's face today was borderline jerk behaviour, I'll agree with that, but probably wouldn't even have been noticed by anybody if they hadn't already been whipped into a frenzy over the Homasho non-story.

Taiho had competition. He didn't behave this way.

Neither did Takanohana.

[Kintamayama 47,178]

Notwithstanding, we both know that in these specific cases Hakuhou is totally doing it on purpose. When it is accompanied by "the face", there is no doubt.

Yes, but so what? He's an aging dai-yokozuna under assault by two (or three, counting Kise) pretenders to his throne. He's not doing anything unfair, and anyone expecting him to do big-cuddly-teddy-bear sumo under these circumstances needs to go back to watching soccer or something.

The hand on Yoshikaze's face today was borderline jerk behaviour, I'll agree with that, but probably wouldn't even have been noticed by anybody if they hadn't already been whipped into a frenzy over the Homasho non-story.

I think the point is that it's Hakuhou. Something has obviously changed in his demeanor. I can understand him going ballistic when Kisenosato pisses him off or someone tries a henka or dares to slap him in the face but today Yoshikaze went out of his way to NOT slap Hakuhou in the face during their tsuppari exchanges- so much so it's comical, and yet, that really dismissive "here doggie" pat at the end happened. And it most certainly would have been mentioned as it is so out of character for Hakuhou.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kintamayama

[Vikanohara 171]

late day 5 highlights

Jk : Enshunada (1-1) - Takashinryu (1-1), nice turnaround

Jd- : Yamazaki (0-2) - Kaikoki (0-2), utchari again, but right decision ?

Jd~: Tochitensho (2-0) - Taoka (2-0), what a long bout full of action ! (Sakke...)

Jd+ : Takamai (2-0) - Adachi (2-0), odd fight :-S

Sd- : Kotaro (2-0) - Koshinishiki (2-0), good defense

Sd~: Hokkairyu (2-0) - Minatosho (2-0)
Sd~: Kotonoshu (1-1) - Aragyoshi (1-1), another Houdini :-P

Sd+: Abiko (2-0) - Asakoki (2-0), just impressive awesomeness ! (Showing off...)
Sd+: Okoryu (2-0) - Migikataagari (2-0)

Ms- : Chiyoarashi (1-1) - Masunosho (1-1), surprise loss already for Chiyoarashi

Ms~: Kotodaigo (2-0) - Dairaido (2-0), HIGHLIGHT OF THE DAY !!! (Uwatenage...) (W00t, w00t, w00t...) (Dribbling...)

Ms+: Keitenkai (2-0) - Kotokobai (2-0), froggy jumped all over the stage that day, watch him jump (Bouncing of excitement...) (Laughing...)

J- : Kyokutaisei (2-2) - Daieisho (3-1), the two newcomers went for a nice fight

J+ : Amuru (3-1) - Satoyama (2-2)

M : Tamawashi (2-2) - Shohozan (0-4), living on the edge, hanging in the balance

S : Kakuryu (3-1) - Osunaarashi (2-2), of course this was today's top fight with sanyaku involved
S : Ikioi (0-4) - Kotoshogiku (4-0), though this one was worth to mention as well
S : Hakuho (4-0) - Yoshikaze (3-1), and even this one was very entertaining to watch, liking Yoshi more each day

Edited July 17, 2014 by Vikanohara

[Asashosakari 20,223]

I think the point is that it's Hakuhou.

Meh, it's hardly the first time he's acted in an (allegedly) controversial manner. People just aren't willing to accept that that's always been just as much a part of his character as the unwavering stoicism he displays most of the time.

Of course, people need to pretend that Hakuho's character is much more limited than it is (to an almost comical degree), or they wouldn't be able to yap about him acting "uncharacteristically"... For the press, I guess it's mostly just page-filler because they can't yap about the phenomenal Endo right now.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Asashosakari

[Asojima 2,874]

I think Hakuho's mood is from this sad occurrence

His hero-father is also seriously debilitated by disease (don't know what it is). He is under a lot of stress. I suspect that there has been some yellow journalism related to his problems which has led to two-way antagonism between him and the press. There has been a decided change in his public demeanor in the last few months. He's human.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Asojima

[torquato 1,075]

Thanks for these digests Vikanohana. They are really worth something if you don't find the time to watch 10 hours of sumo a day.^^

[Vikanohara 171]

Thanks, today I spiced them up with some glitter & glamour as well. :-)

[Vikanohara 171]

Ms+: Keitenkai (2-0) - Kotokobai (2-0)

Very first time for me to see souch a double henka. Can't recall to have seen it ever before. Wicked ! B-)

[torquato 1,075]

Somehow reminds me of Takanoyama. This swift hurling around, avoiding the opponents superiour weight and force... by swift movements.

[BuBa 77]

What happened to the tossing of zabutons? I haven't seen any on the videos.

[torquato 1,075]

What happened to the tossing of zabutons? I haven't seen any on the videos.

Mmmmhhh.... Good question actually. Perhaps the audience thinks that Kakuryu isn't worth that hassle..?

座布団を投げないでください。