Sumoforum needs a new Rijicho

[Rijicho 6]

I am leaving active sumoforum life. Exil is quite busy with his life although he has done his admin stuff without any problems and with admirable accuracy. No wonder as he is one smart human. If Kotoseiya isn't interested in getting sumoforum back under his wings as rijicho, then it will become a problem of sort as it would naturally be better if a Finn would run the show as the company is Finnish and all that. I can pay the yearly expenses if that is a problem as sumoforum had a special spot in my heart.

For now I will give Exil the "rights" to be rijicho. He is doing most of the stuff on forum anyway while I haven't done much anything in a long while. Based on my earlier impressions, he isn't so keen on being the rijicho as such and prefers the admin guru role. In the case that Kotoseiya isn't available, I don't know how the rijicho-aspect will be solved. Otherwise the forum is in good hands with current mods and Exil as the technical back-up person.

Reasons for departure? Total alienation from forum and clearly diminished tolerance. I need sumoU, not sumoforum.

Be well.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

A sad day for us all. A sad day indeed.

[Asashosakari 19,668]

What Moti said. :-D

[ilovesumo 12]

Understand....

waiting for e-mail mate...wrote to you just a few days ago.

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

I know where you're coming from. There's a limit how much Ur mom suxxx Asa's cock lol lol lol any sane person can stand.

I waded through crap for far too long in the end. I'm surprised you went as far as you did. The simplest solution to improve this forum is to get the Sumo is about winning fraternity to move to that other sumo forum, the one populated by the hillbillies. They'd feel themselves comfortable there. Personally I would've banned a lot of people this year, being the choleric I am.

No, I will never again log into a forum administration panel of any kind. Having pure human stupidity thrown weekly at your face is initially somehow interesting in strange, sociological sense but the crap accumulates and I doubt anyone without cow's nerves can take it for long. I suppose one has to be borne a forum administrator to enjoy it.

I'm willing to participate financially as I still feel some responsibility for all this bullshit. The most desirable alternative would probably be to find enough useful fools to take the damn thing away from Finland to somewhere else with nominal web hotel charges and administer it between themselves, possibly in some kind of co

[aderechelsea 125]

i never seem to understand why you take "troll" matters so seriously ... all of you.

anyway ... if that is the reason you decided to depart then i am REALLY sorry. it's a pity to say the least.

If it's not then i am afraid i am to blame too. I sense you needed more conversations on sumo itself and the nature of the fight and you got little response in these topics. The forum got a bit gossipy lately .... too much scandals and too little actual conversation.

I feel sorry because i think i could participate more but i didn't ...

anyway ........

:-D

[Kotoseiya Yuichi 3]

I take trolls seriously as I take sumo seriously. It's simply a personality trait of mine to have a low threshold for repeated ignorance and outright stupidity. It's one thing to be unaware of the facts once you arrive here for the first time but if you keep spewing Yokozuna is above law nonsense even after several people far ahead of you in sumo expertise (no, I don't belong to this group except perhaps rarely) have told you how these things actually work, what else can I deem you to be if not an ignoramus and a thick-headed at that? (This, naturally, was written in a general sense.) I can't speak on Kaikitsune's behalf here, but I suppose his feelings on the subject are more or less the same as mine. Perhaps it's in the water here.

No need for you, Adere, to feel sorry for anything. Although your avatar is kind of... how to put this diplomatically...? :-D

Edited December 19, 2007 by Kotoseiya Yuichi

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

I don't know how anyone else feels about it, especially the man himself, but Kintamayama-san is exactly the sort to be a good Rijicho.

[Jonosuke 28]

From time to time I too feel I really get burned out with all that stuff Dorji this or that as well. As a matter of fact I basically left the Mailing List now because of that reason.

I hardly read much of what has gone on there or here so actually I think I should be tending my Intai notice as a mod as well. I feel for Mikko but I am around here because of an idea like Kotoseiya is proposing.

For me right now I have sumo history to delve into it as well as reading up on Riemann zeta function and Poincar

[Itachi 396]

I don't know how anyone else feels about it, especially the man himself, but Kintamayama-san is exactly the sort to be a good Rijicho.

Seconded.

I'm with Adere on this. If it we me I would just ban rather than run.

Sure, I'd rather snip off the uncivil tongues than lose the gifted ones.

[kaiguma 0]

I third the Moti-on.

And I fourth that eMoti-on.

Moti for Rijicho because he won't take it too seriously when he shouldn't yet seriously enough when he should.

As for our current rijicho, this is just one man's insight since he didn't care to go all the way in himself, and now others question his decision.

KKM is a fair person by nature. So he doesn't want to ban anyone unless the most serious rules are obviously broken. Yet he knows his own weakness and even says he is too intolerant. It's an internal conflict. He wishes to either show the ignoramuses their own ignorance and say "wake up!" or to just play with their heads if they are truly incapable of good reasoning. As Kotoseiya says, it is interesting in a strange sociological sense, etc.

So one result was troll-baiting which in general was misunderstood and even made the current flamewars worse. Unsubtle minds even thought he was genuinely classist/racist in his mentality.

Then the trolls became quiet awhile and now coming out of the woodwork again he is thinking, "What the Hell? What now?" Last time I tried something out of desperation and it ultimately had no affect. There's no way for me to better this situation, knowing myself for who I am.

Am I close?

[Kaikitsune Makoto 209]

My withdrawal is perhaps a sum of many things. Detailed analysis is impossible as I myself am not aware of all the motives I have or the reasons why I feel more and more annoyed on forum. Kotoseiya is a purist in his own way while I am in my way. He has that tendency to attack strongly and see things rather black and white when he disapproves something. Hence it certainly isn't a surprise he would never want an admin role again. He is using words like "this bullshit" and earlier cursed forum down to devil's anus where light undoubtedly is scarce. I have always been and tried to be tolerant on every aspect of life and similar attitude I had for a long time on sumoforum too. Whereas off-sumoforum I don't recognize any alterations in my general view on stuff, on sumoforum I feel downright despise and loath towards some members and their posts/attitudes. This is a quite new phenomenon in this sense. I don't want to be this angry as it does nothing good to me. Sumoforum has plenty of great discussions and very interesting personalities and I would never call sumoforum "bullshit" even if there was 100 idiots of major degree. Just like I would never fall out of love off sumo no matter if all bouts in the history of sumo would have been yaocho. There would still be the concept left, the purity and enticing aspect of the details of sumo.

Sure it would have been easy to just ban trolls and non-trolls who are just plainly irritating but that would have been way too easy solution and there has been members who "should" have been kicked out at some point but who were allowed to stay and since then have become more fruitful contributors.

One reason may be that too much information is sometimes too much information. While it is naiive to regress into "not in sight, not in mind" kind of thinking, the stupidity and ridiculousness of Kyokai's actions in many recent phenomena is simply so amazingly dumb-striking that it feels like an insult to the sumo I love. But like Akebono said it is not up to outsiders to determine anything in Kyokai but to just accept and adjust. Still, reading the tragicomedy in recent sumo reporting by Japanese press and Kyokai's actions/statements on various issues, is very depressive. There has been NOTHING good coming from Kyokai in ages, the idiots like Rijicho and Takasago oyakata just look more and more ridiculous and downright backward that is pains me. Where the hell is the new wave of something sensible in Kyokai? Where are the young oyakata who could influence more behind the scenes? What is wrong with his whole Kyokai now? They know best..maybe. But reading the news just makes me sad nowadays. Sumo is way too good a thing to be raped like this.

There isn't much more beautiful thing than a half-naked young sandanme rikishi (well I could think of more beautiful sights but relatively speaking) waking up at 5am in his chosen way of life doing keiko like no tomorrow, gaining the strength, the feel of dohyo and lead a simple life pursuing his own goals. It is like a bloody single rice harvester in some mountain valley eating his own rice and looking at sunset but as that isn't visible to public like sumo is, it is silently beautiful.

Japan has many oddities and strange fixations like all countries do in their own way. In Japan this theatretical apologizing and fussing over the fact that nobody can lose face and so on can make life very difficult indeed. As much as I am into Japanese culture and embrace the good points, in these recent sumo events somehow the less flattering side takes over. Damn you Kyokai. You are truly not working on behalf of your entity, the SumoU.

I am done with this. Will not log in as Kaikitsune anymore, will not do administratory actions as Rijicho. I will enjoy sumo my own way and will not make any compromises anymore. Long live sumo, long live sumoforum. Latter can live without me. Former can too but I won't let it.

Aderechelsea is partly correct about the fact that there are very few people who enjoy sumo the same way I do. It can be a bit lonely sometimes in that sense but it is understandable. Admittedly, the fact that Hoshihikari's sumo didn't rise more discussions is ODD to say the least and finally made me realise world is different from mine in sumo. One of the most visually and technically revolutionary moments in the history of 2000s and relative silence. It is not the damn results, it is the uniqueness of his sumo. In my biased thinking, that really opened my eyes fully to the fact that I am a lone wolf in this. To me that was the ultimate moment in 2007, more inspiring than any yusho bout, any riot, any controversy. In that Mongolian one sees why sumo can be the most superb sport one can think. It is nobody's fault that they are not like me in this but it is like watching Halley's comet (which appears every 70 years or so) and getting all excited about the historical event and then the majority of people just say "oh cool" and don't see the fact that history is being made. Bad example as Halley is no history but Hoshihikari is and his sumoU is like Halley's comet. It is also true that I need noone to discuss with me about stuff like that as I analyze his sumo to the bottom anyway. Sometimes some extra angle would have been nice but shouganai.

Shouganai fits here perfectly as a single word to describe the situation. I will continue paying sumoforum fees. Will not let it die and the yearly expenses are not that much. Wish sumoforum will flourish and there would be someone willing to act as Rijicho. Kintamayama is much less tolerant than I ever was. He is polite in his arguments but inside he burns and wishes to ban people like no tomorrow. If he wants to become Rijicho, he can certainly become Rijicho but if he wants to become Rijicho, I am as surprised as I would have been if Kotoseiya accepted forum lead once again.

Discuss in this thread if there is some new Rijicho candidate around and if someone wants that role. I won't vanish from forum for good and will appear as a guest at times, especially until the Rijicho-problem is solved some way. And who knows, maybe I come back in time but now it sure doesn't feel like that. This decision isn't done in a spur of moment but within many months so no erratic departure syndrome in process here.

[Kintamayama 45,530]

Kintamayama is much less tolerant than I ever was. He is polite in his arguments but inside he burns and wishes to ban people like no tomorrow. If he wants to become Rijicho, he can certainly become Rijicho but if he wants to become Rijicho, I am as surprised as I would have been if Kotoseiya accepted forum lead once again.

I'd like to thank those of you who brought up my name. But as Kaikitsune (who knows me better than anyone..) has said, I am much too impulsive and non-tolerant. I was once a moderator but asked to be relieved of my duties as I just couldn't handle it, so I will not make a good rijicho. I am way too close to and emotional about Sumo. There are too many people here with "bad blood" between us. I moderate 4 other forums with ease, but I am not emotionally involved in any of them, so it's much easier. I could think offhand of at least 3 members who could do a great job, lead by Exit, but it has to come from them-I don't think he/she has to have the greatest Sumo knowledge in the world, but if her/his heart was into it and the forum is dear to them (at least as it is for Kaikitsune) they'd be damn successful. It's not like we have 45 trolls a day. Relatively speaking, at the end of the day, we've had a smooth ride so far.

Since we need a rijicho, I'd like to recommend that the team of moderators continue as a group of rijicho, and any decision be made by the majority.

It seems to me the best solution for now, unless someone steps up and says "ME!! ME!!'

I'd love to see that happen..

Edited December 20, 2007 by Kintamayama

[philafuji 1]

First choice Kintamayama

If he is unable to do it then I offer up Nishinoshima.

As for the numerous people who are leaving the SF, who have extream knowledge of sumo I am sorry and at the same time angry.

You people are a large part of why the forum, in most cases is so informative.

To leave us, who depend on you grasp of sume, you do the rest of us dishonor.

Many of us have signed up for the forum for these very reasons.

A suggestion if I might: Don't leave please. Possibly the new Admin.

will use the remove button for the hair brain postings they make.

I do not wish to be left out in the cold due to the abscence of knowledge to be left only with the BS that goes on here at times.

Please rethink you decision.

[Asashosakari 19,668]

It's tempting for me to offer myself up as rijicho candidate because that would probably send a bunch of the "wrong" people fleeing in terror and disgust, but I suppose that wouldn't do a hell of a lot for the forum and its future stability, given that I'm in pretty much the same situation as Moti as far as "too much bad blood" goes. And as much as I'm beyond-annoyed by certain members sometimes, I don't favour any ideological cleansing of the forum. So...

Since we need a rijicho, I'd like to recommend that the team of moderators continue as a group of rijicho, and any decision be made by the majority.

It seems to me the best solution for now, unless someone steps up and says "ME!! ME!!'

I'd be in favour of that option, too.

[ragerkawa 0]

Perhaps it would be helpful if someone briefly outlined the duties and responsibilities, and gave an idea of the time involved?

Cheers

ragerkawa

[philafuji 1]

It's tempting for me to offer myself up as rijicho candidate because that would probably send a bunch of the "wrong" people fleeing in terror and disgust, but I suppose that wouldn't do a hell of a lot for the forum and its future stability, given that I'm in pretty much the same situation as Moti as far as "too much bad blood" goes. And as much as I'm beyond-annoyed by certain members sometimes, I don't favour any ideological cleansing of the forum. So...

Since we need a rijicho, I'd like to recommend that the team of moderators continue as a group of rijicho, and any decision be made by the majority.

It seems to me the best solution for now, unless someone steps up and says "ME!! ME!!'

I'd be in favour of that option, too.

You would be an excellent choice also. Maybe just think about it. You can always replace bad blood with new.

[Jakusotsu 6,050]

Sad to see Kaikitsune go. I always enjoyed his posts.

Since we need a rijicho, I'd like to recommend that the team of moderators continue as a group of rijicho, and any decision be made by the majority.

Thirded. The mods are doing a fine job, and I'd welcome any or all of them as new CEO.

[Mark Buckton 1]

Whilst trawlers and sardines may be too tricky for SF - and that one doesn't actually fit anyway, I will compare sumo and thus sumo forum to a service station or country pub in England. (although most nations will have similar establishments where the following applies)

The same pub / highway / motorway service station attacts the same passers-by and locals many many times but also opens its doors to one-off tourist types, those in the area for a limited period on business and those expressing a love of the food / drink on offer who rush back a couple of times for their dose but then eventually grow tired of the distances involved, their lack of real contact with the local community and the effort needed to partake. They fade away and return whence they came.

There are those sitting quietly in corners nursing a steaming cup of tea or a pint of bitter, and those involved in noisy conversations in the middle of the cafe / bar - those on frappucino and cocktails. Oftentimes verbal communication is not necessary, for the repeaters / long timers know who they are and in their own way respect each other.

The tourists are smiled at, nodded at as they leave and express thanks for their welcome but, in the end, rarely stay for long.

And the world of sumo moves on - as does life.

In this regard, with Mikko's departure from SF, the folk left behind will simply carry the can. There is no immediate need for a 'name' to fill the vacant slot for the simple reason that as soon as the scuffles break out following the spilling of a beer or knocking over of a hot coffee onto a pair of spotless trousers - the regulars not directly involved will step in and separate the battlers. That some are mods will work just fine - no Rijicho needed.

Gripes will arise when long timers stand beside long timers and newbies demand (unearned) equality but most here will just say - tough!

Sumo, like most forms of 'acceptance' is about time - and being worn by the sand (who will pick that one up?) Sumo is about paying your dues and doing your time to earn the T-shirt.

[Yubiquitoyama 4]

I'm really sad to see you go. I do understand you position though, and I hope this will turn out to be the right decision for you.

Best regards

Yubiquitoyama

[Johnofuji 232]

Thirded. The mods are doing a fine job, and I'd welcome any or all of them as new CEO.

Do I still get my secret room?

So thats why you bought all that red rope,extra large schoolgirl outfits and the fluffy handcuffs in Thailand.Not to mention the peanut dispenser and mirror for the elephants.

[sekihiryu 51]

sad to see you go mate, KM your posts ranging from the quirky to the insightful will be missed.

If Sumo was poker I would call your Hoshihikari hand and raise you because I think

you are over-hyping the kid, his sumo is peculiar but hardly spectacular and doesn't leap out as phenomenal to most of us, he hasn't been tested by anyone good yet , if he waltzes through makuuchi with a double digits for his first 2 -3 tournaments then we well all look back at what you saw long before the rest of us opened our eyes.

He is another Ama at best in my book - but we will see.

You are a passionate and analyse microscopically at the extreme - naturally this makes you a lone wolf in this regard.

Sayonara.

Kintamayama is a great forum member but i agree with him he wouldnt make a good Chief.

Doitsuyama has his head screwed on pretty tight and is calm and reasonable, he would be a good candidate.

But actually I dont think there really needs to be one Richijo, the current mods could share the role.

[sekihiryu 51]

I reached my sumo nadir during the May tournament when bickering on the mailing list and in real life had worn me down. I think the last two tournaments I mentally disengaged from (although it's hard to get away from sumo when you live in Ryogoku). This year hasn't been great for sumo to put it mildly. However being in Thailand with all the other amateur rikishi reignited my passion and I've enjoyed the couple of keiko sessions I've watched recently.

New year and new start. I'm looking forward to Hatsu basho.

I know what you mean mate, I was burned out by sumo this year and hit a low mid year, It was the crappiest year of sumo yet for me for so many reasons.

[Asashosakari 19,668]

I have a few thoughts about this that I'm too lazy to type but I think one thing that might have not have helped Rijicho is that (in my opinion) in the last six months only two people have joined the forum that contribute in any meaningful way. They are Washuyama and Kuroyama.

I think that's a bit harsh. I agree with the larger point, but looking through the last half year of signups I do spot another half-dozen or so members who seem to be regular readers and are making worthwhile contributions, they're just relatively low-volume posters. It's a general trend though...Randomitsuki and I were discussing the "no fresh blood" phenomenon in terms of sumo games a little while ago where it has been, if anything, even more pronounced.

And elsewhere...well, the SML has a whole 'nother set of problems in addition to the lack of new members. And Sumotalk, for all the readership the main site attracts, still gets surprisingly little activity on its forum. (That's not meant as a dig; I'm genuinely surprised that it's like that...I'd figured the "typical" Sumotalk reader would be fairly opinionated and would jump at the chance to contribute to a forum, and that they just weren't going to do it here on ours.) Maybe it's just the severe lack of positive stories in ozumo right now, I dunno.

I reached my sumo nadir during the May tournament when bickering on the mailing list and in real life had worn me down. I think the last two tournaments I mentally disengaged from (although it's hard to get away from sumo when you live in Ryogoku). This year hasn't been great for sumo to put it mildly. However being in Thailand with all the other amateur rikishi reignited my passion and I've enjoyed the couple of keiko sessions I've watched recently.

Yes, it certainly helps to be interested in aspects of sumo that aren't tainted by any current scandals. Of course most fans aren't that geeky and are primarily concerned with what goes on at the top of ozumo (again, not meant as a dig), and that's a bit difficult to maintain if that's exactly where the scandals are hitting...

Edited December 21, 2007 by Asashosakari

[higginbotham 0]

As to Hoshihikari, his style called my attention as Hakuba's did, but I should agree he has had an interesting but not fantastic career; people need to see him for longer to say something more accurate and avoid precipitancy.

Maybe Kaikitsune Makoto is doing it because he thinks it should have been done by someone else in another place... it is symbolic in a fashion

let's see...

Edited December 21, 2007 by higginbotham