Hokuseiho Out- Hakuho Demoted - Miyagino-beya Closing

[Ripe 74]

A question: who owns the building where Miyagino stable was located before shutting down?

[RabidJohn 1,943]

Er, didn't Hokuseiho happen on Ishiura's watch while Miyagino was swanning off to 'engagements'?

[Reonito 1,613]

8 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Asakayama Oyakata (ex- KaioU) reported, "We have been talking about reopening Miyagino beya since the January basho of this year. In the midst of this, as Isegahama Oyakata is retiring and he will be replaced from the July basho, Chairman Hakkaku instructed us to 'have them looked after at Asakayama beya from now on, and taking into account the preparation period, consider returning him his heya after the November basho.' I explained this to Miyagino and tried to dissuade him on several occasions, but Miyagino expressed his intention to retire."

Isegahama Oyakata reported, "I tried to persuade Miyagino many times to stay, telling him to be patient a little longer since the stable will reopen soon, but he was adamant.

Assuming this was their actual firm intent, and not just a way to keep him dangling, it seems like if he had been really committed to a long-term future as oyakata, waiting till November shouldn't have been a dealbreaker. I know his pride is strong, but leaving would seem like cutting off your nose to spite your face. 

[Asashosakari 19,941]

18 minutes ago, Ripe said:

A question: who owns the building where Miyagino stable was located before shutting down?

Ex-Takamiyama, it's the location where Azumazeki-beya was housed before he turned 65. Hakuho was renting it as a stopgap between the previous Miyagiyo-beya which had become too small, and whatever plans there were for a new Hakuho-owned Miyagino mega-building (seemingly no construction had actually taken place by the time the Hokuseiho thing went down).

[Asashosakari 19,941]

1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

If they were really interested in having the heya separate soon, they could have Ishiura take over the current Isegahama and have Terunofuji branch out with everyone but the Miyagino guys next year.

I'm sorry, but that makes no sense at all. Heya have histories attached to them, they're not just shell companies to facilitate asset transfers.

[Fashiritētā 195]

3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Houshouryuu has already been asked nudge nudge wink wink to go easy on the stare-downs.

Yeah, i figure they gave him Yokozuna now, so it will be easier to get rid of him if he starts anything.

 

[Octofuji 387]

2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

Takarafuji (who has enough Makuuchi basho to branch out) could theoretically take on the Miyagino rikishi when/if he were to branch out

I don't see it, he seems too shy and retiring. (Or possibly too shy and not retiring enough...)

But then again every one of my expectations about this situation have been confounded, and this weekend has just been bizarre, especially seeing a grinning Hokuseiho popping up next to a willowy Kyokutaisei. It feels as if anything might happen next.

[Kaminariyuki 519]

I do hate to see Miyagino (former Hakuho) leaving. Not only was he awesome to watch when he was a rikishi, but at that time he clearly demonstrated his extraordinary teaching and mentoring abilities. This, evidenced by the success of his heya-mates during the final years of the former Miyagino oyakata, Ishiura and Enhos' success, particularly, but others, as well. In those years that I first fell in love with sumo, there was no question that Hakuho's heart was deeply rooted in the dohyo, even if it was not classically expected yokozuna behavior on many occasions within the tawara. I fear he was drawn off track by business associates and folks of questionable influence, but that's only a guess. 

He might not vibe with the Japanese ideal, but he was great fun to watch. As much as Ura, he was good for surprises, and nobody was tougher at the edge of the ring. Strength and speed unequaled dexterity, cunning, usually a ruthless and brutal drive to win. Otani (different sport, sorry) knows this same drive but maybe with a little more decorum, and we'll see how the new yokozuna, a guy with the clear potential for dai-yokozuna status, will fare, record and behavior-wise. 

I only met Hakuho once, and was truly privileged to share a meal and conversation with the GOAT. He was engaging, humorous and fun to talk with. Not many folks from my home country don't even know who he is/was, of course, but I can't help showing the photos of us together to any Japanese folks I meet who have interest in sumo.

No matter anything else, and no matter any of his flaws, I liked the guy. Well, that's not past tense, I reckon.

He might not be Japanese enough, but he's still the GOAT, and sumo suffers from his departure, IMO.

 

Edited June 2 by Kaminariyuki
left out a word by mistake

[WAKATAKE 2,732]

Surprise surprise. Chris Sumo is calling for Hakuho’s Allie’s to “stand up” to the evil JSA

[rokudenashi 336]

I just realised that a side effect of this whole debacle is that Ochil may finally be able to make his pro debut. How many years has he been staying at Isegahama in an unofficial capacity now?

[Reonito 1,613]

We've probably had enough takes, but one that occurred to me is, why would Hakuho want the job of stable master? It seems like a lot of work and highly constraining on other activities, and it's not like he needs the salary. For someone like ex-Goeido, this is likely by far the best career path available, but not for someone like Hakuho. I'm actually not sure how Nishonoseki manages to combine the duties with everything else he has on his plate—presumably through having enough good assistant coaches and other stuff?

[Reonito 1,613]

Also, apparently his getting involved in a new sumo organization isn't just idle chatter on this forum.

[Asashosakari 19,941]

Including the "sumo should be in the Olympics" delusion. This will produce more than a few popcorn moments if it actually comes anywhere near realization. (Too soon to say, "Let's hope Hokuseiho will be one of its featured attractions"?)

Edited June 2 by Asashosakari

[Katooshu 3,416]

1 hour ago, rokudenashi said:

I just realised that a side effect of this whole debacle is that Ochil may finally be able to make his pro debut. How many years has he been staying at Isegahama in an unofficial capacity now?

The problem is now there is no possibility of Miyagino branching out, taking Seihakuho with him, and opening the position at Isegahama for Ochil. 

And I think it's pretty clear that Teru is more interested in Ochil than Seihakuho, so it may get pretty uncomfortable at Isegahama for the latter. Ochil, not being part of the JSA, could in theory go anywhere that would take him, but I doubt Terunofuji would let him go like that.

Edited June 2 by Katooshu

[Asashosakari 19,941]

4 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

The problem is now there is no possibility of Miyagino branching out, taking Seihakuho with him, and opening the position at Isegahama for Ochil. 

And I think it's pretty clear that Teru is more interested in Ochil than Seihakuho, so it may get pretty uncomfortable at Isegahama for the latter. Ochil, not being part of the JSA, could in theory go anywhere that would take him, but I doubt Terunofuji would let him go like that.

IMHO, it's only a problem if somebody wants to make it one. Considering that Ochirsaikhan was (apparently) accepted officially for kenshu status basically the moment that Terunofuji had retired, it doesn't look to me as though Seihakuho's presence has been treated as a strict blocking condition to begin with.* And one could easily make the case that he's not truly an Isegahama-beya member at all; he's still just there under caretakership with the other Miyagino guys. If they continue that polite fiction until Ochir has debuted, a subsequent "proper" merger of Isegahama and Miyagino would just be bringing in Seihakuho as an additional foreigner.

* I don't think we've ever heard anything official about how the Kyokai sees these guys while they're under apprenticeship, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ochir is actually considered a member of Isegahama-beya at this very moment already for the purposes of the foreigner quota. Doing it differently would leave some undesirable loopholes, for instance an enterprising shisho could recruit multiple desperate foreigners at once, put them all on kenshu and then just retain the most promising one at the end of the six months.

[Kaninoyama 1,866]

Don't think I've seen it mentioned here, but Hakuho released a statement to the effect that he plans on continuing to work to grow the sport of sumo from a position outside of the Kyokai.

What that means exactly I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Chartorenji 243]

Hakuho could just run his Sumo league (with blackjack and hookers) during even months right? Or would the JSA block any network from even discussing it with him?

[Reonito 1,613]

13 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

Don't think I've seen it mentioned here, but Hakuho released a statement to the effect that he plans on continuing to work to grow the sport of sumo from a position outside of the Kyokai.

What that means exactly I guess we'll have to wait and see.

This? https://hochi.news/articles/20250602-OHT1T51256.html?page=1

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

44 minutes ago, Reonito said:

This? https://hochi.news/articles/20250602-OHT1T51256.html?page=1

S.U.M.O

[Yamanashi 3,988]

2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Including the "sumo should be in the Olympics" delusion. This will produce more than a few popcorn moments if it actually comes anywhere near realization. (Too soon to say, "Let's hope Hokuseiho will be one of its featured attractions"?)

The way things are going, I guess my dream of an MMA match between ex_Hokuseiho and ex-Takanofuji might come true!

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

59 minutes ago, Chartorenji said:

with blackjack and hookers

With pachinko and geisha! After all, sumo is all about Japanese traditions. 

[Bunbukuchagama 827]

7 hours ago, Kamitsuumi said:

Ishiura can reestablish the Miyagino stable without meeting the basho requirements for a standard branch-out, with the precendent being Kasugayama stable (reestablished as Nakagawa stable). However, it is doubtful whether he would otherwise be approved.

Is there really a need to revive the heya now? It seems Hakuho was the only reason for it to happen.

[Jakusotsu 6,188]

14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

That's only a problem of really dai-yokozuna (20 yusho or more), the others are all modest 

There might be a psychological correlation: you won't become exceptional by modesty alone.

And let's face it: having to deal with a board of superiors post-intai who have all been tremendously inferior on the dohyo doesn't comply with the mindset required to win 20 yusho.

Edited June 3 by Jakusotsu

[Kintamayama 45,974]

Article speculating on ex-Hakuhou's future:

What will Miyagino Oyakata do after he retires from the Kyokai? Since he will no longer be an oyakata, he will be active under his real name, Hakuhou Shou. Given his overwhelming achievements and fame, he will have no trouble making a living. He has many supporters. There is a possibility that he will become a successful businessman, like Asashouryuu and Harumafuji. One concrete plan that has been discussed is to expand the Hakuhou Cup, a sumo tournament for children. Since he will no longer be a member of the Kyokai, the rental fees for holding the tournament at the Ryogoku Kokugikan will increase, making it less flexible. However, he says he has plans to expand even further. In the future, he also has plans to create a separate sumo organization. He will start by creating an amateur sumo organization, and in the future, will grow it into a global organization. Depending on how things go, there is also a plan to transfer rikishi who have entered Miyagino beya. Although Miyagino Oyakata will leave the professional sumo world, he hopes to be involved in sumo in some way.

 

[John Gunning 3,698]

My two cents on Hakuho leaving