Should Hakuho Retire?

[Asashosakari 19,653]

The actual fans in the arena will probably think he's cheering for Wakanoho for some reason.

[Masumasumasu 902]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

A certain respect is expected of the fans as well. There are a number of no no's. If that isn't one, it should be.

I did say 'if'. Honestly, I would never have the guts to say something like that in person. Those guys are more than a bit intimidating.

Still, wouldn't the audience simply equate my comments with those of a gaijin barbarian?

[Kintamayama 45,524]

Still, wouldn't the audience simply equate my comments with those of a gaijin barbarian?

Probably, but some might raise an eyebrow to your actual accusation that he henkas, which he doesn't. If you called him a "dirty fighter" or "a hinkaku-less Yokozuna", that would be more understood. He just simply doesn't henka, unless he's teaching Kisenosato manners. Elbowing someone in the face is not henka, it's kenka.

[Tsubame 368]

He just simply doesn't henka, unless he's teaching Kisenosato manners.

But that's the point. He is the yokozuna, the sole undisputed top fighter on the banzuke. In the first place his manners had to cope with Kisenosatos play without any more reaction than an raised eyebrow and a victory afterwards. And secondly he is technically more developed then Kisenosato, so he should be able to show his superiority and win by seldom used kimarite. But what he did showed was a lack of yokozuna hinkaku.

[Kintamayama 45,524]

He just simply doesn't henka, unless he's teaching Kisenosato manners.

But that's the point. He is the yokozuna, the sole undisputed top fighter on the banzuke. In the first place his manners had to cope with Kisenosatos play without any more reaction than an raised eyebrow and a victory afterwards. And secondly he is technically more developed then Kisenosato, so he should be able to show his superiority and win by seldom used kimarite. But what he did showed was a lack of yokozuna hinkaku.

I have seen many Yokozunas in the past doing all kinds of stuff which were viewed by some as "un- yokozuna-like", mostly to teach their opponents a lesson or to instill fear in their hearts. Nobody was ever reprimanded for once in a while playing the "mentor". The vast majority of fans/officials/Japanese press couldn't care less. The problem starts when a Yokozuna goes overboard and does it a lot, on and off the dohyo. Not our case.

As for Hakuhou and that henka, he did the right thing at the right time.It has nothing to do with technique and superiority. It has everything to do with respecting the Yokozuna, for he is a Yokozuna. (I'd like to have seen Kisenosato try that shit with Asashouryuu.)

Not that it helped to change the biggest over-rated (gifted as he may be, but yet to prove his case even remotely..) spoiled brat in the history of sumo, but that's another story.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Kintamayama

[Skotkotaikai 2]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

They won't get angry because of someone's childish behaviour.

If you insist on getting kicked then try to yorikiri him out of the place.

Btw, I totally agree with Kintamayama's words.

Wish people didn't bother over such small things like one henka by the Yokozuna :( In my opinion people who think it is a big problem are just bored and have nothing better to do, so they focus on small things and act like judges.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Skotkotaikai

[Kuroyama 715]

He just simply doesn't henka, unless he's teaching Kisenosato manners.

But that's the point. He is the yokozuna, the sole undisputed top fighter on the banzuke. In the first place his manners had to cope with Kisenosatos play without any more reaction than an raised eyebrow and a victory afterwards. And secondly he is technically more developed then Kisenosato, so he should be able to show his superiority and win by seldom used kimarite. But what he did showed was a lack of yokozuna hinkaku.

Oh, nonsense. Kisenosato rightly deserves humiliation for these stupid games he plays. It shows a lack of ozeki hinkaku to pull that crap, whether to gain some advantage over a lower-ranker (who he should be able to fight honorably if he deserves his rank) or to try and throw the yokozuna off his sumo (which is disrespectful.)

[Asameshimae 220]

"Still, wouldn't the audience simply equate my comments with those of a gaijin barbarian?"

Maybe, but you would just get very deliberately ignored. Japanese are very good at ignoring aberrant behavior. I used to see it as a weakness, but have come to see it (in most cases anyway) as one of their strengths.

[Masumasumasu 902]

Not that it helped to change the biggest over-rated (gifted as he may be, but yet to prove his case even remotely..) spoiled brat in the history of sumo, but that's another story.

The hatred on this forum for the mighty Kisenosato knows no bounds. One would think that he was Miyazaki Tsutomu.

[Kintamayama 45,524]

Not that it helped to change the biggest over-rated (gifted as he may be, but yet to prove his case even remotely..) spoiled brat in the history of sumo, but that's another story.

The hatred on this forum for the mighty Kisenosato knows no bounds. One would think that he was Miyazaki Tsutomu.

On the contrary sir- I like him a lot. That doesn't change the fact that:

A) He's a spoiled brat.

B) He is totally overrated and pampered by the Kyokai bigwigs, so much so that he was promoted to Ozeki with 32 wins and nobody really objected, although that was a bit, well, strange. It's not that there was a shortage of Ozeki that needed immediate dealing with.

C) The "mighty" Kisenosato can't win more than three in the last five days of a basho this last year (10-15 after becoming Ozeki, not very good..) when it really counts. Because, frankly, he isn't good enough against his peers.

Don't confuse hatred with being annoyed and disappointed with a promising rikishi who is oftentimes a pain in the neck and all points south..

Edited September 30, 2012 by Kintamayama

[勝 Katsu 20]

His level has dropped from ridiculous dominance to dominance, still having most wins in 2012.

Btw., the yoks have made it to German SPIEGEL Online:

http://www.spiegel.d...o-a-857474.html

LOL! That pic in Spiegel is awesome! Harumafuji is all "now you die!" and Haks face is like "ohhhhhhhhhhhssssshhhhhhhiiiittttt!"

[Asameshimae 220]

B) He is totally overrated and pampered by the Kyokai bigwigs, so much so that he was promoted to Ozeki with 32 wins and nobody really objected, although that was a bit, well, strange. It's not that there was a shortage of Ozeki that needed immediate dealing with.

There was all the rigmarole with the untimely death of his oyakata, in the basho before he got promoted, all of which should have suggested to the kyokai to hold off a basho or two and let things simmer down for a few months. Taking things slow has never been a problem for the kyokai before, I was more than a little surprised when they gave it to him.

[Treblemaker 254]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, ...

Some people have class. They treat people with such and are treated as such in return.

Re: your question. In my opinion, to pull a demeaning stunt like that (which normally would occur only at Philadelphia sporting events and the occasional English football games), well, I dunno. Some people walk around with their fly open. Others pour catsup over a carefully prepared steak. Some people never hold the door open for others. Others cut people's cars off on the highway, then get really upset when they get pulled over, and then call the police names.

There's class, and then there's Class. To even consider doing such (a) at an event of such dignity and tradition (b) in another country not your own © to an athlete who exudes class, not only ON the dohyo but in the community, and not just at time of crisis but regularly and often, well, it's your call.

But if you do decide to pull off such a stunt, don't complain that people don't like you.

[Usagi 36]

Short Hakuho retire?

Short: no

Long: bullshit

Kisenosato has the talent not to lose a fight, but just hasn't the technical skills or the physics to score those on top opf the banzuke. I still expect him to be one day good enough to prove his rank, but his promotion was more a matter of racism than of his results.

But Kisenosato is not to blame for the mistake, the NHK made.

[Fay 1,677]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

Hakuho couldn't care less what you yell but if your are crazy about getting your ass kicked just yell and I will act in place of his tsukebito.

And I thought I would have peaceful games in November ...

[Masumasumasu 902]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

Hakuho couldn't care less what you yell but if your are crazy about getting your ass kicked just yell and I will act in place of his tsukebito.

It's a date.

[Asameshimae 220]

But Kisenosato is not to blame for the mistake, the NHK made.

NHK? Well, I often wonder if NHK didn't make a mistake allowing sumo back on it's programming so early, but why blame them for Kisenosato?

Sorry could't resist. ;-)

[Andreas21 188]

Kisenosato has the talent not to lose a fight, but just hasn't the technical skills or the physics to score those on top opf the banzuke. I still expect him to be one day good enough to prove his rank, but his promotion was more a matter of racism than of his results.

It was more than a remote chance in the last decades that the Kyokai had banned all foreigners/foreign-born wrestlers from Sumo. It's Japan's taxpayers money mostly, it is no international sport, so they could have made it.

So if that were the case, then Kisenosato would rightfully/proudly be Yokozuna, nobody would even question his technical skills or his physics. We would be cheering at his win over Ozeki Toyohibiki (a bout which I really liked in the last basho). He would have possibly ended Kaio's reign years ago and would have dominated Sumo as Hakuho did in the real world.

My point is: it is all relative. Dominance/inferiority is also a matter of being there at the right time at the right place. It is not a property in it's own right.

[Asameshimae 220]

I think even the most jaded fan would admit that foreigners were good for the sport. It isn't being dominated as much by the big white guys as it is by the Mongolian technicians who prove that indeed there is more to it than two fats guys trying to knock each other down.

[Asojima 2,874]

I think even the most jaded fan would admit that foreigners were good for the sport. It isn't being dominated as much by the big white guys as it is by the Mongolian technicians who prove that indeed there is more to it than two fats guys trying to knock each other down.

I find it interesting that the Japanese rikishi are obsessed with forward moving pushme-pullyou sumo while the sport is being dominated by foreign technicians, and the top side of the Kyokai are mostly retired technicians. It does not track.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I saw Hak totally destroy HMF in arm wrestling on a variety program tonight. Looked totally legit.

[Treblemaker 254]

I saw Hak totally destroy HMF in arm wrestling on a variety program tonight. Looked totally legit.

I would not be surprised. Long arms trump short arms in arm wrestling. The best HF could hope to accomplish is holding Hak to a draw. It's all physics.

[sumofan 6]

I am a little hazy on the details because this happened some time ago, but didn't Takamisakari hit Tochiazuma so hard at one point that one of his teeth went flying?

Sumo is brutal and sumo training is brutal. The rituals surrounding everything might by graceful and polite, but that is where it stops.

[sumofan 6]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

A certain respect is expected of the fans as well. There are a number of no no's. If that isn't one, it should be.

I did say 'if'. Honestly, I would never have the guts to say something like that in person. Those guys are more than a bit intimidating.

Still, wouldn't the audience simply equate my comments with those of a gaijin barbarian?

Yes. In all likelihood they would ignore you. I think.

However, most people here would never do such a thing because it would be very bad manners, not because it might lead to an ass kicking.

[Igordemorais 75]

Personally I think that Kisenosato getting henka`d by Baruto and Hakuho was awesome.

Also I don't think that Hakuho henkaing him is perceived as lack of dignity alone, but rather framed in the following terms:

Kisenosato is so rude that he actually manages to make of of the most dignified Yokozunas out there break his hinkaku just to teach him a lesson.