Should Hakuho Retire?

[Masumasumasu 902]

In a way you are right (Masumasumasu)!! He (Y. Hakuho) is trying to find the good way, but are little desperate from time to time. But his dilemma right now are, that he is not doing good in the end of the basho. And that has occur for a wail now, and Hakuho is not find the key to do the right thing to ending and wining the final day 15!! I hope he try harder to find the way to win the forthcoming basho`s and hope he not have (To Many Minds & fears inside). And of course i dont have thoughts to string you up there!! U have a nice day/days to next time. :-) (Dohyo-iri...) (I am not worthy...)

Thank you, sumodrax.

[wanderer 159]

I am rather concerned about Harumafuji's promotion. He is a lighter wrestler, which may mean more injuries for him in order to sustain Yokozuna numbers. So, if he shows poor basho too many times, he may have to retire sooner than Hakuho. Hakuho ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Afrozuna 8]

I concur, it's not as if Hakuho has dropped his level, he is still posting yusho winning numbers. It's just Harumafuji who is on an abnormal level for him right now. The question is can he(HMFJ) mantain it, it will be very hard to win by zensho in future. SO Hakuho looks set to dominate for at least 2 more years

[LeoD 17]

His level has dropped from ridiculous dominance to dominance, still having most wins in 2012.

Btw., the yoks have made it to German SPIEGEL Online:

http://www.spiegel.de/sport/sonst/sumoringer-harumafuji-kaempft-gegen-hakuho-a-857474.html

Edited September 24, 2012 by LeoD

[Jakusotsu 5,739]

I am rather concerned about Harumafuji's promotion. He is a lighter wrestler, which may mean more injuries for him in order to sustain Yokozuna numbers.

As somebody else mentioned already, this argument about "being too light" is just ridiculous if you compare him to Chiyonofuji, who has never been heavier than the current Harumafuji when he stringed together his 31 Makuuchi yusho.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Jakusotsu

[Treblemaker 254]

People. I think you're going about this all wrong.

Hak, in his greatest days, had almost no competition. The then Ozeki group was pitiful and CHiyotaikai and Kaio were on their way out, Osh was never a real challenger, and the rest of the Sanyaku was, to be kind, a rolling group of pastry chefs, well, over their heads. People like Baruto and Kakuryu, Ama, were still developing and were no match for Hakuho then.

What we currently have is a bonified, powerful and quite capable group of Ozekis, and having gotten rid of Olde Stuff, Hak now has legitimate competition. The kind he didn't have since Jan of 2010. He now has to deal with people who can, and will take him down. His whole strategy has changed.

I think what we're seeing now is the Real Hakuho. Not the one who was happy to mop up the semi-pros of the last few years.

The boat isn't sinking. The water level just got higher.

[Asashosakari 18,665]

What we currently have is a bonified, powerful and quite capable group of Ozekis, and having gotten rid of Olde Stuff, Hak now has legitimate competition. The kind he didn't have since Jan of 2010. He now has to deal with people who can, and will take him down. His whole strategy has changed.

I think what we're seeing now is the Real Hakuho. Not the one who was happy to mop up the semi-pros of the last few years.

The boat isn't sinking. The water level just got higher.

Somewhat on-topic for this, a comment by Hakuho's father in Nikkansports: "As the sole yokozuna it was Hakuho's duty to attend many events, which has not left him enough time to do keiko". He believes that with the duties now being shared around, we'll be seeing a Hakuho reemergence. I'm not quite sure I buy that (he is already 27 now and into year 6 as a yokozuna), but it's something to keep in the back of our minds.

[Treblemaker 254]

What we currently have is a bonified, powerful and quite capable group of Ozekis, and having gotten rid of Olde Stuff, Hak now has legitimate competition. The kind he didn't have since Jan of 2010. He now has to deal with people who can, and will take him down. His whole strategy has changed.

I think what we're seeing now is the Real Hakuho. Not the one who was happy to mop up the semi-pros of the last few years.

The boat isn't sinking. The water level just got higher.

Somewhat on-topic for this, a comment by Hakuho's father in Nikkansports: "As the sole yokozuna it was Hakuho's duty to attend many events, which has not left him enough time to do keiko". He believes that with the duties now being shared around, we'll be seeing a Hakuho reemergence. I'm not quite sure I buy that (he is already 27 now and into year 6 as a yokozuna), but it's something to keep in the back of our minds.

I fully expect to see a Hak comeback, and it may come at the expense of new Yok HF.

Having said that, in the coming 12 months, I also expect to see a surge by Kisenosato and Kakuryu. One of them picking up a yusho or two, and joining the Yok ranks, probably Kise. (Reason: While Kakuryu isn't far from becoming a dominant force, I fully believe that the Kyokai would rather rip off one of its collective testicles, rather than nominate yet another Mongolian as Yok before giving the chance to a Native Son.)

[Ruziklao 34]

Having said that, in the coming 12 months, I also expect to see a surge by Kisenosato and Kakuryu. One of them picking up a yusho or two, and joining the Yok ranks, probably Kise. (Reason: While Kakuryu isn't far from becoming a dominant force, I fully believe that the Kyokai would rather rip off one of its collective testicles, rather than nominate yet another Mongolian as Yok before giving the chance to a Native Son.)

I guess this reason is consciously exaggerated. Without back-to-back yusho-level results Kisenosato or anybody else just would not make it. And if by chance Kakuryu manages to do that, I am sure they would just nominate him without any knives involved.

[krindel 671]

Having said that, in the coming 12 months, I also expect to see a surge by Kisenosato and Kakuryu. One of them picking up a yusho or two, and joining the Yok ranks, probably Kise. (Reason: While Kakuryu isn't far from becoming a dominant force, I fully believe that the Kyokai would rather rip off one of its collective testicles, rather than nominate yet another Mongolian as Yok before giving the chance to a Native Son.)

I guess this reason is consciously exaggerated. Without back-to-back yusho-level results Kisenosato or anybody else just would not make it. And if by chance Kakuryu manages to do that, I am sure they would just nominate him without any knives involved.

If (and that's a VERY big if) Kakuryu ever manages back to back yusho, of course he'll be promoted. However, I suspect that for Kisenosato (or Myogiryu, or Jokoryu, or anyone else who comes along and is Japenese with potential), a random yusho (not back to back with anything) plus two consecutive jun-yusho with 13-2 or so should be enough.

What I don't see happening is anyone getting promoted without a yusho, even if that yusho is not part of the tsuna run. What the Kyokai wants even less than not having a Japanese Yokozuna, is having another Futahaguro...

[Doitsuyama 1,173]

What I don't see happening is anyone getting promoted without a yusho, even if that yusho is not part of the tsuna run. What the Kyokai wants even less than not having a Japanese Yokozuna, is having another Futahaguro...

As I see it, the Futahaguro debacle isn't so much that he never had a yusho but that he didn't have the hinkaku (as evidenced in hitting the okamisan which forced him pout of sumo). Sumowise he wasn't worse than Wakanohana III even if he never had a yusho. He averaged almost 12 wins in the seven basho before his promotion which is pretty good (actually he had seven more wins than Harumafuji despite the two zensho).

[krindel 671]

What I don't see happening is anyone getting promoted without a yusho, even if that yusho is not part of the tsuna run. What the Kyokai wants even less than not having a Japanese Yokozuna, is having another Futahaguro...

As I see it, the Futahaguro debacle isn't so much that he never had a yusho but that he didn't have the hinkaku (as evidenced in hitting the okamisan which forced him pout of sumo). Sumowise he wasn't worse than Wakanohana III even if he never had a yusho. He averaged almost 12 wins in the seven basho before his promotion which is pretty good (actually he had seven more wins than Harumafuji despite the two zensho).

Agreed, the reason for his "retirement" was attitude, not performance, no doubt about it. However, he was promoted without a yusho, in the hopes that he would get a few as Yokozuna. He never got them, and the result is that there is now a Yokozuna in the books who never got a yusho. Doesn't look good :-) .

Because of that, I really doubt they'll ever promote anyone without at least one yusho again, no matter his potential.

[Peeter 15]

Futahaguro's sad story: http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1988-01-11/news/8803210309_1_wrestlers-stable-japan-sumo-association

[Andreas21 182]

I would hate to see Hakuho retire. He was great as the challenger to Asa. He was great in his dominance. Only recently he is challenged, Kise figured out how to beat him, Haruma equalled his consistency. I am curious to see how he reacts to the challenge and I am sure he will. Perhaps we already witnessed the beginning of it: more aggression. I guess he is good for 6-12 more yusho.

[Umigame 82]

About the Japanese press reaction... I just found this :

In this article published after day 12, the Yomiuri declared that Hakuho threw away his hinkaku (dignity).

http://www.yomiuri.c...-OYT1T00239.htm

The headline roughly translated says "Ghastly Hakuho Throws Away His Yokozuna Dignity (hinkaku) and Does an Elbow-to-Chin (kachiage) Knockout"

This coming from the largest newspaper in Japan (by some accounts the largest in the entire world), we have to admit Triple Masu is not the only one questioning Hakuho's hinkaku because of the way he won over Myogiryu.

Though personally I think saying "Should he retire?" at this point is wildly overreacting.

[Masumasumasu 902]

About the Japanese press reaction... I just found this :

In this article published after day 12, the Yomiuri declared that Hakuho threw away his hinkaku (dignity).

http://www.yomiuri.c...-OYT1T00239.htm

The headline roughly translated says "Ghastly Hakuho Throws Away His Yokozuna Dignity (hinkaku) and Does an Elbow-to-Chin (kachiage) Knockout"

This coming from the largest newspaper in Japan (by some accounts the largest in the entire world), we have to admit Triple Masu is not the only one questioning Hakuho's hinkaku because of the way he won over Myogiryu.

Though personally I think saying "Should he retire?" at this point is wildly overreacting.

I am not the only one who feels like I do.

On another note, I also don't think that Hakuho should retire despite the fact that his sumo has lately become rather desperate.

Edited September 25, 2012 by Masumasumasu

[botev1921 33]

No, he should not!

[Asashosakari 18,665]

In this article published after day 12, the Yomiuri declared that Hakuho threw away his hinkaku (dignity).

http://www.yomiuri.c...-OYT1T00239.htm

The headline roughly translated says "Ghastly Hakuho Throws Away His Yokozuna Dignity (hinkaku) and Does an Elbow-to-Chin (kachiage) Knockout"

And the next day nobody was talking about it anymore. I like to believe we have somewhat higher standards here on the forum than "crazy headlines that are designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to sell papers". Well, we used to, anyway...

[kuroimori 1,634]

This coming from the largest newspaper in Japan (by some accounts the largest in the entire world)...

... of the largest country in the world as some (of its') readers (still) believe...

So no real surprise about their stance

[Treblemaker 254]

Having said that, in the coming 12 months, I also expect to see a surge by Kisenosato and Kakuryu. One of them picking up a yusho or two, and joining the Yok ranks, probably Kise. (Reason: While Kakuryu isn't far from becoming a dominant force, I fully believe that the Kyokai would rather rip off one of its collective testicles, rather than nominate yet another Mongolian as Yok before giving the chance to a Native Son.)

I guess this reason is consciously exaggerated. Without back-to-back yusho-level results Kisenosato or anybody else just would not make it. And if by chance Kakuryu manages to do that, I am sure they would just nominate him without any knives involved.

One can never tell. Three years ago, few people would have coughed up lots of yen that said Ama would zensho twice, back to back, and become a Yok. I suggest that Kise gets the nod with one yusho and a good second effort.

[Kotoviki 16]

Let's take Harumafuji during current Aki basho as an example. Watch all his bouts during current basho and count how many times he manages to hit with his head the face or chin of his opponent at the tachiai. In most martial art such head strikes are prohibited! Isn't it dangerous? Isn't it intended to hurt and even broke nose, chin or teeth of his opponents? (There are not mouth guards in sumo as far as I know) Isn't there high risk of brain or neck injury with such head strikes? Yet they are perfectly legal in sumo so yes it "isn't really like other contact sports", but it is definitely not more mild or something. Even more - such head-first tachi-ai is considered something to be respected.

FWIW some do wear mouth guards.

[Asameshimae 220]

I do a lot of fast forwarding when I watch the sumo I have recorded and I honestly thought Myogiryu was playing it up when he didn't get up and then was being led around on the dohyo. I felt pretty bad later when I found out he really had been knocked out cold.

[Masumasumasu 902]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

[Tsubame 355]

I guess noone will hear you, but even if someone would hear you, their hinkaku as sumotori would keep them from reacting...

[Asameshimae 220]

I'm going to Fukuoka this November and I was wondering. If I yell 'Henka-ho' at Hakuho when he walks by, will his tsukebito kick my ass? Will I be kicked out of the venue?

A certain respect is expected of the fans as well. There are a number of no no's. If that isn't one, it should be.