Should Hakuho Retire?

[Tsubame 354]

Kintamayama summarizes the whole topic in a very good way! The current yokozuna showed his superiority as he has to do. He did not used illigal techniques or act in a disgraceful manor. Ok, maybe someone personally disliked Hakuho or his behaviour, but officially there are no reasons to complain about Hakuho and so there is no demand for a intai.

[kawika 123]

When can no longer win 12, yes. Today, no.

[sighkingu 0]

What a laughable question!

[Kuroyama 715]

I think some people are not paying attention. Hakuho has been doing this for quite a while. I haven't gone all the way back to check, but I wouldn't be surprised if it's related to his habit of leading with his right shoulder at the tachi-ai. (We all DO notice how he doesn't set himself squarely at the shikiri-sen, right?) I just went back to look at his other bouts this basho, and the previous, and for a spot check Hatsu of last year. Most of the time -- not always, but close to it -- he pulls his right arm back as he goes forward, and then brings it inside for the initial clash. Often he then immediately reaches for the belt, but not always.

If he intends by this to knock out his opponent then it's a remarkably ineffective method because as far as we can tell it has only worked once.

[Treblemaker 254]

Hakuho cannot win anymore without brutal elbow strikes and henkas. He is obviously trying to injure his opponents. What a disgrace.

... And all your other posts to show just how much sumo has changed and how "violent" it has become....

And I really like this one:

You mean, "can't people with whom I disagree be blacklisted?"

If you don't like my posts, ignore them.

Ok, Masu, let's put it this way:

1. Sumo has changed exactly 0% since, say, the 90's/80's70's... Check some of the old vids on YouTube. Any bout, any year, in Japanese or English. The bouts remain the same.Bodies and names and faces change, but essentially thnigs are as they were from years ago.

No more "violent" than Asa hammering a young Osh and knocking him silly (in that rediculous blue mawashi Osh used to wear) or a good old Kaio arm-bar guaranteeed to cause ligament damage (see Toyonoshima), or that weird moron (now banished) who used to slap people's faces until they bled. Sumo is still a noble sport. Get over it.

2, Hakuho would rather poke his eye out with a stick before exhibiting any kind of behaviour that might label him as "Un-Yokozuna-like". He carries himself well, and his bouts are always the Class Act, even the time he pulled a henka. The likelyhood of him coming out of the stall with any deliberate intent to injure ranks right up there with the possibility of you being sent to the Moon on the next flight out of Upper Slodiniavitch. In a slingshot. Wearing pajamas. Get over it.

3. Take it from someone who's had his share of darts/arrows/grenades/napalm thrown his way for comments made, and flame wars fought. People are going to disagree with you. I disagree with you. Frequently and often. People disagreed with me. At one point, I left the Forum for almosty a year. I got over it.

So, sumo hasn't changed in many years. (See old videos on Youtube for evidence.) And HF will become the next Yok, in spite of the fact that you don't like him. And Hak will not retire, just because you don't like him.

And keep making posts like the one above, and people will respond in kind. Get over it.

And get over yourself.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Hakuho is a great yokozuna who has proved himself to be a decent guy many many times. The tachiai in sumo is an extremely violent affair which can occasionally go awry, leading to knockouts and assorted bemusement.

[勝 Katsu 20]

Clearly it is time for the Yokozuna to step down if he's going to do nothing but attempt to knock his opponents out with vicious elbow strikes. Such desperation reminds me of a sickly, wounded animal.

I put in my 2 yen after I've seen the video.

[Treblemaker 254]

Hmmm... Didn't see no vicious nothing in that final bout, where (according to some people) there should have been lots of Hak-ing out of sheer desperation. Nope. Clean and fair and square and with honour and dignity all round.

Guess some theories don't stick to the wall, eh?

[Tsubame 354]

Let us see the question in a more general viewpoint:

Can a single event force a yokozuna to retire? (I do not mentioned or count in "scandals" happening outside from sumo)

What do you think, what is enough? What behaviour or what event could trigger anintai?

[Harry 67]

Ask Asashoryu if punching a nightclub owner is enough...

[Tsubame 354]

As I mentioned, I do not cout in scandals happend outside from sumo. Scandals are an almost clear intai!

The question is which "normal" (read it as non-scandal) action can leed to an intai? Grabbing kenshos with lef hand? Playing football while officially ill? That was not enough...

[ronnie 221]

As I mentioned, I do not cout in scandals happend outside from sumo. Scandals are an almost clear intai!

The question is which "normal" (read it as non-scandal) action can leed to an intai? Grabbing kenshos with lef hand? Playing football while officially ill? That was not enough...

You were a big Asa fan then........................

[Dr.Radical 16]

In answer to the original post: Nah. You've got a really weird hatred for Hakuhou.

[Treblemaker 254]

Let us see the question in a more general viewpoint:

Can a single event force a yokozuna to retire? (I do not mentioned or count in "scandals" happening outside from sumo)

What do you think, what is enough? What behaviour or what event could trigger anintai?

Well, if you should grab the Gyoji by the baitzim... That might not go over too well....

[krindel 671]

I think retirement is not enough. Someone should send him a link to the relevant posts in here to inform him of just how disgraceful he is (since the Japanese crowd and press seem to have failed to notice his disgrace), and then he should commit seppuku immediately.

And none of that Kaishakunin nonsense, either.

[Chisaiyama 11]

What happened to the grace and dignity of sumo? Lately, the basho have been looking more and more like cage matches.

The grace and dignity of sumo as you so poetically put it surrounds it, from the beautiful display of the kesho mawashi during the dohyo-iri, to the ritualistic performance of the Yokozuna's dohyo iri to the brilliant colorful costumes of the gyoji it is all pomp and circumstance. Make no mistake however these men are warriors every bit as much as the Samurai of feudal Japan, they just don't use swords and the results of their contests are rarely, if ever fatal. They are nonetheless warriors and a warrior only has, and should only have one goal, to win. Win using all allowable techniques since this is after all a "civilized" contest there are after all rules involved. None of Hakuho's techniques, or Asashoryu's for that matter were ever illegal. Sometimes the necessity of a particular technique may be questionable by those of us who sit on our duffs hundreds or thousands of miles away and usually time shifted from the action but we weren't there to make the decision that the rikishi have to make in mere seconds. This is a contact sport, a serious, for real, contatct sport between men of incredible size, varying abilities and mentalities and personalities that don't have time to worry about the sense or sensibilities of their audience, either foreign or domestic. Pop yourself a bowl of corn, grab a beverage of choice and sit back and watch it in comfort or if the exhibition of violence is too much for you don't watch it, but for cryin' out loud don't call for a man to give up; his livelihood just for doing his job, and doing it well if i may say so!

Back to the original topic of the thread, Hell No it's not time for Hakuho to retire. I look forward to many years of intense competition between he and Harumafuji. I will also take great pleasure if Myogiryu and/or Jokoryu can live up to their promise and elevate themselves to the Yokozuna level very soon, it's been a long time since it's been crowded at the very top.

[Chisaiyama 11]

I think retirement is not enough. Someone should send him a link to the relevant posts in here to inform him of just how disgraceful he is (since the Japanese crowd and press seem to have failed to notice his disgrace), and then he should commit seppuku immediately.

And none of that Kaishakunin nonsense, either.

Could it be that the crowd and press failed to notice the "disgrace" because there wasn't one? Doing one job, playing by the rules, trying win your match is rarely considered disgraceful. How fickle the people on this forum can be. It hasn't been so very long that everyone was bemoaning how boring sumo was going to be with only the "workman like sumo" of Hakuho, he just didn't hae the flare or the chutpah of Asashoryu. My, my, my how the times have changed.

[krindel 671]

I think retirement is not enough. Someone should send him a link to the relevant posts in here to inform him of just how disgraceful he is (since the Japanese crowd and press seem to have failed to notice his disgrace), and then he should commit seppuku immediately.

And none of that Kaishakunin nonsense, either.

Could it be that the crowd and press failed to notice the "disgrace" because there wasn't one? Doing one job, playing by the rules, trying win your match is rarely considered disgraceful. How fickle the people on this forum can be. It hasn't been so very long that everyone was bemoaning how boring sumo was going to be with only the "workman like sumo" of Hakuho, he just didn't hae the flare or the chutpah of Asashoryu. My, my, my how the times have changed.

Hmmm... I thought the joking nature of my post was clear, but it seems my English failed me :-) . Just to be clear, I think Hakuho is a great Yokozuna, he has no disgrace to apologize for in the current context, and should definitely NOT retire.

[Kuroyama 715]

Hmmm... I thought the joking nature of my post was clear, but it seems my English failed me :-) . Just to be clear, I think Hakuho is a great Yokozuna, he has no disgrace to apologize for in the current context, and should definitely NOT retire.

No, it was clear, and there's nothing wrong with your English.

Edited September 24, 2012 by Kuroyama

[sekihiryu 51]

some of you Johny come latelys who think Hakuho is rough, would have loved Asashoryu. He was a pit bull to Hakuho's German shepard.

He pulled out a pretty nasty harite - open handed slap that was more like an epic boxing hook than a standard slap. Cant find any vids on youtube of this "hook" but it rang the bell of many rikishi. Plenty of bloody noses came from them too.

Rules: pulling his opponent's hair, hitting his opponent with a closed fist, boxing his opponent's ears, choking his opponent (although he may push at the throat), or grabbing his opponent's mawashi in the crotch area

yep, thats about it in the rule book. Hakuho's tachiai doesnt raise any flags, his opponents need to be wary of it and find a counter.

Kotooshu got hit hard here.

he liked to take Takamisakari's head off frequently.

[Chankosan 0]

I think I witnessed the very moment that Hakuho lost his nerve. It was during the soken in May of this year. It was my first soken and I watched Hakuho like an eagle, taking photo after photo. I was shocked at how easily he lost his matches and wondered what that meant for the basho. Sure enough, he started with a loss, and many of his matches looked highly suspect -- I'll just leave it at that. I remember a look he had after one of his three losses in a row in the middle of the basho that was a real deer-in-the-headlights!

His soken came after a strong tournament performance, so I don't know what happened between March and May to erode his confidence, but he has clearly lost his mojo and is doing whatever he can just to hang on. Perhaps it is his age, an injury, domestic troubles, the yaocho scandal, Asashoryu getting kicked out, or him losing his winning streak -- or some combination of them all?

But he shouldn't retire yet -- he is so good and the field is so bad that he can still put together a 14-1 and a 13-2 record when he is on his last legs.

Even bad Hakuho is better than no Hakuho...

[勝 Katsu 20]

Another member was kind enough to send me the 2mgz it took to watch the situation. I played it over several times...slow...fast...whatever.

I'm not a "huzzah Hakuho" fan but I felt that this particular match was circumstantial. He felt the opening, he took it.

I'm not saying Hakuho was "right" but...retirement....censure...NO!

Anyway...Harumafuji...kicked that ass....Justice was done. (Applauding...)

[sumodrax 8]

A answer to this question (Shold Hakuho Retire) is: Yokozuna Hakuho (MÖNKHBAT Davaajargal) are not retire or going to retire, and even have a thought about it. the Yokozuna Hakuho is a very powerful Yokozuna, and rely show the way of a great Yokozuna today. I know he have lost some bout's here and there, and not wining the tournaments for a wail, but in all- he is still the greatest Yokozuna with dignity and greatness. Thank you *L*

[Masumasumasu 902]

A answer to this question (Shold Hakuho Retire) is: Yokozuna Hakuho (MÖNKHBAT Davaajargal) are not retire or going to retire, and even have a thought about it. the Yokozuna Hakuho is a very powerful Yokozuna, and rely show the way of a great Yokozuna today. I know he have lost some bout's here and there, and not wining the tournaments for a wail, but in all- he is still the greatest Yokozuna with dignity and greatness. Thank you *L*

I know that he is powerful but he seems rather desperate, lately. Just my opinion. Please don't string me up!

[sumodrax 8]

In a way you are right (Masumasumasu)!! He (Y. Hakuho) is trying to find the good way, but are little desperate from time to time. But his dilemma right now are, that he is not doing good in the end of the basho. And that has occur for a wail now, and Hakuho is not find the key to do the right thing to ending and wining the final day 15!! I hope he try harder to find the way to win the forthcoming basho`s and hope he not have (To Many Minds & fears inside). And of course i dont have thoughts to string you up there!! U have a nice day/days to next time. :-) (Dohyo-iri...) (I am not worthy...)